Buyer Beware - Ceramic Grillworks of Pittsburgh

Dunleav1

This thread documented my experience with Ceramic Grillworks of Pittsburgh and prompted other people to chime in with similar experiences. This bad press prompted action from Ceramic Grillworks.
I received an email from Franco after multiple unanswered emails.  

"The problem has been resolved.  This system is not rated for 700 degrees or higher.  Your photo showing the underside of the bottom grate clearly shows that even though your temp gauge reading 500 degrees, that was not what the surface area temp of the grate was, in order for that grate to "burn" as it did, that steel was much hotter than 500 degrees.  I would recommend using your stock grate for searing. Based on your buyer beware post on the egghead forum, which I've enjoyed reading all comments, especially on topics that most have no idea about, yet I did have some allies come to my defense and where a few have had a bad experience, I have many that have not.   Regardless, I have come across 1 large 2 tier that I can send to you.  it is the only one I have for at least another 2-3 weeks."

I let him know I preferred a refund instead of a exchange. He responded asking if I wouldn't accept a exchange. He stopped responding to my email again.

I see in the thread above Franco shipped a replacement grate to someone else. I hope that grate works out for them.

I'll let his responses to other customers (above) and my documented experience show the customer service provided as well as document product problems.

I've contacted the Better Business bureau in his county. 

http://www.bbb.org/pittsburgh/

I encourage others who have issues with this company to do the same. On other forums where I posted users have recommended legal action.
I'll see what the BBB response is.

I encourage forum administrators to investigate claims with the BBB if a company is going to be a sponsor or advertise their products on a forum.

bweekes

Wow - guns blazing, eh? I'd cut him a little slack, given that he did find a replacement despite his supply issues. BBB seems a bit harsh, but I suppose the customer is always right! Good luck. My swing rack is in transit. Got a UPS update email saying that I will have to pay  just shy of $100 upon receipt (taxes and duties coming across the border). Emailed Franco on whether I'd be reimbursed for that (given that I already paid it once the first time). We'll see what he says. 

Canugghead

@bweekes big mistake shipping with UPS, I would have insisted they ship by USPS when possible. Learned my lesson the hard way long time ago ;(
one of countless discussions in the interweb:
https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Buyer-Central/50-UPS-Brokerage-fee/td-p/60899

Eggcelsior

That flippant email from him takes the cake.

This is like a really bad joke.

fishlessman

the grate is only good for 500 degrees at grid level, thats like tires for a ferrari only good for 40mph i personally know toms adjustable rig and spider handles 1200 f degrees

Nanook

Get over it......I am....

Chubbs

Eggcelsior said:

That flippant email from him takes the cake.

This is like a really bad joke.

I agree. I almost ordered a swing rack but decided on the AR a few years back. After reading that email I am so glad I did. My favorite comment on the website "Ceramic Grill Works is widely regarded as the internets best shopping experience."  Being in the customer service industry myself, If you tout that on your site you better live up to it or threads like this get started. 

Eggcelsior

mountaindewbass said:

mayyyyybeee im just too New School..but if this was over a year ago and you haven't gotten your product fixed..either buy another one or figure out something new.  I've never had issues with them and you did get a product..your just not happy with it and how it performs.

mayyyybeee you didn't read the part where Franco said he would "make things right" and hasn't in 1 year. How, exactly, do you fix a situation about a product in which the manufacturer admitted the product was defective(he mentioned that his grid sagged over 400F and CGW admitted that there had been issues with some of their steel). You either ask for a replacement(he did) or request a refund(did this too!).

You stated that he should just be happy with the situation because he received a (defective)product? He should just eat the $150? Sure thing, moneybags. Would you be happy with a defective product?

I didn't realize a lack of reading comprehension was "New School".  It's not the OP's fault his product isn't fixed, but way to blame him.

NPHuskerFL

The email you copied and pasted is bothersome from a consumer standpoint. The fact that Franco says it's not designed for anything 700℉ or higher is humorous considering this is designed for an egg. What's the point of having it if you cut that versatility of cooking EVERYTHING on it. I've had my WOO in my MM and accidentally went nuclear and no problems. For the amount of $$$ for a two tier I would expect it to perform at any temp. This is a serious design flaw. I definitely won't be purchasing one now. I'll stick with Tom at CGS & quality I can trust. 

johnkitchens

Not going above 700 degrees reminds me of a situation from the 80's. A guy a I knew bought a brand new Z28. He noticed after he filled it up with gas that there was a strong gas odor. 

After a while he determined that the gas tank leaked if it was above 3/4 of a tank. 

This was a brand new car bought from a dealer. He took it back to the dealer, and they told him just not to fill it up past 3/4 of a tank! 

WTF???????  Customer Service at its worst. 

