So anyone been able to reverse engineer any of the Dizzy Pig rubs

tfhanson

Bought my first Dizzy Pig rubs last night. Got the Tsunami Spin and Shakin’ The Tree.  Used the Tsunami on some chicken thighs.  Really enjoyed it.  The rubs are pricey, would love to figure out how to throw em together myself.

Photo Egg

I know many here make their own rubs.
I gave up trying to stock all the quality ingredients to make my own.
I have some of the basics that I cook with but all my good rubs blends are store bought.lol

Carolina Q

Nature Boy has all of them. That's what I heard anyway. 

nolaegghead

It's as much about grain size, quality and freshness as it is about the ratios and ingredients. 

Photo Egg

nolaegghead said:

It's as much about grain size, quality and freshness as it is about the ratios and ingredients. 

That is something that never crossed my mind until a few months ago when I was talking with Kelley and Bruce from “It’s My Rub!”

tfhanson

nolaegghead said:

It's as much about grain size, quality and freshness as it is about the ratios and ingredients. 

That's what she said.

RRP

A few years back I made several batches of a wonderful rub formulation by the late Ken Stone called Witchy Red after Ken died. It consisted of 11 spices in various quantities. Several of those spices were difficult to locate and were expensive. I sold several containers of Witchy Red to eggers who loved it and wanted more. Well when all said and done the excess spices went flat and in the end I threw away $80 worth of clumped up powdered spices. That was my lesson in trying to make a salable rub as I lost money! Besides the $80 loss I still have several dozen brand new 5.5 oz shaker containers plus some smaller sized ones that I can't bring myself to pitch yet!

My advice is if you like DP products like I do I buy them and use them as I know they were made with fresh ingredients!

BYS1981

DP is worth it. 

Skiddymarker

Never thought of reverse engineering a commercial rub as there is so little time and so many choices. DP has some great rubs and well worth the cost, IMO. There are hundreds of others out there. @caliking suggested John Henry's Mojave Garlic Pepper rub, his go to on beef. JH not available in any store near me so I ordered six different JH rubs and have tried 4 so far, all are very good. 
Other than the basic garlic salt, Kosher salt, black pepper, cayenne used by APL, I now buy all my rubs. The results are consistent and it is fun to try different offerings. 

tjv

RRP,  It's been a long time, but I remember the Witchy Red was killer on chicken.  

t 

tfhanson

It's more of an art form question for me.  I will be a DP customer going forward. Just wondering if I could get close...

nolaegghead

I can tell you how to reverse engineer it but you would need a microscope.

RRP

nolaegghead said:

I can tell you how to reverse engineer it but you would need a microscope.

You mean like my first job as a kid of picking fly sh*t out of ground pepper?

gdenby

As RRP described, if you want to make rub blends, you will need to buy lots of fresh spices and herbs, presumably of high quality. Assuming that the cost of DP rubs seems high, its not likely one would want to try experimenting to reverse engineer them.

FWIW, DP is not that pricey. One of the top blend sellers in the US (La Boite) runs about $60 for an 8 oz quantity. From what I've read, getting high end spices and herbs to the US requires visiting the growers, and convincing them to sell to you instead of major purchasers like McCormick.

Oh, I just put a bunch of DP samples under a 'scope, and I think I would need maybe a gas chromatograph to get an accurate list of what is in them. Some of the ingredients stain the others, and most of the particles are indistinguishable, at least at 20X.

tfhanson

I can see that this request is going off track.  I am not trying to make commercial rubs, hence no need to import exotic spices from around the world.  I was just wondering if anyone had been able to make "close to" DP rubs for their personal use.  

nolaegghead

PLM microscope.  I sold mine to my BIL

Darby_Crenshaw

listen to RRP.  it is a lot of work, and money, and he had a recipe (as opposed to the extra work of reverse engineering).  I know that Dizzy Pig uses some exotic stuff, too.  Doesn't make sense to save some cash on a bottle of Dizzy Pig by buying a pound of some exotic spice for ten times as much, because you need a teaspoon of it.

By also means though, do make your own rubs.  Change things up, experiment.

But I find the Dizzy Stuff is so unusual, I don't bother to even try.  Just buy it in-store locally.

gdenby

tfhanson said:

I can see that this request is going off track.  I am not trying to make commercial rubs, hence no need to import exotic spices from around the world.  I was just wondering if anyone had been able to make "close to" DP rubs for their personal use.  

