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Rocks BBQ, aka, Stoker Has Closed

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Comments

  • nocartilagehere
    nocartilagehere Posts: 5
    We used to run this splitter box connected with 2 massive jumper cables. I don’t remember the gauge. We’d run 9 probes and 3 fans. 
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    edited April 2020
    BlueRidgeSmokers said:
    brentm said:

    I'd built a box out of my guitar pedal project parts; 4 or 5 Neutrik right angle stereo with solder tabs.  I'd photograph it but it's ugly as sin. 

    I'd just looked up their current rating, and it's 3A

    https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/nmj3hf-s

    Those will do the trick, very good. Heck, take a picture, it can't be worse than my prototype 1-Wire driver :)

    Oh no, it's worse.  PVC sheaths, lead-free solder.  I thought prototype 1-wire driver was a clever way to test that.  What other options are there to test that type of a config? :)   Plus - your prototype is part of Stoker's history. :)

    It seems like if there is a niche for Stoker, it's in the multiple pit department.  That is still something I don't think we'll see from a competitor any time soon.  

    I did have the notion, after looking at those Neutrik connectors of using the PCB version in the Stoker.  Make a super-Stoker capable of passing 3A over one connector. 

    But it looks like you'd have to use jumper wires to the board from one of the Neutrik connectors.  And you'd have to use the threaded barrel of the plug/nut to secure it to the chassis.


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  • Hipplewm
    Hipplewm Posts: 13
    brentm said:
    Hipplewm said:
    BlueRidgeSmokers said:
    brentm said:
    BlueRidgeSmokers said:
    Sure, I appreciate how anecdotal reports can be hard to turn into a diagnosis :)

    I figure my test was practical - I made a 22' extension using zip wire capable of carrying blower current, then zoomed-in for a close look to verify the signal integrity. 1-Wire technical literature talks about distances up to 300m, slew rates, reflections, and can be a little overwhelming (I also tested the extension cable on a DS2480B Stoker II, it worked, but I didn't get pictures).

    The 1-Wire data line (DQ) carries very little current (just the pull-down current from the 1-Wire master, 5V / 1k5 = 3.33mA) and likely can be small, like 26ga. Remember the ground line is the return for both power and signal.

    While the Stoker II has a DS9503 ESD suppressor on DQ, if you start running longish lines outside, you probably want to put additional 5V ESD suppressors at both end of the extension. Long wires have a way of being antennas that pick up electrical storm activity.

    Dana


    Hah, practical in the sense that I wanted to push all three versions to their limits.  And see if there is a difference between the Stoker Wifi, Stoker II and Stoker II (chipped/transistor).

    Load it up with probes, run a couple blowers 20-40 feet.  5CFM and the larger blower pictured above.
    The white Stoker, Stoker WiFi, Stoker II (DS2480B) all use the same DS2480B 1-Wire Master driver. Later Stoker II has the integrated 1-Wire Master.

    As long as you use adequately large wire (18ga or larger) for +5V and ground, I expect the blowers will be happy at 40'.

    Keep in mind, the 1/4" jacks in the Stokers are rated for 1A max; if you parallel blowers connected to a single Stoker jack, you may exceed this independent of the 1-Wire signal integrity.

    Dana

    Is there a way to tell what Stoker II you have - mine was ordered pretty early....

    That was all they said when I asked about multiple pits - each blower MUST be connected directly to the stoker unit - only put probes on the splitters
    I think I'm confusing the minor revision of the Stoker II here.  What Dana is saying is that the Switchcraft jacks (female receivers on the stoker) are rated for 1A.  And the 5CFM stoker fan draws .4a.  Two of those together would be put you near the ceiling of one jack, and you need to leave some wiggle room (20 percent?).

    This would be true for both Stoker II versions.
    BlueRidgeSmokers said:
    brentm said:

    I think I'm confusing the minor revision of the Stoker II here.  What Dana is saying is that the Switchcraft jacks (female receivers on the stoker) are rated for 1A.  And the 5CFM stoker fan draws .4a.  Two of those together would be put you near the ceiling of one jack, and you need to leave some wiggle room (20 percent?).

    This would be true for both Stoker II versions.

