What is the purpose for injection...

dougcrann

...for arguments sale...a brisket? 
Pardon the ignorant question. I made a brisket on our Reverse Flow today. Personal best. Was juicy. Tender. Killer smoke ring. Was a "select" cut. 
But as good as it was it was also somewhat bland. Part of the problem is my taste buds. I had a very severe case of chronic sinusitis.  Was a recurring problem for years. Lived on antibiotics, in a 24 month period for 18 months. 
Thanks for any and all input...

SGH

What is the purpose of injecting a brisket you ask. Well, there are a few different reasons but the main one being to add a specific flavor profile. A good example being a competition cook. 
Second, and to a lesser degree, to add moisture. There are a few other reasons that comes right to mind, but they really don't apply to the home cook so their mention is not warranted. 

gmac

SGH said:

There are a few other reasons that comes right to mind, but they really don't apply to the home cook so their mention is not warranted. 

@SGH Now I'm curious...

gerhardk

Cook to 200F is there really any extra moisture left from injection?

Gerhard

gerhardk

@gmac so was Friday busy with motorcycles?

Gerhard

bhedges1987

I used to do it because it was supposed to add extra flavor and keep moisture in. I never noticed. An old wives tale

plus it's too difficult 

dougcrann

Keep in mind I just used brisket as an example. Only things I find flavorful are things like pulled pork/beef...mix rub in once it is shredded. Don't mind burgers...add Spice to the patties as they are formed. 

YukonRon

I have done it before and I have found it does make a difference in my cooks for brisket. I inject at 160F prior to the wrap. No complaints from anyone on flavor, texture, or appearance.
It is an added step, but no more difficult than anything else, or at least, in the way I do it.
What is 5 minutes work on a lonslo?
I am certainly not an expert, as many on here are, but, it does add some moisture and a bit more flavor, to the cook.
I use a mixture of garlic juice, onion juice and beef broth. It is pretty good.

dougcrann

@YukonRon....Garlic juice? Onion juice?

smokeyw

gerhardk said:

Cook to 200F is there really any extra moisture left from injection?

Gerhard

Most commercial injections contain phosphates which make meat retain moisture. It's not the actual moisture you inject into the meat.

Focker

Not good if you're looking to inject after a personal best.

I use injection for brining.  Speeds up the process, while keeping the poultry skin dry.  5% pump is what I have settled on.  Sometimes I add a little sugar.

fishlessman

i like injecting sometimes, but i inject in the egg when the meat is 180 internal. been doing it with butts for along time with a simple vinegar sauce and it works well with brisket with a simple broth. with the butts it gives more a whole hog cook flavor, with the brisket you get more beef taste and some needed salt

YukonRon

dougcrann said:

@YukonRon....Garlic juice? Onion juice?

Yeah, you can find these in small 4 oz bottles. 2 parts beef broth, 1 part onion juice, 1 part garlic juice. Still playing with the ratios, but, so far, the flavor is delicious. Still working on the correct smoke profile for a good soft seer and savory combination. So far 60% Cherry and 40% sugar maple is my last try, it was very good. Still goofing around with that as well.

westernbbq

Watching bbq pitmasters this weekend and saw them injecting beef broth with secret seasoning blends.   What struck me was how much injection liquid spilled back out

I tried injecting pork shoulder once with pineapple juice and the only differenve was that i had a bigger mess to clean, had to exercise extra effort and ended up with a shoulder that tasted no different than an injected one....

fishlessman

westernbbq said:

Watching bbq pitmasters this weekend and saw them injecting beef broth with secret seasoning blends.   What struck me was how much injection liquid spilled back out

I tried injecting pork shoulder once with pineapple juice and the only differenve was that i had a bigger mess to clean, had to exercise extra effort and ended up with a shoulder that tasted no different than an injected one....

most stays in at 180 internal, makes a mess when cold

gmac

@gerhardk I am sure it was. We are far enough away that we don't not see too much traffic but I am sure there were thousands of bikes down there. 

nhk19

bhedges1987 said:

