HELP - Post-Mortem: Dry Brisket

Unknown · July 2010

After another failed attempt at brisket, I am hoping to do figure out where I went wrong so that maybe next time, I can finally do this the right way.

Background: Yesterday, I figured I would make another attempt at smoking brisket. All my previous attempts had failed because the meat would get stuck in the "plateau" period for such a long time, and I would eventually panic and pull it off. Last night was no exception.

Meat: The meat was 2.8 lbs. I am unsure which part of the brisket it was, but there was not very much fat on it. I prepared it with a dry rub and let it sit while I built the fire.

Grill: The egg was filled to the ring with hardwood lump. On top of that I placed two generous handfuls of mesquite chips that had been soaking for 45min. or so. Once I got the fire going, I inverted the platesetter on top of that, placed a small drip pan on it filled with about 1/2-inch of water I had used to soak the mesquite in. I placed my cast-iron grate on top of that. Finally, the brisket went on, fat side down, with a probe into the middle running to an All-Clad Oven Probe Thermometer. Vents were adjusted and the dome thermometer (original BGE one) read 225F.

Process: The meat went on at 10:30am. By noon or so, it had reached 163F, but rather than holding steady there for the plateau, it gradually dropped back down to 153F. (This issue has been discussed ad nauseum in yesterday's topic "Temperature Drop in Brisket Plateau?" so no need to explore it further.) I consulted the forum, and most people told me to wait out the plateau as long as it needed to run for, and maybe to bump the temperature in the dome up to 250F. So I bumped the dome temperature, and continued to wait.

Result: 8 hours later, there had been almost no movement in the temperature on the probe - it had gotten to 156F. I opened the dome and the meat was considerably shrunken and looking dry. The liquid in the drip pan had long since evaporated and there was a residue of dried/burnt fat (I'm guessing) in the bottom of the pan. I used an old Polder thermometer probe to get an independent reading on the meat, and it turned up the same 156F. I took the meat off and sliced it up. It had a great flavor, probably due to the 1-4-inch smoke ring around the inside (the deepest I've had), but the rest of the meat was very dry and uniformly brown throughout.

QUESTIONS:
- What am I doing wrong that this keeps happening?
- Do I need to start with a fattier piece of meat?
- Do I need to cook the meat fat-side up and not fat-side down?
- Should I be replenishing the water in the drip pan often?
- Why have I not been able to get the meat out of the plateau in ANY of my previous attempts (probably 6-7 overall)???

Eggers, I am hoping you can steer me in the right direction because I really want to get one of these right one day!

Fidel · July 2010

Did you check your dome thermometer? I'm still guessing you were cooking at lower than 225&deg and this is why you cannot get out of the plateau - there is not enough heat in there to get the meat to rise.

Small trimmed briskets are difficult. Larger briskets with a thicker fat cap, or alternatively full packer briskets are much easier to obtain desired results.

The drip pan should be on spacers and not directly on the platesetter. This will help with the scorching of its contents, but addition of any water is not necessary. The purpose is to catch drippings; in the egg additional moisture is not necessary.

Unknown · July 2010

Thanks Fidel.

The only monitoring of the dome temperature I was able to due was using the original BGE dome thermometer. It was showing 250F for the entire time. Is that thing not generally very accurate?

Fidel · July 2010

Pull it out and check it in boiling water. I'd bet it reads about 180 instead of 212

If it is low turn the nut on the back until the dial shows 212 in boiling water.

thirdeye · July 2010

QUESTIONS:
- What am I doing wrong that this keeps happening?
- Do I need to start with a fattier piece of meat?
- Do I need to cook the meat fat-side up and not fat-side down?
- Should I be replenishing the water in the drip pan often?
- Why have I not been able to get the meat out of the plateau in ANY of my previous attempts (probably 6-7 overall)???

- I think the size os too small
- Fattier the better with a brisket
- Fat side down works best in an Egg
- I don't use any liquid in the drip pan
- The stuck plateau problem is odd, it should break out sooner of later.

