OT: The further wussification of America

Village Idiot

Since football is a popular OT subject on this forum, I thought this might be of interest.

http://www.kcra.com/news/controversial-mercy-rule-has-football-parents-angry/-/11797728/22052912/-/14q2rc4z/-/index.html

Seems to me that a lopsided loss would be inspiration for the losing team to practice on how to maim the quarterback next time.

SmokeyPitt

Wow...that's ridiculous.  So I guess the winning team is supposed to just stand there and let the loosers catch up??  Why don't they just end the game once there is a 35 point spread??

In the youth leagues in my area they just go to a running clock once there is a 24 point spread. 

TexanOfTheNorth

I don't even want to get started on this topic!

HorseMover

Yep...all players should get even playing time is another great one. Don't work harder to improve because everybody gets to play.

Griffin

Stupidity, plain and simple. I guess if they allowed this in college football, Baylor would be paying some pretty high fines right about now.

)

fishlessman

seems fair to me, who do these kids think they are, the 2007 patriots

Village Idiot

I say we should invoke the mercy rule and give good comments to Mickey's cooking.   )

lilwooty

Village Idiot Posts: 6,425

7:28AM

I say we should invoke the mercy rule and give good comments to Mickey's cooking.

 

Naw... we should still be able to razz each other, just limit it to no more than 35 degrading comments.

Skiddymarker

As usual, the wrong folks are being penalized. The league officials should be responsible and accountable to ensure a balanced league. Having one team full of super stars and another full of door mats teaches no one anything. Fans and players prefer to see close games, walkovers are quickly turned off. 

Not knowing much about minor football, can't comment too much. I have been involved with minor hockey and suspect it is similar. 

Rep (AAA) hockey is treated like a business, every game counts, regardless of age. Even a room full of 10 year olds will and should be reduced to tears if they lose. Play by and within the rules and play every shift at 100%. You never stop competing for your spot on the team. Not only do you attend all on ice practices and games, you will also be expected to attend off ice sessions and have your own workout program. The concepts of mercy or compassion simply do not exist. 

House League is a different thing altogether. You play for exercise and fun. Attend practices and games if you can. Equal play time for all players and the score really doesn't matter. Play to win and within the rules. If you win, do it graciously, if you lose it is not a big deal. 

Fred19Flintstone

Skiddymarker said:

As usual, the wrong folks are being penalized. The league officials should be responsible and accountable to ensure a balanced league. Having one team full of super stars and another full of door mats teaches no one anything. 

We totally agree!!!!! - the 2008 Detroit Lions (0-16).

FanOfFanboys

Of course there is a line right? Kids need to have freedom to be kids, enjoy things as much as possible. Sheltered to some extent from cruelties of world. But they also, relative to their age and maturity and source, need to be allowed to fail and struggle. They need to know shame. They need to fall and pick themselves up, literally and figuratively. They need to build a self worth from accomplishments on their own merit. They need to know its not OK to quit on a commitment. They need to have that sick feeling in stomach when lose and it is their fault, or when they lose and it is fault of a teammate and they have to share in it. They also need to know that euphoria of winning. Of lining up against someone and outworking them. 

It is the adults role to make sure kids are in that position. That if a team sport they are aligned somewhat even. Kids need to take field knowing they at least have a shot and they won't get hurt simply bc opponent vastly superior. And vice versa. 

A running clock is a great idea at that age. And if 30 times a team won by 35 or more they need to change way teams are chose, number of teams in league, etc. 7 year olds should not be playing football with 13 year olds either. 

nolaegghead

How about when a team is winning by 35 points or more, they have to lose the helmets and pads to even things up.  No wussiness playing without pads!

Drewdlc17

O this angers me!
If anyone should be punished its the kids on the team that got their tails kicked and the coach that is coaching them! Maybe if they weren't such wimps they wouldn't get beat by 50 points.
In college if we got whooped our coaches certainty didn't feel sorry for us. The next week of practice was worse that getting stomped by another team.
We all know this rule started from some parent who was bullied as a kid and her kid is bullied now. He/she never stood up for them selfs and their kid is a coward now as well.
All of us have been bullied, or got our tails whooped before. We got to teach our kids not to take any crap from people and stand up. My dad taught me to always respect everyone and never start trouble but if someone started trouble with me I was not to back down. Punch trouble in the face! In this case these kids need to suck it up and play harder.
I'm going to stop my rant now! Sorry!