I used to do it because it was supposed to add extra flavor and keep moisture in. I never noticed. An old wives tale

plus it's too difficult 

This makes it super easy!  Watch the video.
https://h2qshop.com/collections/barbecue-equipment/products/killer-hogs-bdi-meat-injector

lousubcap

If you are cold injecting, just wrap the target meat in a plastic wrap and then inject thru the wrap.  Confines the stray shots and easy clean-up.  FWIW-

smokeyw

westernbbq said:

Watching bbq pitmasters this weekend and saw them injecting beef broth with secret seasoning blends.   What struck me was how much injection liquid spilled back out

I tried injecting pork shoulder once with pineapple juice and the only differenve was that i had a bigger mess to clean, had to exercise extra effort and ended up with a shoulder that tasted no different than an injected one....

Some does come out. However, a lot stays in as well. What they don't usually tell you on Pitmasters is that the main thing being injected is phosphates to make the meat retain moisture. There are some seasonings in there as well.

westernbbq

And how much liquid is actually injected into the meat?.  It seems to me that there isnt much room inside the meat for the injection liquid  so most of it squirts back out and injecting some liquid would result in the displacement of meat, myoglobin, water or?   

i got rid of all my injection equipment as i stopped using it after a lone attempt.  The original barbecuers didnt use it and injection has risen in popularity because the bbq contests have less to do with producing great barbecue than they do with producing a standard that appeals to the judges.   To me, this takes the fun out of barbecuing.  It is supposed to be enjoyable, relaxing and a lot of fun.  Maybe injections help enhance the experience but for me, i found it unecessary.  Pork shoulder and beef brisket have plenty of connective tissue, water in the muscle fibers and fat to ensure a juicy, flavorful finished smoked end result when cooked properly.    

It is kind of like football, no matter how fancy you get, like throwing interceptable slant passes at the goal line in the super bowl when you have one of the best runningbacks in the league, you risk throwing the game away.   Just dont ask pete carroll.   Football is blocking and tackling.   

Barbecuing is low and slow cooking...and the BGE makes doing this type of cooking the most enjoyable one can eggsperience!

smokeyw

westernbbq said:

And how much liquid is actually injected into the meat?.  It seems to me that there isnt much room inside the meat for the injection liquid  so most of it squirts back out and injecting some liquid would result in the displacement of meat, myoglobin, water or?   

i got rid of all my injection equipment as i stopped using it after a lone attempt.  The original barbecuers didnt use it and injection has risen in popularity because the bbq contests have less to do with producing great barbecue than they do with producing a standard that appeals to the judges.   To me, this takes the fun out of barbecuing.  It is supposed to be enjoyable, relaxing and a lot of fun.  Maybe injections help enhance the experience but for me, i found it unecessary.  Pork shoulder and beef brisket have plenty of connective tissue, water in the muscle fibers and fat to ensure a juicy, flavorful finished smoked end result when cooked properly.    

It is kind of like football, no matter how fancy you get, like throwing interceptable slant passes at the goal line in the super bowl when you have one of the best runningbacks in the league, you risk throwing the game away.   Just dont ask pete carroll.   Football is blocking and tackling.   

Barbecuing is low and slow cooking...and the BGE makes doing this type of cooking the most enjoyable one can eggsperience!

I typically inject about 2 cups of liquid into a butt or a brisket about 6 to 8 hours prior to putting in the smoker. About 1 1/2 cups probably stay in there. You can actually see the meat swell up as you inject it. If doesn't matter if it cooks out, it has done it's job by then.

Just FYI, I don't inject at home nor do I season the same way at home. I always inject butts and brisket in competition because I think it makes a difference and I am there to win.

I always look forward to cooking at home on the egg in a much simpler environment.

YukonRon

smokeyw said:

westernbbq said:

Watching bbq pitmasters this weekend and saw them injecting beef broth with secret seasoning blends.   What struck me was how much injection liquid spilled back out

I tried injecting pork shoulder once with pineapple juice and the only differenve was that i had a bigger mess to clean, had to exercise extra effort and ended up with a shoulder that tasted no different than an injected one....