A 2.8 pound brisket is pretty small, and since you mentioned the fat was trimmed real close, that is another downside. On flats in the 4 to 5 pound range, I keep them in the pit for 4 or 5 hours (or until they are around 160° internal), then I lightly re-season and finish them off in a foil pouch, fat side up, with some jazzed up beef broth added before sealing. The pouch goes on a sheet pan and into a 275° oven. It should be checked in 90 minutes with a toothpick. If it's not tender enough, go another 30 minutes and check again. Just be careful not to cook it too tender, or you will have to make 1" thick slices for it to hold together. Rest in an insulated cooler for at least 1 hour, drain and reserve the juices from the foil (to be used alone or mixed in with some sauce), slice and enjoy.

61chev · July 2010

I would think that small a brisket would be hard to manage. I am no eggspert by any means but have had good luck with briskets from sam's I buy 7-8# flats just trim the hard fat and real thick stuff down to 1/4-3/8". rub at least 2 hours ahead- get the heat stabilized at 225 or close for at least 30 minutes- put in meat and dont even go close for an hour then spritz with apple juice and cider vinegar every 1 to 1 1/2 hr- cook till interior temp of 195- foil and wrap in towels in cooler for no less than 1 hour- the last three I have done have turned out very good this works for me anyway you just have to keep trying and don't get discouraged I messed up several before I got some we liked after all it's more of a hobby than anything just don't tell about the bad ones

FearlessGrill · July 2010

I agree with Fidel and Thirdeye. Make sure your thermometer is right. You can't cook to 195 if your grid temp is 190.

I've never tried a brisket of less than 6 lbs, as I' pretty sure, as you've discovered, that they would dry out. I can sometimes find 6ish lb flats, but I usually do 10-12lb packers. Even if I don't need that much meat for the meal that day, it makes great leftovers too, and it's no more effort to do the big ones than a little one. If you have to do the small ones (e.g. that's all you can get), foiling them, as Thirdeye described, is likely your best bet. Note that this will give you less of a bark than you'd get without foiling.

In response to your questions, I don't use any liquid in my pan. The Egg keeps food moist when cooking. Note that you should put spacers (foil balls, little green feet, etc) between the pan and the plate setter to keep the drippings from burning.

I don't find fat side up vs. down to make a big difference. I slightly prefer fat side up to protect the meat from the radiant heat coming off the dome, which could potentially dry the meat out faster than what gets through the plate setter and drip pan.

Good luck,

-John

Unknown · July 2010

Thanks for all the good input here. I'll just have to play around with it. I like hearing that the one common thread running through all your feedback is basically, "Go Bigger!" I would expect nothing less from serious BBQers.

Chubby · July 2010

Yes...

1) Go Bigger!!
2) Check your Thermometer like Fidel says..
3) Get an inexpensive,(6-10 bucks) oven thermometer from like BB&Y ect...so you can set it on the grid next to your next "Victim"...(ok, we like to kid around here!)
while you cook! It will start to show you the differences, (when using various set ups) in the Dome reading...v/s the Grid reading!
Verrrrry important!
4) No slight to Tweeve...but (especially now,since your learning)...I'd respectfully recomend you taking his advice,(on Egging) with a heaping dose of salt!
There's lots of good advice here...and while none of us are correct all the time, over time you'll see many things that will more or less be agreed
upon by most. I'd be willing to bet you'll find those things to be reliable/valuable as you become more experienced!
In the end...the point is to give and take...sharing what we all know,or have learned by our experiences!

As we speak...you're being groomed as the new "Go To" Guy on Brisket Flats!

Now...Where's that next Brisket...lol!!

Good luck...welcome aboard!!

Evans

Jeffersonian · July 2010

I agree with everything Rod said here. We've gone round and round here about the BGE thermometers, too, and I think I can say without too much fear of stepping on toes that there's a consensus that the units are not of the highest reliability or accuracy.

Short-term: make sure your current unit is referenced to a known temperature like boiling water by doing what Rod recommends. Be aware, though, that the unit may only be accurate around that reference temperature, and may still be considerably inaccurate the farther you get from it.

If you're wanting to stick with dial-type thermometers, a step up is the Tel-Tru 5" BGE replacement. If you're going to use the thermo for lower-temp cooks only, there are a lot of digitals on the market that would give you a little more accuracy and peace of mind while not breaking your bank.