FanOfFanboys

Drewdlc17 said:

O this angers me! If anyone should be punished its the kids on the team that got their tails kicked and the coach that is coaching them! Maybe if they weren't such wimps they wouldn't get beat by 50 points. In college if we got whooped our coaches certainty didn't feel sorry for us. The next week of practice was worse that getting stomped by another team. We all know this rule started from some parent who was bullied as a kid and her kid is bullied now. He/she never stood up for them selfs and their kid is a coward now as well. All of us have been bullied, or got our tails whooped before. We got to teach our kids not to take any crap from people and stand up. My dad taught me to always respect everyone and never start trouble but if someone started trouble with me I was not to back down. Punch trouble in the face! In this case these kids need to suck it up and play harder. I'm going to stop my rant now! Sorry!

1) the article is about kids as young as 7. Very diff from collegiate athletes. You propose 7-10 year olds go thru brutal practices? They have not even hit puberty yet. 

2) article nor thread has anything to do with fighting. 

Little Steven

Skiddymarker said:

As usual, the wrong folks are being penalized. The league officials should be responsible and accountable to ensure a balanced league. Having one team full of super stars and another full of door mats teaches no one anything. Fans and players prefer to see close games, walkovers are quickly turned off. 

Not knowing much about minor football, can't comment too much. I have been involved with minor hockey and suspect it is similar. 

Rep (AAA) hockey is treated like a business, every game counts, regardless of age. Even a room full of 10 year olds will and should be reduced to tears if they lose. Play by and within the rules and play every shift at 100%. You never stop competing for your spot on the team. Not only do you attend all on ice practices and games, you will also be expected to attend off ice sessions and have your own workout program. The concepts of mercy or compassion simply do not exist. 

House League is a different thing altogether. You play for exercise and fun. Attend practices and games if you can. Equal play time for all players and the score really doesn't matter. Play to win and within the rules. If you win, do it graciously, if you lose it is not a big deal. 

In hockey though, there is a code against running up the score on a weaker team.

Drewdlc17

FanOfFanboys said:

Drewdlc17 said:

O this angers me!
If anyone should be punished its the kids on the team that got their tails kicked and the coach that is coaching them! Maybe if they weren't such wimps they wouldn't get beat by 50 points.
In college if we got whooped our coaches certainty didn't feel sorry for us. The next week of practice was worse that getting stomped by another team.
We all know this rule started from some parent who was bullied as a kid and her kid is bullied now. He/she never stood up for them selfs and their kid is a coward now as well.
All of us have been bullied, or got our tails whooped before. We got to teach our kids not to take any crap from people and stand up. My dad taught me to always respect everyone and never start trouble but if someone started trouble with me I was not to back down. Punch trouble in the face! In this case these kids need to suck it up and play harder.
I'm going to stop my rant now! Sorry!

1) the article is about kids as young as 7. Very diff from collegiate athletes. You propose 7-10 year olds go thru brutal practices? They have not even hit puberty yet. 

2) article nor thread has anything to do with fighting. 

Are you suggesting that 7 year olds shouldn't be pushed to do their best? If you get a F in class shouldn't you study your tail off to get better? If your going to participate in something such as football hockey, school, green egg cooking you got to busy your tail to get better.
I believe If you take a second look I never said that kids should endure brutal practices.
Oh, and you are correct the article was not about fighting. However, it was about the Wussification of America.

FanOfFanboys

@Drewdlc17 I am saying at 7 it is relative. They should not be in position to lose by 35+ by playing 10-13 year olds. And at 7 they should not fear practice or have practice be worse than games. 
Pushing kids is always a good thing as long as push is equal to their current maturity level both physically and emotionally. 
I started wrestling when I was about 7. I continued through high school, where I wont two state titles, and finished in college, where I learned two state titles mean nada bc everyone has state titles on that level. I spent couple years coaching JV kids at middle school level where all but a couple were first time wrestlers. 

When I started it was about having fun but taking it serious. Winning and losing matches did not matter as long as we worked and did not quit in middle. Around 9-10 winning was emphasized but not main driving force, more a add-on. Coaches would mention "Aaron is winning bc he takes practice serious" so planting idea hard work = success. By time I got to high school I had developed a love for sport. It was cultivated by coaches throughout diff phases slowly layering on importance of hard work. I wrestled 133 in college so was not a big guy ever. I had to develop great cardio and technique bc not naturally athletic like some guys. But if I had a coach at 7-8 who was a hardass or went hard on guys who lost even if trying and emphasis was only w/l record I don't know if I would have stayed with it and made it to the levels I did. 

At 7 years old they need to be taught to play thru. That sometimes lose even when trying hard but still important to try hard. But they need to know it is ok to lose bc it happens. At 7 they are usually playing bc their parents want them to play. 1/2 the dads are living vicariously though their kids. But just bc they are losing by 35 does not mean they aren't trying. They are 7. At 17 then you bear down on them and apply some pressure. Make sure they want it and if they don't no biggie but they need to either be committed or find something they will be committed to. 

