Tips on burning a steak

pretzelb

I hate that I'm asking this question but my 86 year old father (who bought me XL) insists that he wants a "burnt" steak. At first he said he wanted a good sear but we have had repeated discussions with him about the difference between searing and burning until he finally realized that he really isn't interested in a sear but wants it burnt. It is really maddening because he recalls the advertising from Ruth Chris about their 1200 degree searing (which sounds awesome to him) but I have to remind him that unless something goes wrong they won't deliver it burnt but instead it will be seared. But he is my dad, his sense of smell is non-existent so his tastes are probably pretty dull, and he is 86 so I'm trying to do what he wants.

I'm still not great with steaks on my XL but I have improved where I can get a decent looking sear. I've been cooking in the 550 to 600 range. I do have a Woo2 and I just got the 18 CI grate to try and finally get him the burn he wants. But for his steak mostly I've been bumping up the time above ours. He also doesn't want any red so it is easy to get his well done. But even doubling the time per side on his steak I don't see it being "burnt". Maybe I'm still trying to impose my own tastes too much. With the Woo2 and the 18 CI grate things will be new and different but I'm wondering if there is any trick or technique to follow to get him the burn he wants without having a fire hazard or a hockey puck. He does want it well done so that isn't a challenge but I don't want to have to crank the egg to 700 if I can avoid it.

fishlessman

at the lower temps below 700 you will want to get that castiron down low, maybe under the firering and very close to the lump, the flat side up will get more burning than the pointy side and open the dome during the sear so that the fire engulfs it. also for more burnt flavor use alot of rub with herbs and pepper as they taste burnt when burnt. thin fatty steaks burn faster so a thin fatty ribeye would really burn
)

cazzy

I get the impression that your dad likes a crust...He's just calling it burnt. You'll never achieve a crust on the egg.

Next time you make a steak for him, use a cast iron pan to make his steak. You can do this on the egg or in house. It's honestly the only way I make my steak. Get your cast iron pan good and hot so it can retain some heat. Dry off the surface moisture of the steak really good and salt heavily and season with peoper. Add fat and immediately drop your steak. If you let your fat smoke for too long, It will catch fire. The meat will cool the fat and pan. Sear each side for a couple minutes till you form a crust.

This method will work with reverse sear too.

sumoconnell

First - agree with you.  At 86, it's past the time when you try and convince him you have a better method.  He wants char, deliver char  I just recommend buying a cheaper cut of meat at that point - no need for aged ribeyes.

I think you need to cook at normal grid height to get the right done-ness before you go for burning the crust on the woo.  You can have the woo and CI grate in place, put the regular grid on top  Put his steak on first instead of last, get it started at a higher level.  Or, you can get him a thinner steak  than the rest and cook for the same times (or butterfly his steak).  There are a few ways to get there.. I'm sure there are others.  Reverse sear, etc.

This reminded me of "Pittsburgh rare", but he'd want "Pittsburgh well done"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_rare

No need to go above 700 for the burn, I've burnt the crap out of steak at 500!

Good luck -

fishlessman

not cooked enough but plenty of char. castiron, plenty of rub, engulf it in fire with an open dome. i think the hottub method might be best to get the internals up before it goes on, might even help it stay juicy while being well done

gdenby

fishlessman said:

not cooked enough but plenty of char. castiron, plenty of rub, engulf it in fire with an open dome. i think the hottub method might be best to get the internals up before it goes on, might even help it stay juicy while being well done

Fishless,

Haven't you gone "caveman" a couple of times, and tossed the steaks straight onto the lump, and just knocked the cinders off when cooked? Or was that someone else?

gdenby

pretzelb said:

 It is really maddening because he recalls the advertising from Ruth Chris about their 1200 degree searing (which sounds awesome to him) but I have to remind him that unless something goes wrong they won't deliver it burnt but instead it will be seared.

FWIW, R's C advertises 1800F.  As far as I know, lump burning in the Egg can get up above 2000F. You can see blue flames above the lump at that point, which is carbon monoxide burning.

Most of the heat energy from lump comes off as IR. The closer to the lump, the more IR the food absorbs. It pretty easy to char foods if they are directly above orange glowing lump. I left some short ribs on too long once at the lower grill position, and had to remove close to 1/4" of char before getting to the nicely done meat.

fishlessman

gdenby said:

fishlessman said:

not cooked enough but plenty of char. castiron, plenty of rub, engulf it in fire with an open dome. i think the hottub method might be best to get the internals up before it goes on, might even help it stay juicy while being well done

Fishless,

Haven't you gone "caveman" a couple of times, and tossed the steaks straight onto the lump, and just knocked the cinders off when cooked? Or was that someone else?

i go caveman with leg of lamb, i really like it with a red rare piece of lamb and then slow roast it.

margareedaville

pretzelb said:

I hate that I'm asking this question but my 86 year old father (who bought me XL) insists that he wants a "burnt" steak. At first he said he wanted a good sear but we have had repeated discussions with him about the difference between searing and burning until he finally realized that he really isn't interested in a sear but wants it burnt. It is really maddening because he recalls the advertising from Ruth Chris about their 1200 degree searing (which sounds awesome to him) but I have to remind him that unless something goes wrong they won't deliver it burnt but instead it will be seared. But he is my dad, his sense of smell is non-existent so his tastes are probably pretty dull, and he is 86 so I'm trying to do what he wants.