Among the DP blends, I suppose Dizzy Dust in the base. Myself, I consider something of similar quality to be a standard for "good." Works well with so many things, and not bland. After about 5 years, my efforts are getting close. Not the same, but solid. Not "meh."

I'm not sure that one can get away from "exotic" spices. Black pepper is tropical. Don't think there is any grown in No.Am. The oldest recipe I've found for 'Q rub in the America had black pepper.

Basic rubs are quite simple. Sugar, salt, black pepper, paprika (a mild powdered dry chili) some cayenne ( a hotter chili), probably some mustard.

So I've started grinding mustard from seed. Yow, hot. Will grow some from seed next year. Maybe try to grow some cumin, also. Fresh makes a huge difference for many non-tropical flavors.

Still, no nutmeg substitute that I know about.

RRP

Some background here might be of interest. It was way back in 2000 that I first encountered Chris Capell aka Nature Boy, owner of Dizzy Pig. At that time Chris was self employed as a commercial artist. He was already an egghead and he loved to create rubs...and you know what? He freely shared many of these formulation recipes with the forum and he kept perfecting them. One day someone said something like "Chris, why are you giving these rub recipes away? Why not package them and sell them?" DP was born and look where his creative efforts have taken him! While I still have several of those original shared posts I have the utmost respect for Chris and my lips are forever sealed. While they are undoubtedly unpolished compared to his final products that he makes and sells today I'm sure they were the basis for some popular older rubs still selling today. 

Darby_Crenshaw

Importing spices has nothing to do with whether or not you are selling these. If you truly want the same flavor, to truly "reverse engineer" (your words), then you need the same spices

simple fact

Ron's witchy red i think required a certain spice which he had to order and cost (IIRC) something like forty bucks just for that spice. Without it, not wven close to the same flavor. 

chris (nature boy) isn't making this stuff from McCormick spices out of the Piggly Wiggly. He has many exotics involved. 

So no, you can't reverse engineer most of them from what you have on hand. The dude has maybe the best palate of anyone i've ever spent twenty minutes discussing this stuff. 

regardless of whether you want to sell them or not, you'd still need the right ingredients. And they can be spendy. It ain't cumin and garlic salt

nolaegghead

Volume is everything with spices.  You can't afford to dupicate them unless you buy in bulk.

caliking

For me, it boils down to time. I have thought (wistfully) about making my own sauces, but I don't have the time to tweak and fine tune a project like that. I find that the DP rubs have complex flavors that I enjoy, so there is little to gain by reinventing the wheel in this case. Re: saving money - you probably won't, for the reasons already mentioned.

nolaegghead

Darby_Crenshaw said:

It ain't cumin and garlic salt

Nothing says "I don't know how to cook" more than having garlic salt in your pantry.  Great for seasoning weight watchers TV dinners, but superseded in usefulness by having salt and garlic (in any of its many forms) separately. 

Legume

Sure, but celery salt is the shjt.

nolaegghead

Legume said:

Sure, but celery salt is the shjt.

It's hard to find powdered celery.  So you get a pass there.  But we found it, and there's no celery salt in this crib, mothaflippahs.

Toxarch

There are people who will reverse engineer a blended spice for you. I've seen them walking around bbq competitions handing out fliers. It's more for people who have made their own blend but at the end of adding pinches and dashes don't know what the ratios are in the big batch they ended up with. You pay like $20 and give them a sample and they give you a formula to follow to remake it.

victor1

I've purchased one DP product and two BGE/DP products, all excellent.  Maybe a little pricey but they are excellent, fresh and cost no more then any other quality seasoning.  Why reinvent the wheel? 

HeavyG

nolaegghead said:

Legume said:

Sure, but celery salt is the shjt.

It's hard to find powdered celery... 

May be hard to find but it's pretty easy to make: http://thehumbledhomemaker.com/2014/04/how-to-make-your-own-celery-powder

Legume

now I just need a recipe for making salt and I'm all set

Legume

alright - I just read up on the celery powder, I can do this, I have a dehydrator so I'll give it a try - I only use celery salt for bloody marys, but they don't really need any more salt.

I was puzzled to see that she also has a recipe for garlic salt.  3 parts garlic powder and 1 part salt

Fred19Flintstone

Here in Flint, we can't even do water right.  http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2015/10/01/public-health-emergency-declared-due-to-lead-in-flint-water