NPHuskerFL

@johnkitchens  Fail! 

theyolksonyou

  

Eggcelsior

mountaindewbass said:

Eggcelsior said:

mountaindewbass said:

mayyyyybeee im just too New School..but if this was over a year ago and you haven't gotten your product fixed..either buy another one or figure out something new.  I've never had issues with them and you did get a product..your just not happy with it and how it performs.

mayyyybeee you didn't read the part where Franco said he would "make things right" and hasn't in 1 year. How, exactly, do you fix a situation about a product in which the manufacturer admitted the product was defective(he mentioned that his grid sagged over 400F and CGW admitted that there had been issues with some of their steel). You either ask for a replacement(he did) or request a refund(did this too!).

You stated that he should just be happy with the situation because he received a (defective)product? He should just eat the $150? Sure thing, moneybags. Would you be happy with a defective product?

I didn't realize a lack of reading comprehension was "New School".  It's not the OP's fault his product isn't fixed, but way to blame him.

Meh, its all water under the bridge. I would of just moved on...my time isn't worth worrying about getting $150 device settled over the course of a year. That's 0.41 cents per day of my time for a year..pass.

I suppose it's the principle, then.

grege345

I for one never had a problem with my swing rack. I've seared on it. I've also had temps over 500°. I really like it and it is a home run when it comes to pizza IMO. Perfect height for raised direct. All that being said I probably won't purchase anything else from him. Juice is just not worth the squeeze with other options out there. 

bweekes

Agree on the relevancy of "principle" here. As I said, at the end of the day, if the customer isn't happy, there should be attempts (within reason) to make them happy. My story has yet to be concluded - all depends on what happens with this $100 duties charge that's up in the air right now. Anxiously awaiting Franco's response.

egginator

Well this is irrelevant since this thread is not about the ceramic grill store in Denton Texas, however, I strongly recommend buying Tom's product.  It is made from 300 series food grade stainless steel and can take the heat.  I can personally vouch for the fact that he spent years prototyping his stuff before he opened the store (since I have an early prototype wok ring and spider, etc).  And, he has been a big supporter of many egg fests and events even before he had product to sell.  

Lit

mountaindewbass said:

Eggcelsior said:

mountaindewbass said:

mayyyyybeee im just too New School..but if this was over a year ago and you haven't gotten your product fixed..either buy another one or figure out something new.  I've never had issues with them and you did get a product..your just not happy with it and how it performs.

mayyyybeee you didn't read the part where Franco said he would "make things right" and hasn't in 1 year. How, exactly, do you fix a situation about a product in which the manufacturer admitted the product was defective(he mentioned that his grid sagged over 400F and CGW admitted that there had been issues with some of their steel). You either ask for a replacement(he did) or request a refund(did this too!).

You stated that he should just be happy with the situation because he received a (defective)product? He should just eat the $150? Sure thing, moneybags. Would you be happy with a defective product?

I didn't realize a lack of reading comprehension was "New School".  It's not the OP's fault his product isn't fixed, but way to blame him.

Meh, its all water under the bridge. I would of just moved on...my time isn't worth worrying about getting $150 device settled over the course of a year. That's 0.41 cents per day of my time for a year..pass.

weren't you and your wife both laid off recently at the same time. Thought that might have given you a little higher value for things you work for.

Miked125

I like how the problem lies with the user and not a crappy product. I got the AR and glad I did.

bweekes

UPDATE: Well it just keeps getting better. Finally got a hold of Franco re: the $97 duties and brokerage that were due on delivery (i.e., the same amount I already paid once upon receipt of the original and ultimately defective swing rack). He informed me that he would not cover the duties and brokerage, so I told him I'd simply refuse the package, which I did. Out of curiosity, I called UPS to ask if it's common practice for cross-border customers to pay duties twice on exchanged goods. Here's the kicker... they said if the shipper indicates that it's a "warranty replacement" on the commercial invoice, no duty is charged again (in this case ~ $60). The remaining brokerage/taxes of ~ $37 can also be reimbursed if you fill out a customs declaration card. So if this was done right, I'd be free and clear with no additional out of pocket costs. But after all of this nonsense, I'm glad to be done w/ the product. Franco has promised to refund me the full cost of the product, so the story continues. Man this was (or shall I say IS) painful. Still can't understand why Franco would refuse to pay the $97, and instead choose to refund me the total selling price of the product PLUS pay to have my refused product shipped back to him? Just bizarre.    

blasting

I've heard enough bad now about this company, and will refrain from ever purchasing their products.  Quite a contrast to all the great stories about Thermoworks customer service...

Volumes of unhappy customers are not good for business.

