GMO's

butt_juice · December 2020

Out of curiosity, where do you stand when it comes to your own personal consumption of GMO's? Personally, I know that the majority of the food myself and my family consume are fresh fruits and vegetables that would not be considered genetically modified by todays definition of the phrase. The animals from which our meat is produced from has likely been fed GMO's at one point in their life, likely toward the end at a feedlot and that doesn't really bother me too much. I make as much meat products as I can by processing my own primal cuts, and if I could raise my own pork, beef and chicken I would do so just to know that I have full control over the entire process. That being said, the supply chain for meat products is just so convenient that I choose to purchase meat, rather than raise my own.

fishlessman · December 2020

fine with them especially with the high prices from the organic marketing scams

butt_juice · December 2020

We also consume some amount of game animals each year. I would say 15-20% of our meat comes from game animals. I'd like to increase that percentage, especially with the cost of domesticated meat sources today.

Kayak · December 2020

No problem with GMO's or conventionally grown produce of any kind. Nature, that creator of cyanide, botulism, and COVID, doesn't consider me so I don't consider her to any great extent. There have actually been bacteria transferring genes from one species to another naturally for quite a long time now. If you stick to eating your food orally, instead of direct injection to the bloodstream, the genetic material can't really get ya'.

PigBeanUs · December 2020

Corn is one of the originally genetically modified plants.

Not many people seem to have a problem with that.

nolaegghead · December 2020

It is true we have been genetically modifying organisms through cross pollination, grafting, selective breeding, etc through natural means for thousands of years.

GMOs, where they are regulated, are defined as genetic modifications *not* through natural means but through laboratory techniques using various vectors to replace genes in DNA. The first commercial GMO plant was a tobacco back in the '80s.

The EU doesn't consider them safe for human consumption (because there's not enough data). Legislation is more lax in the US. Worldwide, feedstock is the main consumer.

I don't know enough to have an opinion, although I'd error on the side of caution. I don't trust the FDA because they're too politically influenced. Don't confuse non-GMOs with organic produce. Those are not mutually exclusive.

rcone · December 2020

Well, it depends on the level of genetic modification; some instances it is just cross pollination, or animal husbandry, while others: is turning on or off specific genes in an animals DNA, to splicing the DNA from three different fish to make a farm raised "salmon". A hybrid apple, or a fatter tastier pig is one thing, I am very leery of these fish.

https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/genetically-engineered-fish-and-the-strangeness-of-american-salmon

Kayak · December 2020

This is a political hot GMO potato, so you might not want to discuss it here. Like a lot of things, the science is pretty clear cut, but some would have you doubt that. The organic industry has a gigantic vested interest, and isn't the most reliable source of info. There is plenty of good data establishing it's safety, and more than 20 years of people eating them with no ill effects.

rcone · December 2020

You say "no ill effects"; why has the rate of food allergies sky rocketed over the last 30 years?

nolaegghead · December 2020

rcone said:

You say "no ill effects"; why has the rate of food allergies sky rocketed over the last 30 years?

There's zero evidence allergies are increasing because of GMO organisms. One of the main hypotheses revolve around changes in how children play. They used to grow up in the yard eating dirt. More and more they are in playpens plugged into a TV.

https://leapsmag.com/why-food-allergies-are-surging/particle-2

GrateEggspectations · December 2020

butt_juice said:

Out of curiosity, where do you stand when it comes to your own personal consumption of GMO's? Personally, I know that the majority of the food myself and my family consume are fresh fruits and vegetables that would not be considered genetically modified by todays definition of the phrase. The animals from which our meat is produced from has likely been fed GMO's at one point in their life, likely toward the end at a feedlot and that doesn't really bother me too much. I make as much meat products as I can by processing my own primal cuts, and if I could raise my own pork, beef and chicken I would do so just to know that I have full control over the entire process. That being said, the supply chain for meat products is just so convenient that I choose to purchase meat, rather than raise my own.

I tend to think that we have very little knowledge about what we are consuming, whether genetically modified or not. A lot of food manufacturers have a vested interest in keeping us in the dark about their methods.

alaskanassasin · December 2020

butt_juice said:

We also consume some amount of game animals each year. I would say 15-20% of our meat comes from game animals. I'd like to increase that percentage, especially with the cost of domesticated meat sources today.

The last deer stomach I was into was full of RR corn (slug ricocheted off a bone)

butt_juice · December 2020

Thank you everyone for your contributions on this topic. I agree that we humans have been breeding plants and animals for selective traits and that isn't really what I'm considering GMO for this discussion. That is really just identifying the result of natural selection and taking advantage of that phenomenon.