In relation to the article I am not a fan of proposed rule. It is asinine solution to the problem and I listed in my first post some ideas that would actually fix the problem while also truly benefiting the kids instead of holding their hands. 

henapple

If anyone should be punished its the kids on the team that got their tails kicked and the coach that is coaching them! Maybe if they weren't such wimps they wouldn't get beat by 50 points.

I couldn't disagree more. Punish a 7 year old for losing or a coach who's committing his time, free of charge to spend time with these kids? Anyone who has coached in these leagues knows teams get stacked. Have a running clock and turn the scoreboard off and let them play. I remember being pissed when I found out my 4 year old's soccer league didn't keep score. Kids need to learn not only that life us tough and the lessons from severe defeat but how to win graciously.

IMHO it's more liberal ideas to "level the playing field". Every kids gets a trophy for participating... Colleges have to accept a certain percentage of this group or that group.... Not the overall best and hard working, just the best of certain groups. NFL teams are required to interview minorities. Our society feels the need to punish the successful, more talented and hard working.

Fred19Flintstone

Punishing the successful, more talanted and hard working has been going on for many decades. How long has the IRS been in business?

HorseMover

My earlier post was not aimed at a 7 year old but what chaps my azz is when people don't understand the difference between an instructional league and reality. Some kids are never going to be great football players and may not have the talent to play in high school and beyond. That same kid maybe an excellent basketball player, golfer, etc. There is a point in time when that wake up call must come and allow the kid to explore his/her different talents. This equal playing time for all was rammed down my throat a few years ago and it's not fair to the stud or the dud. I'm sure we all have different opinions on when this dose of reality needs to sink in but it is being pushed further and further these days. Life isn't always fair and I want my children to realize that sooner than later otherwise it's going to be hard for them to become productive member's of society and live enjoyable lives.

queued

As long as the winning team isn't trying to run up the score* the I don't see a big problem.  If the league is concerned with the score getting out of hand, then call the game when one team gets 35 points ahead.  But asking the team that is winning to essentially stop trying?  That doesn't teach the kids on either team a thing.  It is also dangerous to the players on the team that is winning, as most injuries occur when a player is not going full speed (standing around or not paying attention).

* examples of running up the score would be to not sub in the reserves, calling timeouts to maximize scoring, and a whole slew of other overt actions.

Fred19Flintstone

Y'all quit cher bellyachin! Everyone will get a participation award the next throwdown. You don't even need to bother submitting photos! You'll get your award anyway! Now, don't you feel better?

Village Idiot

I'm older than most of you.  The non-school teams we had were sand lot pick up teams.  A "captain" for a team would choose a player, then the other captain would choose one.  I was little and skinny, and was always the last picked (if picked at all).  There were no coaches, nor were there parents to complain.  I got over it, and I think in some ways, it prepared me for life.

Fast forward 50 years.  The usual captain of one of the teams is in the pen, doing life for murder.  Another "star" is banned from doing any public accounting because of theft.  I married the prettiest girl I've ever seen, and I have a Big Green Egg.  Life is good !

Moral:  Whatever disappointments or embarrassments the losers suffer may never be forgotten, but it can be a character builder that the winners will never experience.

Eggcelsior

Fred19Flintstone said:

Punishing the successful, more talanted and hard working has been going on for many decades. How long has the IRS been in business?

Since there was no need to inject politics into a thread about children and sports or the "wussifacation of America", here is a completely unnecessary picture of a cat that mentions religion.

Fred19Flintstone

No on the politics. Just observing how the successful are punished.

henapple

I've always used the word wussification so it kinda surprised me you uses it. Boys have female nursery workers, female Sunday school teachers and mostly school teachers and many raised by absent fathers or neglecting dads.

Be nice
Be fair
Play with dolls
Violence is always bad
Don't fight, walk away
Be happy with winning or losing
Don't be assertive

Wild at Heart is a great book by John Eldredge about boys being boys growing into men.

Eggcelsior

Fred19Flintstone said:

No on the politics. Just observing how the successful are punished.

I suppose someone's jaded glasses can be rose-colored for another. To each their own.

Village Idiot

Now, now, Egg and Fred.  You are BOTH winners and each have valid views.  Lets not inhibit one's beliefs over another's thoughts.

Eggcelsior

VI is right Fred. I'm sorry. This is for the both of us:

Aquacop

Life is HARD, its HARDER when you are stupid!

Holepuncher

I do worry about having enough "alpha males", to make our country, cities and neighborhoods , secure like they should be.