Fred19Flintstone

To each his own.  Yeah, there seems to be a few unhappy customers, but I bet there are a bunch more like myself that enjoy their Two Tier Swing Rack.  The happy customers are not motivated to voice their opinion unlike the small group of unhappy customers who delight in heaping all the sh!t they can upon Franco.  The "evidence" presented here is all anecdotal and unproven.  

I have met very few of you so I don't know the vast majority you from Adam.  My point is that unless you have first hand knowledge or the evidence is from a reliable source (not some faceless Internet voice), the "evidence" in which some of you are basing your opinion on could all be BS.  To characterize this thread as evidence of  "volumes of unhappy customers" is a huge exaggeration.

I'm just sayin.

fletcherfam

This thread is a great representation of modern opinion/experience that takes on a life of its own via the Internet. 5,300 views??? Seriously!? I have had bad experiences with most places I go, doesn't mean I write them off. I would have to go without auto insurance, medical insurance, not shop at Costco, avoid the supermarket, and avoid buying a car if I wrote off places like we are writing this company off.

blasting

That's a good point Fred.  Franco may well have thousands of happy customers.  I suppose I'm looking at Franco's products as an alternative to Tom's products.  

Any way you slice it, Franco has a fair number of disgruntled customers.  Tom however has nothing but rave reviews.  People just can't seem to say enough glowing words about Tom.

Admittedly, customer service is kind of a hot button for me; I hold myself and people I do business with to a fairly high standard.   I'm glad you like your swing rack.  It looks like a good product, and I'll buy one myself if I start hearing better reports.  

smokeyj

I always had great encounters with Franco and stated early in the thread. As far customer service I have no complaints. Franco has went out if his for me on a bad temp controller.
I lost my house and everything New yrs eve and being one of his local customer I went to look for a new grill and and everything and he has given me a dozen rubs at least, he wouldn't take anything for them. He also wants to donate a new ceramic grill to me once I germt in my new house. 

BYS1981

Seems to me the company should have just refunded the money from the get go, they could have avoided a 4 page thread.

NPHuskerFL

@BYS1981 True dat!

SmyrnaGA

smokeyj said:

I always had great encounters with Franco and stated early in the thread. As far customer service I have no complaints. Franco has went out if his for me on a bad temp controller.
I lost my house and everything New yrs eve and being one of his local customer I went to look for a new grill and and everything and he has given me a dozen rubs at least, he wouldn't take anything for them. He also wants to donate a new ceramic grill to me once I germt in my new house. 

This is a stupid question, but, did the bad temp controller burn your house down or is Franco really a nice guy?

SmyrnaGA

BYS1981 said:

Seems to me the company should have just refunded the money from the get go, they could have avoided a 4 page thread.

I had a bad experience with a set of sofas with the same results from this thread.  Short version:  None of the legs on the two matching sofa were straight.  The company kept fixing and making us new sofas, but, none of them ever came straight.  A year later and the 6th sofa, they're refunding us the full amount after the pickup this Friday.  There's definitely something with their manufacturing, but, they're not admitting it.  We gave them plenty of chances to make it right.  In the end, they probably think I'm a difficult customer and don't realize they have a problem.

bweekes

Fred19Flintstone said:

To each his own.  Yeah, there seems to be a few unhappy customers, but I bet there are a bunch more like myself that enjoy their Two Tier Swing Rack.  The happy customers are not motivated to voice their opinion unlike the small group of unhappy customers who delight in heaping all the sh!t they can upon Franco.  The "evidence" presented here is all anecdotal and unproven.  

I have met very few of you so I don't know the vast majority you from Adam.  My point is that unless you have first hand knowledge or the evidence is from a reliable source (not some faceless Internet voice), the "evidence" in which some of you are basing your opinion on could all be BS.  To characterize this thread as evidence of  "volumes of unhappy customers" is a huge exaggeration.

I'm just sayin.

I didn't start this thread and I'm not trying to influence behaviours. I'm just an egghead sharing my relevant experience given the subject matter of the thread (just like I do on others). Also, if you go back, you'll see that I've said nothing but good things about the product itself. This thread has everything to do with the service levels, and I thought my service experience was relevant to voice here. I'm a contributor to this forum, not out to expose anyone. 

smokeyj

SmyrnaGA said:

smokeyj said:

I always had great encounters with Franco and stated early in the thread. As far customer service I have no complaints. Franco has went out if his for me on a bad temp controller.
I lost my house and everything New yrs eve and being one of his local customer I went to look for a new grill and and everything and he has given me a dozen rubs at least, he wouldn't take anything for them. He also wants to donate a new ceramic grill to me once I germt in my new house. 

This is a stupid question, but, did the bad temp controller burn your house down or is Franco really a nice guy?

No the temp controller did not burn my house down. Electrical from inside. Well we had a lot people who were nice and went way above and beyond to help. Some day I will pay it forward.