Jeffersonian · July 2010

Above all, don't be discouraged by your brisket cooks. They're hard to nail down, and I've cooked some real bricks before I finally managed to do one that was edible and, finally, ones that were actually delicious. You'll get it eventually.

Jeffersonian · July 2010

Well, if you look at what Tweev said in the now-infamous thread, you'll see that he was probably more right than wrong: He was wrong about briskets not dropping (slightly and briefly) in temperature during the plateau, but he was correct in his larger conclusion that something else was going on with DC Egg's brisket.

I think some here are a trifle too eager to pounce on Tweev's minor errors or deviations from Egg orthodoxy. Let's take the personalities out of this, shall we?

WessB · July 2010

Get over it already..the guy is constantly giving members "wrong" advice, and the majority of them wouldn't know any difference if someone with some experience didn't correct them....plain and simple....

Bacchus · July 2010

Brad, re:BGE thermometers....I thought in the thread a few months back, you were making the arguement that the BGE unit and premium aftermarket units were of the same technology, with little if any difference in material quality, therefore were pretty much identicle in overall product performance/quality. Your arguements seemed well informed, so it stuck with me.
Did I misunderstand? Maybe it was Stike that had that viewpoint and I'm confused.....

Chubby · July 2010

Frankly...last I checked, I wasn't speaking to, (or with) you...today, or any other for that matter!

My advice to DC was a direct reply to a question from him, and his request for advice.

While you're certianly welcome to your opinion,(and I mine)...If I needed you to further explain the content of,(or your help with drawing conclusions from)
the ridiculously juvinile threads that you participated in yesterday, I'd ask you directly...wouldn't I?

Finally, for some reason you feel the need to inform me on your opinion where "others" here are concerned...along with your unsolicited advice
pertaining to my conduct in the future.

Please understand, I don't care what you think...about this, or anything else.

Thanks

Jeffersonian · July 2010

What is plain and simple is the fact that DC Egg followed the advice of folks like you, Wess, and he got a bone-dry brisket as a result. Or did you miss his results thread?

You and others were so wrapped up in your loathing for Tweev that you completely missed what was going on with DC's cook and gave told him the wrong thing simple because it was opposite of what Tweev said. Not until Fidel noticed the cook was going way, way long did anyone else - besides Tweev - mention that there was a dome temperature problem.

You'd think that with >10 years of egging, >10 years on the forum and even your own BBQ website, you'd have noticed that. Being a forum-policing expert and all.

Jeffersonian · July 2010

No, I think that was Stike's point, not mine. My point was that even though the two used the same basic technology, the TT was of a higher quality in design and manufacture, not unlike the difference between a Lexus and a Yugo. Both use the same technology at the core, with very different outcomes.

Jeffersonian · July 2010

I didn't realize that I needed your permission to reply, Chubby. If that's the standard, I'll point out that I didn't give you permission to reply to my post, either.

One thing I noticed about your post, though, was that you didn't say I was wrong. Tweev was right (about DC's likely temperature problem) in that brisket thread, and virtually everyone pounced on him regardless because you all don't like him. Period.

So what does that say about the advice being dispensed by folks portraying themselves as seasoned experts here? Does that advance the cause of Egging?

You may reply.

WessB · July 2010

DC didn't ask about his egg temp, he asked about internal meat temp and that is what I answered...Ya gonna try to drag this out for 4 days like you do with most of your comments.

WessB · July 2010

You keep insisting Tweev was right.....here's his post....where in the world to you see anything that was helpful or right...and he certainly didn't say the dome temp was to low as you keep preaching....

It's impossible for the temperature to drop in the brisket if the dome temp was held steady at 225 the whole time. Something else is influencing your temperature readings.

Jeffersonian · July 2010

DC Egg mentioned his brisket temp had dropped by 11 degrees. Even the links provided by people mentioned a possible 2-3 degree drop in the plateau, not something 4-5 times that amount. Clearly something else was at work in the cook, precisely what Tweev said, and precisely what you flamed him for.

Wouldn't a real Egg expert point to likely causes of such a drop, like a thermometer reading high, rather than just talk about meat temperature? After all, DC Egg followed your bad advice, Wess, and his brisket was ruined.