When I say GMO I'm talking taking the genetic code that makes one organism resistant to another and implanting it into the code of a totally different organism.

For those of you who are ok with some sort of personal consumption of GMO's, how do you feel about the COVID-19 Vaccine?

I am on the fence. I'm a first responder and my wife is in the medical field so we both are up for the first rounds, both of us have chose to not receive the vaccine for now. She's breast feeding and we intend on trying for another little one before long and are weary of potentially unknown side affects that could impact our fertility/offspring. We take precautions when around others and are very cautious on personal cleanliness and doffing scrubs before entering our house after work. We are both healthy and don't have any health conditions that seem to negatively impact our ability to fend off the virus naturally, should we contract it. FYI we are not anti-vaccine parents or people, our primary concern is the lack of data and long term understanding of the use of this vaccine and mRNA-type vaccines that are a relatively young technology.

Kayak · December 2020

GMO's aren't really any different than what nature gives us. Every species on this planet has it's own 'code', but you don't eat a carrot and start to turn orange. The strands of DNA in the food item are digested by your stomach acid and intestines, and none of them make it into your bloodstream whether natural or not. Again, I'll mention that nature beat us to this also, as our current technique for transferring that DNA is done with bacteria that do it in nature.

nolaegghead · December 2020

Kayak said:

GMO's aren't really any different than what nature gives us. Every species on this planet has it's own 'code', but you don't eat a carrot and start to turn orange. The strands of DNA in the food item are digested by your stomach acid and intestines, and none of them make it into your bloodstream whether natural or not. Again, I'll mention that nature beat us to this also, as our current technique for transferring that DNA is done with bacteria that do it in nature.

Bob, it is true we don't incorporate DNA like the Borg from food we eat. There are some viruses and bacteria that can exchange genetic code (actually a common cause of cancer) but none of this is a safety concern with food we eat.

The issue with GNO foods compared to natural foods is in the proteins and chemicals those foods that can make it to our bloodstream, including metabolites, that aren't found in the unmodified version. Much of the genetic modification is done by inserting code from other organisms, not limited to the same kingdom, phylum or division, class, order, family, genus, species, etc.

We know how our bodies react for the most part eating corn, soy, etc because we've been eating variations of those things for eons. Add some enzyme or protein from something we don't normally eat because it helps resist glyphosate or some insect is hard to evaluate in the long term. These GMO foods have been around for a few decades and the human biology is not yet fully understood.

Kayak · December 2020

Again, most of these things are broken down in digestion. When we can change one specific gene, we CAN know what the results will be, much more so than our 'traditional' foods. Which, by the way, were not studied before we started eating them. Modern varieties developed with traditional methods involve changes to large numbers of genes and tossing out the failures. And we don't know all the changes that come with it.

And I don't know about you, but I don't eat a lot from the human genome.

nolaegghead · December 2020

butt_juice said:

Thank you everyone for your contributions on this topic. I agree that we humans have been breeding plants and animals for selective traits and that isn't really what I'm considering GMO for this discussion. That is really just identifying the result of natural selection and taking advantage of that phenomenon.

When I say GMO I'm talking taking the genetic code that makes one organism resistant to another and implanting it into the code of a totally different organism.

For those of you who are ok with some sort of personal consumption of GMO's, how do you feel about the COVID-19 Vaccine?

I am on the fence. I'm a first responder and my wife is in the medical field so we both are up for the first rounds, both of us have chose to not receive the vaccine for now. She's breast feeding and we intend on trying for another little one before long and are weary of potentially unknown side affects that could impact our fertility/offspring. We take precautions when around others and are very cautious on personal cleanliness and doffing scrubs before entering our house after work. We are both healthy and don't have any health conditions that seem to negatively impact our ability to fend off the virus naturally, should we contract it. FYI we are not anti-vaccine parents or people, our primary concern is the lack of data and long term understanding of the use of this vaccine and mRNA-type vaccines that are a relatively young technology.

The mRNA in the vaccine just instructs cells to make some of the proteins that are on and are unique to the virus. RNA is a one way instruction set - there is no conceivable way it could alter your DNA and result in a future offspring with spikes on his/her head or a third eye. The mRNA in the vaccine puts some of your cells to work making this protein then the body's natural immune system kicks in when it sees the "foreign protein" and you develop some level of immunity.

Fundamentally, it will not modify you or your offspring.