    You probably could run a pair of 5CFM blowers off one jack if you were sure the splitter was up to it (adequately-sized wires inside, adequately-rated jacks) but (a) you'd probably have to build that splitter yourself because none of the audio splitters are good enough and (b) it was not a supported configuration :).

    Dana

    Yeah, at the time, I had a 5cfm and a 10cfm, with plans for adding a second 10cfm.  So, that is maybe why he said that.  The Stoker II has an extra jack (I think - again, I don't have them both in the same place now) and that made it very easy to run 3 fans.  The only stipulation he said was to connect each fan directly to the box iirc the conversations he was more worried about overloading the ports not the Y connecter, but then again, this was a few years ago and I am old....
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  • BlueRidgeSmokers
    BlueRidgeSmokers Posts: 107
    brentm said:
     Plus - your prototype is part of Stoker's history. :)

    It seems like if there is a niche for Stoker, it's in the multiple pit department.  That is still something I don't think we'll see from a competitor any time soon.  
    I still use that prototype regularly - in fact, the sticker I'd put on the case fell off and I lost track of which one it was until I checked last week.

    Multiple pits: some people love how expandable the Stoker is, but with that comes UI complexity. One team I know cooks with a pair of BGEs and had a single Stoker controlling both - sanitary set-up - but they ended-up replacing the Stoker with a pair of DigiQs, each one dedicated to a cooker, because it was easier to keep track of in the middle of a contest. Heck, even I once accidentally switched blowers between two cookers once; that's funny when then two cookers are about the same temperature and suddenly seem to go crazy.

    Dana

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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    BlueRidgeSmokers said:
    I still use that prototype regularly - in fact, the sticker I'd put on the case fell off and I lost track of which one it was until I checked last week.

    Multiple pits: some people love how expandable the Stoker is, but with that comes UI complexity. One team I know cooks with a pair of BGEs and had a single Stoker controlling both - sanitary set-up - but they ended-up replacing the Stoker with a pair of DigiQs, each one dedicated to a cooker, because it was easier to keep track of in the middle of a contest. Heck, even I once accidentally switched blowers between two cookers once; that's funny when then two cookers are about the same temperature and suddenly seem to go crazy.

    Dana


    My first thought is to use some color sleeving for bundles or singles.  As it is now, I have two food and one pit probe that I keep in a bundle like this for my egg.  It makes setup and tear down pretty easy, and keeps it tidier-looking.

    https://www.amazon.com/100ft-Expandable-Braided-Sleeving-Sleeve/dp/B074LNGB3G  - Use the colors in the name labels on the stoker.

    Yeah I can see how that would be a challenge...  as food probes are probably changing pits. 

     I wonder if you could add "switched blower detection".  :P


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  • Hipplewm
    Hipplewm Posts: 13
    My blowers and probes are sized by length.  I have a blower, 2 meat and pit probe that are 6', 8' and 10'.  Then I have an extra 8' and 10' meat probe.  This makes it easy to use by size and I have small colored silicone fiel tubing slid over the end to tell them that way as well. and they are labeled like 10-2 food.  This would be 10' second meat probe (2 red silicone rings) and of course food.
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  • BlueRidgeSmokers
    BlueRidgeSmokers Posts: 107
    brentm said:
    BlueRidgeSmokers said:
    I still use that prototype regularly - in fact, the sticker I'd put on the case fell off and I lost track of which one it was until I checked last week.

    Multiple pits: some people love how expandable the Stoker is, but with that comes UI complexity. One team I know cooks with a pair of BGEs and had a single Stoker controlling both - sanitary set-up - but they ended-up replacing the Stoker with a pair of DigiQs, each one dedicated to a cooker, because it was easier to keep track of in the middle of a contest. Heck, even I once accidentally switched blowers between two cookers once; that's funny when then two cookers are about the same temperature and suddenly seem to go crazy.

    Dana


    My first thought is to use some color sleeving for bundles or singles.  As it is now, I have two food and one pit probe that I keep in a bundle like this for my egg.  It makes setup and tear down pretty easy, and keeps it tidier-looking.

    https://www.amazon.com/100ft-Expandable-Braided-Sleeving-Sleeve/dp/B074LNGB3G  - Use the colors in the name labels on the stoker.

