Uyghur-style lamb ribs with homemade alkaline noodles

caliking · September 2019

It was pissing rain (again) today. Came home midday because the office closed early. Figured I would test a cook that's been haunting me for the past week or so.

Don't know why, but I've had a sudden hankering for lamian (hand-pulled noodles) and so started researching how to make them. Its a weird rabbit hole to dive into. Learned way more about noodle chemistry than I ever thought I would. Uyghur friends of ours have fed us some amazing food in the past, so I knew I wanted lamb ribs in the mix.

Started with pulling out the last of the pork stock made from the piggies some of us in TX raised a while back. Added the stock, spices, Better Than Bouillon (beef, vegetable) to the IP and let it go for a few hours.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/53/guxffymrltza.jpg

Then started working on the alkaline noodles... and failed. The secret ingredient that makes the dough super stretchy is "lye water" (which I found), but I just couldn't get the dough to stretch. Kneaded the fvck out of it and still no love. Damn gluten. Settled for rolling out the dough as thin as I could, and then cut it into wide-ish noodles.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/q6/v7qkiv70491g.jpg

Seasoned the lamb ribs with salt, sichuan pepper, coriander, gochugaru (Korean chile powder), and cumin.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/re/209utybtx33t.jpg

Seared on the egg.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/1g/ctd0ifyaycf8.jpg

Put it all together. Dressed with lime juice, chili oil, scallions (don't know why the colors look a bit jacked up)

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/7a/6g0hxvpnbemz.jpg

Holy shite! This was freakin' amazing. Talk about an explosion of flavors in your mouth. As disappointed as I was with not being able to hand pull the noodles, they turned out pretty damn well - slippery, slightly chewy, and so darn good in the broth flavored with the chopped lamb ribs. This cook made me happy

R2Egg2Q · September 2019

Looks and sounds great!

YukonRon · September 2019

This is where you, again, prove to all...you are a far better man than I.

After the first speed bump, I would have gone to the grocery store, and bought egg noodles and said "fück it."

If they did not work, I would have fired up the egg and thrown on a couple of ribeyes, as well as, pulling a cork, thereby pronouncing the evening meal done.

My 9 to 5 is nowhere near the stress you have, yet, I barely have the drive at the end of the day, to even want to make Kraft Mac and Cheese in the microwave (I have, mind you, but I struggled).

However, you, the superhero you are, drive through a tropical storm, determined to find the ingredients after doing tons of research, and deliver a meal as spectacular as it is astonishing.

Another outstanding cook and even better post, Superman.

I truly expect nothing less.

Mattman3969 · September 2019

Top Freakin Notch Dude!

bubbajack · September 2019

Bad a$$ cook! Now I am really wanting to eat.

caliking · September 2019

Thanks for the kind words.

@YukonRon luckily I shopped for groceries on Wed when the weather wasn't as bad. Was nasty yesterday, and I ended up with an unexpected afternoon off. With the house (and kitchen) to myself, there wasn't much else to do

caliking · September 2019

Mattman3969 said:

Top Freakin Notch Dude!

Thanks!

Have you tried Sichuan pepper? I know you cook with a lot of Asian flavors, so you might like it. Not quite peppery, but it has a tingly, slightly numbing sort of effect on the tongue. It's a neat flavor to play with.

Griffin · September 2019

Wow!! Just wow! And with the weather you are having on top of it? Simply amazing.

theyolksonyou · September 2019

I hang my head in shame and self doubt.

SciAggie · September 2019

So much to comment on...
First some friendly advice: Don’t wear black robes when you cook this... You might be accused of alchemy or magic. I’m not sure I could process some of those words through google translate. The first plate of ingredients looks like you picked them up on Diagon Alley. See an above comment “it has a tingly, slightly numbing sort of effect on the tounge” Dude, they don’t tell you that at Kroger- where you been shoppin’?

Second, I always admire your persistence when you tackle a new challenge. Your Naan bread threads come to mind. It’s nice to not only gain new cooking skills but also to learn some new food science. Understanding why our foods cook the way they do and how to process them is entertaining in its own right.

And finally - just wow! The food looks delicious.

I hope you are safe from the storms and floods. Thanks for making me feel like a slacker today.

caliking · September 2019

You made me chuckle, @SciAggie. I had 2 other things going concurrently, so the kitchen did look like something was going to explode, or already had, for some time.

In the past couple of years, I've become much more interested in why certain recipes work, especially ones where texture is important. The chemistry behind these noodles is interesting, and I'm definitely going to play around with it some more. The goal is to figure out how to make hand pulled noodles (lamian) in the next couple of weeks.

The storm seems to have moved east, so things are clearing up. Some flooding Houston, but its much worse east of the city.

Theophan · September 2019

I'm just in awe. Never HEARD of this, don't have a clue about what it's like, but WOW, just way too cool!

I just watched a YouTube video of some guy making lamian noodles (again, I'd never heard of them before!), and it was amazing. Just amazing. He seemed to be repeatedly stretching the dough, not just kneading it, the whole time, over and over again. Stretch, fold, stretch, fold, stretch, fold, repeat x 1 million. FINALLY, after resting them for a while, like MAGIC he stretched them into fine noodles. Just in awe.