Jeffersonian · July 2010

It's impossible for the temperature to drop in the brisket if the dome temp was held steady at 225 the whole time. Something else is influencing your temperature readings.

And he was right on his central point, was he not? Sure, meat temp can drop a bit, but not the 11 degrees DC observed. Something else was going on, just like Tweev said, and opposite of what you said.

Face it, you gave bad advice that ruined a fellow Egger's cook, Wess. See why I've ignored your counsel all these years?

WessB · July 2010

The only advice I gave was that the temp drop was perfectly normal...you can try to make it sound like a dry brisket was my fault...but everyone can see you're trying to make something out of nothing....here's my post...you tell me in your warped little mind of yours how this could have caused someone to end up with a dry brisket....

Nope...no need to worry, thats perfectly normal, the meat is just using up all the energy/heat breaking things down...It'll come back up before long...Enjoy..

WessB · July 2010

you don't have a clue...

DC Egg · July 2010

All,

Thanks for all advice. Fidel had suggested checking my BGE dome thermometer, and it turns out that was probably the issue. I set it in boiling water and it shot up to 260F! If 260F on the temperature was actually 212F, then it's no wonder that 225F reading on the dome yesterday was actually 177 or something. Therefore, there was no way for the brisket to get up to 190 and above.

While I don't know how the temperature dropped 10 degrees, it appears to be irrelevant at this point because I was cooking almost 50 degrees lower than I thought I was. I feel like an idiot for not checking on that before, but I didn't think it had ever been an issue.

I certainly regret that this had to spin off into a debate that seems to have roots in some long-held disagreement, but hopefully everyone was still able to enjoy their weekends. Thanks to all for taking the time out of theirs to help a less experienced Egger make strides toward a better brisket. I'll be sure to post the results of the next one!

WessB · July 2010

Glad you learned something from the whole cook..that is what it is really all about...don't worry about us exchanging blows so to speak...you'll also learn thats par for the course..hopefully you at least learned Tweev doesn't have any egging experience...and Jeffersonian only shows up to shove a knife in...keep cookin and keep postin, and the forum will help you along as needed..

Jeffersonian · July 2010

Nope...no need to worry, thats perfectly normal, the meat is just using up all the energy/heat breaking things down...It'll come back up before long...Enjoy

Which we know now was not true, ergo you gave bad advice. Shall I put it into single-syllable words for you?

WessB · July 2010

NO...those of us that know...realize it was absolutely true....I Figured you'd be back with some assanine remark...kinda surprised your journals didn't provide you with any better response....at least 3 or 4 pages of unrelated scientific garbage to make you feel superior....and I did not advise DC incorrectly...and you are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing to Tweev...

Jeffersonian · July 2010

Don't feel bad, DC, bad thermometers have been the bane of a lot of us here. Some argue that it's not a very important issue, but I beg to differ, especially with brisket: If you have one unit that's 20 degrees high and cook with one that's 20 degrees low, it would likely mean the difference between failure and success. It would actually be preferable to use a unit that's consistently 40 degrees off.

You can re-zero your BGE thermometer, but be aware that this is not a "calibration" per se and can still leave you with significant error. Here's a POST I wrote on the subject a few months back, if you have the time and patience. It can help you make the best of a bad situation until you can get a good unit to replace the one going haywire.

WessB · July 2010

Do you have any idea how many competition cookers use no thermometers at all....idiot...it's all experience and knowledge...ya don't need a book or a college degree or a thermometer to cook a piece of meat...and I understand you will NEVER accept this which is your loss...but I do understand that you come from a lacking background to begin with..hence your arrogance here is "somewhat" excusable..

Jeffersonian · July 2010

"Those of us that know"....hmmmm....is that some sort of secret society, Wess? Occult knowledge? Because according to DC's first post here, his temperature did *not* come back and things did *not* go fine, as your post assured him they would. As Tweev said, and as DC later confirmed, something else was affecting his temperature, namely a defective thermometer. He wasn't as specific in his diagnosis as Fidel, but he certainly was more on target than you were...I'm not sure how you can possibly dispute that. Too bad you were in such a hurry to troll Tweev instead offering useful advice.

HELP - Post-Mortem: Dry Brisket

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