    Yeah I can see how that would be a challenge...  as food probes are probably changing pits. 

     I wonder if you could add "switched blower detection".  :P



    Oh, I label my blowers and probes, that wasn't the problem - I was cooking in WSMs at the time and somehow switched the tops between the bottoms. It's a contest, things happen.

    On a serious note, detecting switched blowers strikes me as a relatively hard AI problem :) but there's perhaps a simpler thing a controller could do: generate an alert when the temperature isn't behaving without attempting to diagnose why (it could be low fuel, blower misconfiguration, leaky cooker, something else). Some set of bounds on how long the temperature has to respond to blower action, both under- and over-temperature. Personally, I don't use temperature alarms but a 'cooker fault' might be interesting.

    Cheers,
    Dana

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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    Hipplewm said:
    My blowers and probes are sized by length.  I have a blower, 2 meat and pit probe that are 6', 8' and 10'.  Then I have an extra 8' and 10' meat probe.  This makes it easy to use by size and I have small colored silicone fiel tubing slid over the end to tell them that way as well. and they are labeled like 10-2 food.  This would be 10' second meat probe (2 red silicone rings) and of course food.
    Nice, and even a naming convention!

    I know John used to sell colored bands for the same purpose.  One around the plug end.  Did he sell one around the probe tip end?

    I'd thought about printing different colors of translucent plug ends in ABS to accomplish the same effect.  Not as easy to swap out but not difficult.  Unfortunately, it's really difficult to find good translucent ABS filament right now.
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    BlueRidgeSmokers said:
    Oh, I label my blowers and probes, that wasn't the problem - I was cooking in WSMs at the time and somehow switched the tops between the bottoms. It's a contest, things happen.

    On a serious note, detecting switched blowers strikes me as a relatively hard AI problem :) but there's perhaps a simpler thing a controller could do: generate an alert when the temperature isn't behaving without attempting to diagnose why (it could be low fuel, blower misconfiguration, leaky cooker, something else). Some set of bounds on how long the temperature has to respond to blower action, both under- and over-temperature. Personally, I don't use temperature alarms but a 'cooker fault' might be interesting.

    Cheers,
    Dana

    Ah, I thought maybe you pulled the blowers because you had the lids off longer than the lid-detection cycle.

    Switched lids!  Guh!

    I like your "cooker fault" idea.  And maybe a snooze button for lid-detection.  There have been times when I've pulled the blower because it's trying to raise the temp on an open pit.
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  • BlueRidgeSmokers
    BlueRidgeSmokers Posts: 107
    brentm said:

    I like your "cooker fault" idea.  And maybe a snooze button for lid-detection.  There have been times when I've pulled the blower because it's trying to raise the temp on an open pit.
    As always, the problem is UI - how to easily snooze/cancel an alarm. Not sure how practical this is from a mechanical fab/field reliability perspective, but the DS2413 has a spare PIO pin that is available as an input. Perhaps put a push-button on that PIO located at the blower, so one could push that button to cancel/snooze an alert associated with that blower.

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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    BlueRidgeSmokers said:
    brentm said:

    I like your "cooker fault" idea.  And maybe a snooze button for lid-detection.  There have been times when I've pulled the blower because it's trying to raise the temp on an open pit.
    As always, the problem is UI - how to easily snooze/cancel an alarm. Not sure how practical this is from a mechanical fab/field reliability perspective, but the DS2413 has a spare PIO pin that is available as an input. Perhaps put a push-button on that PIO located at the blower, so one could push that button to cancel/snooze an alert associated with that blower.

    I realize we're pipe dreaming now, Rock's is closed.

    But maybe in this dream, we could use soft buttons on a touch screen.  Ditch the tactile buttons.  I was really impressed with the Controleo3's touch screen.
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  • BlueRidgeSmokers
    BlueRidgeSmokers Posts: 107
    brentm said:

    But maybe in this dream, we could use soft buttons on a touch screen.  Ditch the tactile buttons.  I was really impressed with the Controleo3's touch screen.
    I'm not keen on touch-screens in competition environments, they inevitably get greasy/sticky, but competition is a pretty small percentage of controller use, from what I can tell.