I'm still not great with steaks on my XL but I have improved where I can get a decent looking sear. I've been cooking in the 550 to 600 range. I do have a Woo2 and I just got the 18 CI grate to try and finally get him the burn he wants. But for his steak mostly I've been bumping up the time above ours. He also doesn't want any red so it is easy to get his well done. But even doubling the time per side on his steak I don't see it being "burnt". Maybe I'm still trying to impose my own tastes too much. With the Woo2 and the 18 CI grate things will be new and different but I'm wondering if there is any trick or technique to follow to get him the burn he wants without having a fire hazard or a hockey puck. He does want it well done so that isn't a challenge but I don't want to have to crank the egg to 700 if I can avoid it.

Simple...  Dip his steak in thick sugar water before you throw it on the grill.

pretzelb

Since he likes the outside of brisket and pulled pork you might be correct about using a rub. He doesn't like anything spicy (the definition of spicy is fluid at best) so I'd have to come up with something neutral. I can't go too crazy on salt due to his medications but I should be able to find something. Normally I just go with a small amount of salt and pepper for flavor (for me and the wife) but maybe I can find something for his. 

I debated trying a CI skillet. We already have one. I did buy the 18 CI grate and the Woo2 just for this purpose so I'd hate to have those go to waste but maybe I had all the tools I needed in the first place. Maybe I'll try the CI skillet first. I suppose I can just alter the time and use it for me and the wife too. I better try with cheaper steaks first until I get the hang of it.

xiphoid007

Does your dad mean he wants "Pittsburgh Rare"?

In western Pa that's a common way to grill a steak. You basically want the fire so stinking hot you burn the outside instead of searing. Its taking the sear past perfect to charred.

A perfectly seared steak has that deep mahogany color with crust with a perfect medium rare to medium center. U can't have too hot a fire or you'll burn it getting there. This is why letting the steak warm up for an hour helps this work.

Thus, think cold steak right out of the fridge on a too hot fire. You'll have a small amount of real crust, but mostly char, but it will be rare in the middle. . . Pittsburgh Rare!

Is this what he wants?

Foghorn

I do caveman steaks pretty often.  They can make a good crust if you put a lot of seasoning, particularly salt, on them as someone else mentioned.  I use some kosher salt and then add Montreal Steak Seasoning (which is normally salty enough).  Put the steak directly on the bright orange 2000 degree coals.

Your father sounds exactly like my 90 year old dad.  What I've realized is the perfect steak for him is brown but moist.  It is possible.  Most of us here think that once it is brown it is ruined and it might as well be a piece of charcoal, so they get way overcooked and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  However, I've been able to cook my dad some steaks that were brown but still juicy that he has really enjoyed.

It is possible to do it caveman style and it works very well.  I usually do it on an open pit that is not an egg so the steak is only getting heat from the bottom and it actually takes longer than you would think.  The steak sitting on the coals actually snuffs out the fire a little in that area so when you flip them try to flip them to another spot that is still roaring hot.  Doing caveman in the egg is a little harder - but very doable - because the egg gets up to really high temps and reaching down into the fire to manipulate the steaks is a challenge and trying to insert a thermometer is really hard.  You will need some good gloves.  For well-done you are looking at an internal temp of 165-170.

Good luck.

Carolina Q

You never know about these older folks. Maybe 10 years ago when my mom was just a young'n of 87, she swore she hated tuna and always had. I had just discovered a delicious tuna recipe so I decided to spring it on her. Figured McDonald's was only a mile away if I failed. She absolutely loved it! Ate every bite too! I remember this cuz she still talks about it!

Yep, she is 97 now and still enjoys my cooking. However, she refuses to eat mushrooms. Until recently, that was fine with me since I didn't eat them either. I recent;y "discovered" them and have already warned her that during my next visit, I will get her to eat them. We'll see.

In the case of your dad, could it be as simple as putting a pan-seared (hot CI) steak, maybe medium well, on his plate? Maybe use blackening seasoning and some butter so it would char? No grill marks, but a wall to wall crust. Could it be that that's what he's looking for?

Good luck!!

Little Steven

xiphoid007 said:

Does your dad mean he wants "Pittsburgh Rare"? In western Pa that's a common way to grill a steak. You basically want the fire so stinking hot you burn the outside instead of searing. Its taking the sear past perfect to charred. A perfectly seared steak has that deep mahogany color with crust with a perfect medium rare to medium center. U can't have too hot a fire or you'll burn it getting there. This is why letting the steak warm up for an hour helps this work. Thus, think cold steak right out of the fridge on a too hot fire. You'll have a small amount of real crust, but mostly char, but it will be rare in the middle. . . Pittsburgh Rare! Is this what he wants?