Some does come out. However, a lot stays in as well. What they don't usually tell you on Pitmasters is that the main thing being injected is phosphates to make the meat retain moisture. There are some seasonings in there as well

Garlic juice is phosphate rich and onion juice, due to phosphate heavy growth environments, is also a minor source of phosphate. Flavor and moisture support as well, naturally.

smokeyw

YukonRon said:

smokeyw said:

westernbbq said:

Watching bbq pitmasters this weekend and saw them injecting beef broth with secret seasoning blends.   What struck me was how much injection liquid spilled back out

I tried injecting pork shoulder once with pineapple juice and the only differenve was that i had a bigger mess to clean, had to exercise extra effort and ended up with a shoulder that tasted no different than an injected one....

Some does come out. However, a lot stays in as well. What they don't usually tell you on Pitmasters is that the main thing being injected is phosphates to make the meat retain moisture. There are some seasonings in there as well

Garlic juice is phosphate rich and onion juice, due to phosphate heavy growth environments, is also a minor source of phosphate. Flavor and moisture support as well, naturally.

You have to be careful with the onion and garlic in competition. One of the things I often hear judges complaining about is brisket tasting like pot roast.

YukonRon

westernbbq said:

And how much liquid is actually injected into the meat?.  It seems to me that there isnt much room inside the meat for the injection liquid  so most of it squirts back out and injecting some liquid would result in the displacement of meat, myoglobin, water or?   

i got rid of all my injection equipment as i stopped using it after a lone attempt.  The original barbecuers didnt use it and injection has risen in popularity because the bbq contests have less to do with producing great barbecue than they do with producing a standard that appeals to the judges.   To me, this takes the fun out of barbecuing.  It is supposed to be enjoyable, relaxing and a lot of fun.  Maybe injections help enhance the experience but for me, i found it unecessary.  Pork shoulder and beef brisket have plenty of connective tissue, water in the muscle fibers and fat to ensure a juicy, flavorful finished smoked end result when cooked properly.    

It is kind of like football, no matter how fancy you get, like throwing interceptable slant passes at the goal line in the super bowl when you have one of the best runningbacks in the league, you risk throwing the game away.   Just dont ask pete carroll.   Football is blocking and tackling.   

Barbecuing is low and slow cooking...and the BGE makes doing this type of cooking the most enjoyable one can eggsperience!

A parallel between football and the practice of Que. Interesting. Pete Carroll probably injects his Que too.

Being a Chemical Engineer, it is in my DNA to experiment, and my cooks are no different. 

I will admit I have had some spectacular failures, but I should also add, those failures allowed me some spectacular cooks as well.

Those that throw out the flashlight because the batteries were inserted incorrectly, need to throw them to me.

I love dialing in cooks to make them as wonderful as I can, and like you, I marvel at my BGEs and the work they do.

Injecting a brisket, is no more an added task than trimming, applying rub, wrapping or the selection of the wood you choose to smoke. Those are all enhancers to the final results. 

Fire and meat was the original Que. We have come a long way. I know we have much more to explore.

I have not injected any other item I egg. There may be a time to do so. If I think there will be an advantage in doing so, I promise you I will.

Not a fan of Pete Carroll, but he is one of less than 30 people to have  ever won a Super Bowl as head coach.

GoooDawgs

I'm always a fan of injecting apple juice into my pork shoulders.  I was told not to add any salt to the injection as it would discolor the pork...  This was a competition guy that said that so I took his advice at the time, but I'm not 100% if that's correct or not.  I know Chris Lilly will add salt and Worcestershire sauce into his pork buts, so  take that advice with a grain of salt... (pun intended)

YukonRon

smokeyw said:

YukonRon said:

smokeyw said:

westernbbq said:

Watching bbq pitmasters this weekend and saw them injecting beef broth with secret seasoning blends.   What struck me was how much injection liquid spilled back out

I tried injecting pork shoulder once with pineapple juice and the only differenve was that i had a bigger mess to clean, had to exercise extra effort and ended up with a shoulder that tasted no different than an injected one....