Thanks for sharing this concept, and even if the noodles didn't work out the way you hoped, the lamb and the whole dish look and sound AMAZING. Just so cool I can't see straight.

Botch · September 2019

Everyone was talking about you struggling with the weather, I finally noticed you live in Houston! I thought you were in California (don't know where I got that idea

).
I make homemade noodles often, but through the KitchenAid roller attachment, have never tried hand-stretched. Hat's Off!

smokingal · September 2019

Top notch cooking, @caliking. Top notch indeed.

caliking · September 2019

@Botch the moniker stuck from college, as I'm from Calcutta (now Kolkata).

I almost pulled out the KA roller, but it was just easier to roll the dough out and cut. I may try that though.

Apparently, Italians make alkaline pasta too, but I can't recall ever seeing a recipe anywhere.

caliking · September 2019

Theophan said:

I'm just in awe. Never HEARD of this, don't have a clue about what it's like, but WOW, just way too cool!

I just watched a YouTube video of some guy making lamian noodles (again, I'd never heard of them before!), and it was amazing. Just amazing. He seemed to be repeatedly stretching the dough, not just kneading it, the whole time, over and over again. Stretch, fold, stretch, fold, stretch, fold, repeat x 1 million. FINALLY, after resting them for a while, like MAGIC he stretched them into fine noodles. Just in awe.

Thanks for sharing this concept, and even if the noodles didn't work out the way you hoped, the lamb and the whole dish look and sound AMAZING. Just so cool I can't see straight.

I've watched MANY of those videos! I think they are ubercool as well. The experts can make thin noodles within minutes, without even one broken noodle.

The key seems to be that the alkali breaks down the gluten, which makes the dough super stretchy. The problem is that I can't find precise ratios for alkali:water:flour, so I'll just have to figure it out by trial and error. Many recipes online call for cake flour, but that's sort of cheating. Having said that, I bought cake flour so i could try some of those recipes too.

Botch · September 2019

caliking said:

Theophan said:

I just watched a YouTube video of some guy making lamian noodles (again, I'd never heard of them before!), and it was amazing. Just amazing. He seemed to be repeatedly stretching the dough, not just kneading it, the whole time, over and over again. Stretch, fold, stretch, fold, stretch, fold, repeat x 1 million. FINALLY, after resting them for a while, like MAGIC he stretched them into fine noodles. Just in awe.

I've watched MANY of those videos! I think they are ubercool as well. The experts can make thin noodles within minutes, without even one broken noodle.

Well, you two just pushed me down a rabbit hole on a rainy afternoon!

I could've swore they did stretched noodles on America's Test Kitchen, but a separate video isn't on EweTube (or, at least, not in the top 75 or so).
This looks like fun, and I've added it to the list.

caliking · September 2019

Botch said:

caliking said:

Theophan said:

I just watched a YouTube video of some guy making lamian noodles (again, I'd never heard of them before!), and it was amazing. Just amazing. He seemed to be repeatedly stretching the dough, not just kneading it, the whole time, over and over again. Stretch, fold, stretch, fold, stretch, fold, repeat x 1 million. FINALLY, after resting them for a while, like MAGIC he stretched them into fine noodles. Just in awe.

I've watched MANY of those videos! I think they are ubercool as well. The experts can make thin noodles within minutes, without even one broken noodle.

Well, you two just pushed me down a rabbit hole on a rainy afternoon!

I could've swore they did stretched noodles on America's Test Kitchen, but a separate video isn't on EweTube (or, at least, not in the top 75 or so).
This looks like fun, and I've added it to the list.

You're welcome

Canugghead · September 2019

I'm from Calcutta too, damn, you make me feel like Calipauper

We saw a pulled noodle demo on a cruise ship, just insane. Need a video next time you try it! Now you know why I was intimidated to cook when you visited, haha. btw, glad you didn't post this in the 'What are you doing right now?' thread because I'm only "11k new" behind, lol! Also glad you all are safe.

blind99 · September 2019

damn that looks delicious.
hand pulled noodles are black magic.

TTC · September 2019

We’re not worthy!!!!!

WeberWho · September 2019

That looks and sounds amazing. Wow!

SciAggie · September 2019

blind99 said:

hand pulled noodles are black magic.

@caliking See? There’s that magic reference again...

JohnInCarolina · September 2019

Awesome!

caliking · September 2019

Canugghead said:

I'm from Calcutta too, damn, you make me feel like Calipauper
We saw a pulled noodle demo on a cruise ship, just insane. Need a video next time you try it! Now you know why I was intimidated to cook when you visited, haha. btw, glad you didn't post this in the 'What are you doing right now?' thread because I'm only "11k new" behind, lol! Also glad you all are safe.

Thanks for the praise, Gary but I'm fairly certain that you've forgotten more about cooking and BBQ than what I can remember

We are doing fine here. More rain today, but not what it's been like in the past few days.