I was thinking a Pittsburgh black and blue as well

Nature Boy

God bless your 86 year old Dad! Apparently you need to step it up. You have some good advice so far! Cheers to Dad, and good luck!

Chris

mombasa333

Simple...  Dip his steak in thick sugar water before you throw it on the grill.

I've never heard of this.  Does it really work?

Tjcoley

Little Steven said:

xiphoid007 said:

Does your dad mean he wants "Pittsburgh Rare"? In western Pa that's a common way to grill a steak. You basically want the fire so stinking hot you burn the outside instead of searing. Its taking the sear past perfect to charred. A perfectly seared steak has that deep mahogany color with crust with a perfect medium rare to medium center. U can't have too hot a fire or you'll burn it getting there. This is why letting the steak warm up for an hour helps this work. Thus, think cold steak right out of the fridge on a too hot fire. You'll have a small amount of real crust, but mostly char, but it will be rare in the middle. . . Pittsburgh Rare! Is this what he wants?

I was thinking a Pittsburgh black and blue as well

First thing I thought of as well  Although it sounds like Dad likes well done through out..  Not quite a Pittsburgh Steake 

MaskedMarvel

Pittsburghed...  Great  -  now we all have to buy a steel foundry to get our steaks perfect...  

This forum is EXPENSIVE

pretzelb

xiphoid007 said:

Does your dad mean he wants "Pittsburgh Rare"? In western Pa that's a common way to grill a steak. You basically want the fire so stinking hot you burn the outside instead of searing. Its taking the sear past perfect to charred. A perfectly seared steak has that deep mahogany color with crust with a perfect medium rare to medium center. U can't have too hot a fire or you'll burn it getting there. This is why letting the steak warm up for an hour helps this work. Thus, think cold steak right out of the fridge on a too hot fire. You'll have a small amount of real crust, but mostly char, but it will be rare in the middle. . . Pittsburgh Rare! Is this what he wants?

The problem is he really doesn't know what he wants. He has tried my pulled pork and brisket and he says we wants the burnt pieces or he has even said just give me the outside part on pulled pork. I've tried to explain that when it is cooked indirect at 250 it isn't burnt at all. What makes it even more maddening is the last brisket I did I had some heat in the rub which I feared he would hate (because he says he doesn't like spicy) but he still liked it. Maddening. 

I think it might be all about illusion or presentation with him. He did have a history of taking the end cut with prime rib so back in the day he had a taste for the bark or crust. He claims all his buddies used to fight for the end cut when they went out to dinner. His logic is that everyone likes it best because of that. I have a theory this might be related to how meat was cooked back in the WW2 days since it does seem to be more popular with his generation.

So my next attempt is probably going to be a rub that isn't too salty (health) or too spicy. I will probably combine that with my CI skillet. I almost worry that it will work and then I have the Woo2 and the 18" CI grate that were wasted purchases. If I can just get the appearance of being burned without it really being burnt that would be great. 

pretzelb

Thanks to the tips here I think I found a solution. The wife had a bad day so she went to the butcher and picked up two 8oz fillets for us and a 6oz fillet butterflied for my dad. So I pulled out the CI skilled and cranked the egg to about 600. I made sure his fillet was very dry and put it on the skillet first and cooked open dome about 2 minutes per side. I then added ours for about 1 min per side. Moved them all to the grate and closed the dome. I kept them in for 3 min before checking. The one mistake I made was I tried to use my big probe for brisket and pork shoulder and it wasn't reading correctly. My temps were way too low and I messed up the wife's steak. It ended up being medium rare instead of rare. But my dad loved his. First time he really liked it. It pains me to do that to a good steak but he was happy. The only issue was the butterfly ended up with an uneven surface so the sear wasn't uniform. I think next time we will ask them to NOT butterfly it. Also next time I need to just use my Thermapen. 

The pictures are kind of bad but I was dealing with a ton of heat.

Foghorn

Well done.

(Sorry. I couldn't resist)

sumoconnell

You are seeing the difference from a chef to a cook. A chef cooks for others and a cook makes what he likes and/or knows.

+1, well done

Carolina Q

Hey, did I tell you to use the CI? Glad you figured it out. And that he likes it!!  

pretzelb

Carolina Q said:

Hey, did I tell you to use the CI? Glad you figured it out. And that he likes it!!  

The problem now is do I keep the (still unused) 18" CI grate that we bought last week. The skillet seems to be the right tool and I hate to have extra stuff that I don't need. 

pretzelb

sumoconnell said:

You are seeing the difference from a chef to a cook. A chef cooks for others and a cook makes what he likes and/or knows. +1, well done

Too true. It makes me cringe doing that to a good piece of meat but he likes it. 

GATABITES

Where are you located? Im sure no where near me.. i would buy the 18"