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  • Hipplewm
    Hipplewm Posts: 13
    brentm said:
    Hipplewm said:
    My blowers and probes are sized by length.  I have a blower, 2 meat and pit probe that are 6', 8' and 10'.  Then I have an extra 8' and 10' meat probe.  This makes it easy to use by size and I have small colored silicone fiel tubing slid over the end to tell them that way as well. and they are labeled like 10-2 food.  This would be 10' second meat probe (2 red silicone rings) and of course food.
    Nice, and even a naming convention!

    I know John used to sell colored bands for the same purpose.  One around the plug end.  Did he sell one around the probe tip end?

    I'd thought about printing different colors of translucent plug ends in ABS to accomplish the same effect.  Not as easy to swap out but not difficult.  Unfortunately, it's really difficult to find good translucent ABS filament right now.
    Not sure on what rock sold.  I fly model airplanes and run RC cars.  I have miles of fuel tubing in all kinds of colors.  Mainly to tell the difference between nitro percents and whether it is flight fuel or ground fuel. So, I just re appropriated a bunch and knew where to get the rest of the colors I needed. :)
    I am pretty sure I got the idea because my probes all had a similar silicone piece on the end. I just added colors. 
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    This thread has been deprecated.

    Please see - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1222399/diy-probe-for-rocks-stoker#latest



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  • BlueRidgeSmokers
    BlueRidgeSmokers Posts: 107

    It's been a while, but I noticed a couple of things about this post.
    brentm said:


    Here's a pic of the prototype from dana.  You can see that he soldered wires directly to the pads of an 8 pin TSSOP chip.   Saved them 5 bucks a unit, limited range to 10 feet?  From a mass production standpoint, this makes the most sense.  Most users do not need to run 25-50 feet of cable for a Stoker II installation.  The most they run would likely be 6 feet.  So this is in no way an insult to this production change decision.



    If I can source a Stoker II with the two transistors (my Stoker II has the DS2480 chip intact), I can test this theory.

    This picture is of a proof-of-concept build; this is *not* how that ECR was produced - the PCB was changed when the ECR was incorporated, of course. This is just how I initially proofed this design change. FWIW, I still use that Stoker regularly LOL (killer bench re-work skills ;-)).

    This ECR, as shown elsewhere, did not limit probe-blower extension distance in any practical way; certainly not 10'.

    Also, that's a heck of a photo there and probably ought to give credit to the photographer :-)

    Happy smoking,
    Dana

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  • DaGreekGeek
    DaGreekGeek Posts: 7
    brentm said:
    This thread has been deprecated.

    Please see - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1222399/diy-probe-for-rocks-stoker#latest



    The link to this thread says it's not available. I need help as my probe died and I'm hoping to get a new one made before labor day.
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  • WeberWho
    WeberWho Posts: 11,524
    edited July 2021
    DaGreekGeek said:
    brentm said:
    This thread has been deprecated.

    Please see - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1222399/diy-probe-for-rocks-stoker#latest



    The link to this thread says it's not available. I need help as my probe died and I'm hoping to get a new one made before labor day.

    @DaGreekGeek

    Bigguy136 has a post on how to fix them and the parts you need. He's a wizard with this kind of stuff. There might not be any other options but trying to fix the probe yourself as there as no replacement probes at this point. 

    https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1180672/make-or-repair-your-stoker-pit-probes/p1
    "The pig is an amazing animal. You feed a pig an apple and it makes bacon. Let's see Michael Phelps do that" - Jim Gaffigan

    Minnesota
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  • U_tarded
    U_tarded Posts: 2,083
    DaGreekGeek said:
    brentm said:
    This thread has been deprecated.

    Please see - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1222399/diy-probe-for-rocks-stoker#latest



    The link to this thread says it's not available. I need help as my probe died and I'm hoping to get a new one made before labor day.
    Brentm went down in flames trying to take out the stoker people in the process.  It was quite entertaining but you won’t get probes from him. 
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  • Photo Egg
    Photo Egg Posts: 12,137
    U_tarded said:
    DaGreekGeek said:
    brentm said:
    This thread has been deprecated.