The jury is out (not enough testing) if this is safe for lactating women so I understand if your wife holds off. You, on the other hand, even though you're healthy, are rolling the dice *not* getting the vaccine. Some perfectly healthy young people fall statistically into a category where you end up with micro clots, loss of limbs, nerve damage, lung damage, etc. Seems to me insofar as risk management goes, you are taking more of a risk by not getting immunized with regards to helping raise a family and earning an income. I don't think there's a single reputable doctor that would disagree with me on this. But if you are still worried, freeze some sperm for peace of mind.

Whatever you do, this is a free country and good luck.

nolaegghead · December 2020

Another point with the mRNA is that it gets consumed eventually...hence the 2nd dose for higher efficacy.

HeavyG · December 2020

Crossbreeding is hardly the same thing as transgenic manipulation. One of those things is not like the other.

That said, I try to avoid GMO when possible but it's not a really big deal with me. Not because I'm wary of any possible health impact but just the environmental/Big Ag problems GMO's present.

nolaegghead · December 2020

HeavyG said:

Crossbreeding is hardly the same thing as transgenic manipulation. One of those things is not like the other.

That said, I try to avoid GMO when possible but it's not a really big deal with me. Not because I'm wary of any possible health impact but just the environmental/Big Ag problems GMO's present.

Right. I agree with this. I've been poisoning my body with ethanol for decades (and the worse-for-you acetalaldehyde metabolite) and I'm still alive. The activity of hormone-like compounds and hormone antagonists is very poorly understood. Eventually we'll figure it out. Plenty of "natural" foods have bad components.

alaskanassasin · December 2020

I have grown non gmo and gmo crops. Non gmos require more passes with the sprayer, and a cocktail of herbicides.

JohnEggGio · December 2020

I draw the line at six-legged chickens.

ColbyLang · December 2020

Do y’all think there would be enough crops for the population to eat without GMO’s?

Kayak · December 2020

HeavyG said:

Crossbreeding is hardly the same thing as transgenic manipulation. One of those things is not like the other.

That said, I try to avoid GMO when possible but it's not a really big deal with me. Not because I'm wary of any possible health impact but just the environmental/Big Ag problems GMO's present.

Right. I agree with this. I've been poisoning my body with ethanol for decades (and the worse-for-you acetalaldehyde metabolite) and I'm still alive. The activity of hormone-like compounds and hormone antagonists is very poorly understood. Eventually we'll figure it out. Plenty of "natural" foods have bad components.

'Crossbreeding' isn't much of a commercial venture nowadays. Creating new varieties of plants is primarily done by spraying the genes with chemicals or radiation, seeing what mutations arise, and culling the undesirables. No transgenic genes need apply. Meaning, large numbers of genes mutate, and they aren't sure what all they did.

Look, all life on earth is made of the same basic ingredients, including the building blocks of DNA. I've eaten from all the kingdoms, intentionally or not, and suffered no effects based on their genetics. We are 99% genetically identical to chimps, and some not as large percent identical to frogs, meaning we share the same genes to some extent.

Environmental and Big Ag problems have nothing to do with genetic modification, and they are thoroughly part of the organic industry also. As Alaskanassasin said, less pesticide is a good thing, resistance to disease is good, and more productivity per acre is a big plus for a growing world population.

alaskanassasin · December 2020

ColbyLang said:

Do y’all think there would be enough crops for the population to eat without GMO’s?

Probably not without more farmland.

FarmingPhD · December 2020

ColbyLang said:

Do y’all think there would be enough crops for the population to eat without GMO’s?

Yes and no.

The yes: the US exports a lot of grain, we could suffer a reduction in yield and still be fine by rerouting crops used for non-food supply chains to food only. This would influence costs of other areas outside of the food chain. Other countries would likely suffer as the yield reductions would hurt food supplies elsewhere.

The no - the unknown from above on global impact. Certain places globally won’t take our grain because of GMOs, that group has shrunk significantly as places like South America and China have embraced it.

If we dropped GMOs, the would require more chemicals and likely nastier ones than we have been using,

The technology for weed applied only herbicide is in process with some technology already available that will continue to reduce chemical usage. Where this reduces the need for herbicide resistant crops, the major improvements will come in water usage, lower nitrogen needs, or the unicorn nitrogen fixing corn.

alaskanassasin · December 2020

Farmers are incredibly resilient if you eliminated gmos we would still get you fed.

nolaegghead · December 2020

I'm pro GMO, don't get me wrong.

Botch · December 2020

This thread has clarified many things for me.
And sprouted even more questions.

butt_juice · December 2020

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the tidbits of knowledge. More so I appreciate that we’ve all managed to share differing opinions on two very polarizing topics in a civil manner. Cheers!

caliking · December 2020

I’m having trouble getting past the premise that GMO meat is okay, provided one’s fruit and veg are nonGMO...

GMO's

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