Some does come out. However, a lot stays in as well. What they don't usually tell you on Pitmasters is that the main thing being injected is phosphates to make the meat retain moisture. There are some seasonings in there as well

Garlic juice is phosphate rich and onion juice, due to phosphate heavy growth environments, is also a minor source of phosphate. Flavor and moisture support as well, naturally.

You have to be careful with the onion and garlic in competition. One of the things I often hear judges complaining about is brisket tasting like pot roast.

I am certain that may indeed be the case. I have zero desire to cook at a competition, it is a lifestyle for me, and one I enjoy. I don't desire trophies from those that don't know me, I prefer the time spent with friends and family enjoying good times and great food. The BGE provides both.

No disrespect to those that compete, they are likely much superior in cooking than I will ever be. I will always learn something from them. Injecting was just one of the many things I have learned, and try to dial in for my taste.

That is a very good point. So far I like the 2:1:1 ratio.

westernbbq

I am a pete carroll fan as well both from U$C and what he did with seahawks.  But, to throw the ball when you are goal to go and you can smell the paint in the endzone, when you have lynch in the backfield who was running over guys all game long is both stupid and risky

As Vince Lombardi said: "All your effort in any business should be direct toward taking the risks out of it.  If you dont believe that, give up what youre doing and play the horses."

And, even though i am no engineer, i do have an extensive statistical backround. And engineers i advise regularly in business  love it when i tell them that complexity is the enemy of reliability.


I appreciate injections are necessary for contests.  But, this memorial day, i will be drinking beer, swimming and relaxing while waiting for succulent brisket to register the perfect temperature and be pulled off the Big Green Egg.

dougcrann

smokeyw said:

YukonRon said:

smokeyw said:

westernbbq said:

Watching bbq pitmasters this weekend and saw them injecting beef broth with secret seasoning blends.   What struck me was how much injection liquid spilled back out

I tried injecting pork shoulder once with pineapple juice and the only differenve was that i had a bigger mess to clean, had to exercise extra effort and ended up with a shoulder that tasted no different than an injected one....

Some does come out. However, a lot stays in as well. What they don't usually tell you on Pitmasters is that the main thing being injected is phosphates to make the meat retain moisture. There are some seasonings in there as well

Garlic juice is phosphate rich and onion juice, due to phosphate heavy growth environments, is also a minor source of phosphate. Flavor and moisture support as well, naturally.

You have to be careful with the onion and garlic in competition. One of the things I often hear judges complaining about is brisket tasting like pot roast.

Last place I will be cooking is a competition.  

YukonRon

GoooDawgs said:

I'm always a fan of injecting apple juice into my pork shoulders.  I was told not to add any salt to the injection as it would discolor the pork...  This was a competition guy that said that so I took his advice at the time, but I'm not 100% if that's correct or not.  I know Chris Lilly will add salt and Worcestershire sauce into his pork buts, so  take that advice with a grain of salt... (pun intended)

I have not tried the injection for pork shoulders, yet.
I brine mine in molasses, pickling salt, and water for 24 hours. Then dry rub and let sit 24 hours.
After pulling from the fridge, I smear that pork shoulder with peach preserves on all surfaces, and smoke with peach wood, lonslo.
That method has turned out to be the best cook ever for me. The preserves provide a nice crust, which keeps it so juicy, retaining almost all the moisture.
Try it sometime.

smokeyw

Good friendly discussion. I love it!

dougcrann

nhk19 said:

bhedges1987 said:

I used to do it because it was supposed to add extra flavor and keep moisture in. I never noticed. An old wives tale

plus it's too difficult 

This makes it super easy!  Watch the video.
https://h2qshop.com/collections/barbecue-equipment/products/killer-hogs-bdi-meat-injector

I have injected a few pork loin roast. Result was hit or miss. I suspect this may be because I didn't inject enough. This contraption will solve one of my problems...I hate refilling the injector...