    Please see - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1222399/diy-probe-for-rocks-stoker#latest



    The link to this thread says it's not available. I need help as my probe died and I'm hoping to get a new one made before labor day.
    Brentm went down in flames trying to take out the stoker people in the process.  It was quite entertaining but you won’t get probes from him. 
    Didn’t the Stoker people take themselves out long before @Brentm tried to offer a solution to all the people left hanging with nowhere to buy parts?
    Thank you,
    Darian

    Galveston Texas
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  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 34,686
    U_tarded said:
    DaGreekGeek said:
    brentm said:
    This thread has been deprecated.

    Please see - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1222399/diy-probe-for-rocks-stoker#latest



    The link to this thread says it's not available. I need help as my probe died and I'm hoping to get a new one made before labor day.
    Brentm went down in flames trying to take out the stoker people in the process.  It was quite entertaining but you won’t get probes from him. 
    Yep.  I’m afraid the strain was more than he could bear.  
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    "The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." - Deep Throat
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  • WeberWho
    WeberWho Posts: 11,524
    Photo Egg said:
    U_tarded said:
    DaGreekGeek said:
    brentm said:
    This thread has been deprecated.

    Please see - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1222399/diy-probe-for-rocks-stoker#latest



    The link to this thread says it's not available. I need help as my probe died and I'm hoping to get a new one made before labor day.
    Brentm went down in flames trying to take out the stoker people in the process.  It was quite entertaining but you won’t get probes from him. 
    Didn’t the Stoker people take themselves out long before @Brentm tried to offer a solution to all the people left hanging with nowhere to buy parts?
    I believe he stepped up when Stoker mentioned that they would no longer be selling accessories. 
    "The pig is an amazing animal. You feed a pig an apple and it makes bacon. Let's see Michael Phelps do that" - Jim Gaffigan

    Minnesota
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  • U_tarded
    U_tarded Posts: 2,083
    WeberWho said:
    Photo Egg said:
    U_tarded said:
    DaGreekGeek said:
    brentm said:
    This thread has been deprecated.

    Please see - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1222399/diy-probe-for-rocks-stoker#latest



    The link to this thread says it's not available. I need help as my probe died and I'm hoping to get a new one made before labor day.
    Brentm went down in flames trying to take out the stoker people in the process.  It was quite entertaining but you won’t get probes from him. 
    Didn’t the Stoker people take themselves out long before @Brentm tried to offer a solution to all the people left hanging with nowhere to buy parts?
    I believe he stepped up when Stoker mentioned that they would no longer be selling accessories. 
    Yes he did, then he said it was a fire hazard and went off the rail.  As with most the good reading around here I think the thread(s) where things got good was zapped. 
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  • PeteSliver
    PeteSliver Posts: 153
    I miss brentm, one of the few honest people around here and he got roasted because his opinions weren’t popular.
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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,920
    PeteSliver said:
    I miss brentm, one of the few honest people around here and he got roasted because his opinions weren’t popular.
    Hmmm, the guy got roasted because he lost it…. on an online forum.  FWIW, the work he’s done was kinda cool but I think that he invested $$$ in a probe repair/replacement business just to realize that the device was fundamentally flawed and potentially dangerous… and then freaked out.  This was a serious breakdown and I hope that he is doing better now.  The guy called me into a thread asking me for my opinion, I told him that I didn’t have one but he insisted and wasn’t happy about my answer…

    I seem to remember that he searched for and published someone’s personal contact info but was pissed off when someone else found his own personal info and posted it.  He then did everything he could to kill the threads 🤷‍♂️

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,109
    Brentm was hyper-manic for some reason (off the meds is my guess).  I'm sure it felt great but probably not for the price.
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • Photo Egg
    Photo Egg Posts: 12,137
    nolaegghead said:
    Brentm was hyper-manic for some reason (off the meds is my guess).  I'm sure it felt great but probably not for the price.
    I followed a couple of the threads on and off. Most of the technical stuff was way over my head and skill set. I guess I missed the big drama at the end. 
    Much respect for his time and effort he put into this venture. Unlike the lazy in me that just switched brands.
    Thank you,
    Darian

    Galveston Texas
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