Theophan · September 2019

caliking said:
... The key seems to be that the alkali breaks down the gluten, which makes the dough super stretchy...

I know NOTHING about this, so why am I presuming to say ANYTHING, but fools rush in... Are you sure you don't have that backward? The guy in the video seemed to be doing everything that you would normally expect to DEVELOP gluten, not get rid of it! I would have thought that gluten would hold long, stretching strands together, and that without gluten, instead of stretching, they'd just break. And I noticed that they used all-purpose flour. If they'd wanted low-gluten surely they would have used cake flour.

Again, you clearly know more about this than I do, cuz I know NOTHING about this kind of noodles. Just asking.

Mattman3969 · September 2019

caliking said:

Mattman3969 said:

Top Freakin Notch Dude!

Thanks!

Have you tried Sichuan pepper? I know you cook with a lot of Asian flavors, so you might like it. Not quite peppery, but it has a tingly, slightly numbing sort of effect on the tongue. It's a neat flavor to play with.

caliking said:

Mattman3969 said:

Top Freakin Notch Dude!

Thanks!

Have you tried Sichuan pepper? I know you cook with a lot of Asian flavors, so you might like it. Not quite peppery, but it has a tingly, slightly numbing sort of effect on the tongue. It's a neat flavor to play with.

Will definitely check it out. Thanks for the tip

caliking · September 2019

@Theophan by Jove, I think you've got it!

I'm only a few days ahead of you re: researching how to make these noodles. Different online sources have conflicting suppositions. One source that is often referred to is http://www.lukerymarz.com/noodles/ and he (like many others) takes a low gluten approach, using cake flour. Which conflicts with the idea that you need more, well developed gluten in the dough. Watched enough youtube videos to end up with a half-baked idea of what was needed, I guess

I had seen this video earlier, but did not pay close enough attention the first time I watched it. Went back and watched it carefully, and yes, it seems that the goal is stronger gluten. I thought the alkali breaks down gluten, but it in fact stregthens gluten. The paper he cites at about 5:00 was helpful in understanding this.

https://youtu.be/FAzonLpYhRA

I'm experimenting some more with this today. Thank you for the course correction!

Botch · September 2019

^^^ Ironically that's one of the videos I watched, and he reads off the total weight of protein in the three bags, not necessarily the percentages. The first two bags (next to each other in his local grocery) were probably the same size, but the bag in the chinese market looked a bit smaller, so even at 11 grams it probably had a higher percentage of protein/gluten. I dunno.

caliking · September 2019

Botch said:

^^^ Ironically that's one of the videos I watched, and he reads off the total weight of protein in the three bags, not necessarily the percentages. The first two bags (next to each other in his local grocery) were probably the same size, but the bag in the chinese market looked a bit smaller, so even at 11 grams it probably had a higher percentage of protein/gluten. I dunno.

I watched the video (again!) and the protein weight is stated per 100g for all the flours he mentions, assuming that all of the protein comes from the gluten in the flour.

1st German flour= 12%
2nd German flour= 12%
Chinese flour= 11%
"Special" Chinese flour= 10%

KAF AP flour states on the bag that its 11.7% protein, but if you look at the nutrition facts label it calculates as 13.3%.

KAF unbleached cake flour is stated to be 10% protein according to their website, but calculates as 12.5% per the label on the bag. Pillsbury Softasilk cake flour is 9.4% per the label.

These seem like minor differences in protein content. I thought cake flour was much lower, about 5%, but apparently not. Still, it may be worthwhile to try the cake flour with alkali to make a dough that has lower, but stronger gluten.

Thanks for pointing this out. I previously thought using cake flour would be a shortcut/workaround, but maybe its not.

Theophan · September 2019

caliking said:

... Different online sources have conflicting suppositions... yes, it seems that the goal is stronger gluten. I thought the alkali breaks down gluten, but it in fact strengthens gluten...

That video was really good! The guy seemed to have a great attitude and was fun to watch. He seems to be assuming, though, that "increased gluten strength" only affects the texture of the final product, the chewiness, and only the salt affects the ability to stretch it. I don't think this is possible. Again, that long, long process seems perfectly designed to develop gluten! If they wanted low gluten, they'd have rested it over and over again, and NOT kept working it, working it, working it like that. I think you're right: Even cake flour has a fair bit of gluten in it, and if you work it and work it like that, you're going to be developing what gluten is in it like crazy. I think a flour with NO gluten would break, NOT stretch!

I also don't know if he was getting the full effect of the alkali by mixing it in only after the dough was made. I don't know whether it mixed in as thoroughly, and had the ability to affect all of the gluten the same way. It would have been interesting if he'd begun from scratch with no alkali and then began from scratch again with alkali.

But again, I'm just being an armchair general, what do I know.

THANK you again for turning me on to the existence of this kind of noodle. It's just fascinating! Almost makes me want to give it a try, but I'm so lazy I probably won't. I'll sure be interested to hear how you progress, though!

Uyghur-style lamb ribs with homemade alkaline noodles

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