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Elements of pizza fail

steel_egg
steel_egg Posts: 295
in EggHead Forum

So to all you pizza gurus. I’ve been trying to up my pizza game. Wasn’t really having issues but figured there was room for improvement. I’ve made a couple batches of the 24-48 hour pizza dough. First issue. Never really get a good rise. I understand it’s a thinner crust so I’m not too bothered. The biggest issue is the dough is so hard to mix. It seems to wet. I follow the measurements to a T. I feel most of the dough sticks to my hands. Is this normal or should I make some changes?

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Comments

  • Lowcountrygamecock
    Lowcountrygamecock Posts: 416

    I had a similar bad experience with elements of pizza 24-48 hour dough. Mine wasn’t sticky but it had absolutely no rise and didn’t turn out like I wanted. Haven’t had time to try again but it’s coming soon.

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  • hoosier_egger
    hoosier_egger Posts: 6,808

    What type of flour and hydration? Are you letting the dough come to room temp before trying to stretch?

    ~ John - Formerly known as ColtsFan  - https://www.instagram.com/hoosier_egger
    XL BGE, LG BGE, Med BGE, BGE Chiminea, Ardore Pizza Oven
    Bloomington, IN - Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoosiers!

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  • Eggcelsior
    Eggcelsior Posts: 14,414

    There are a lot of variables here. Are you weighing your ingredients? What is the relative humidity? Did you test your yeast to ensure it's active enough? Is your water too hot? What recipe are you following too? That will be a good starting point knowing that, at least.

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  • steel_egg
    steel_egg Posts: 295

    I’m using 00 Americana. Weighed everything and used my thermapen to check water temp. Yeast was just purchased but no sugar in this recipe to add in the water to get that bubbling of it starting. Relative humidity? No clue. the recipient is the 24-48 hour pizza dough. Page 118.

    To answer @ColtsFan I’m just struggling mixing the damn dough. It’s just too wet. Let us rest per instructions for 20 before a knead and rise. Floured hands it worked fine but that initial mix is a pain. And the only way to get it off my hands was in the sink. Sacrificed dough amounts.

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  • steel_egg
    steel_egg Posts: 295

    The dough just doesn’t want to rise either. Never had this problem with other recipes. Doesn’t seem to use any sugar in this book.

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  • hoosier_egger
    hoosier_egger Posts: 6,808

    @steel_egg I happen to have Caputo Americana on hand. Hold tight, let me go mix a batch

    ~ John - Formerly known as ColtsFan  - https://www.instagram.com/hoosier_egger
    XL BGE, LG BGE, Med BGE, BGE Chiminea, Ardore Pizza Oven
    Bloomington, IN - Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoosiers!

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  • Carolina Q
    Carolina Q Posts: 14,831
    edited March 2019

    I'm not familiar with that book or recipe. I've been using Jim Lahey's no knead recipe and have been pleased. Plus, I can make it in the morning and have pizza for dinner. Eight hours for bulk rise (he says 8-18), then ball it and let those rise on the counter for an hour or so. I used to mix it with a wooden spoon until I discovered the dough whisk. Awesome tool!

    Lahey calls for AP flour. I use bread. He also uses active dry yeast. I use SAF Instant. And I do use a scale, except for the yeast and salt - I don't trust it for light weights.

    Here are a couple of fairly recent pies...

    Pepperoni sausage red pepper 3.jpg DSC_0579.jpg DSC_0582.jpg

    Recipe... Jim Lahey's No Knead Pizza Dough | Serious Eats : Recipes

    Dough whisk (No financial or other interest, I just like it)... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002PABWJQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

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  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 34,709

    @steel_egg there’s no sugar in part because sugar burns at high temps.

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    "The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." - Deep Throat
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  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 34,709

    Also, try reducing your hydration to 62 percent.

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    "The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." - Deep Throat
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  • hoosier_egger
    hoosier_egger Posts: 6,808

    The initial mix at 70% hydration is pretty wet, but still manageable. Let's see how it handles after the rise and knead. Like @JohnInCarolina said, I usually target 60-63% hydration when using the Ardore.

    20190328_193521.jpg


    ~ John - Formerly known as ColtsFan  - https://www.instagram.com/hoosier_egger
    XL BGE, LG BGE, Med BGE, BGE Chiminea, Ardore Pizza Oven
    Bloomington, IN - Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoosiers!

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  • steel_egg
    steel_egg Posts: 295

    That looks quite a bit drier than what I did. My hands were covered and a sticky mess.

    I cook my pies around 550. Never had a burnt pie with my other recipes that used sugar.

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  • steel_egg
    steel_egg Posts: 295

    Should mention I would typically use my stand mixer with a dough hook.

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  • TEXASBGE2018
    TEXASBGE2018 Posts: 3,831
    edited March 2019

    Your recipe sounds like mine. The 1st rest it’s super wet with about 70% hydration. But after that it is fine. I had a problem with rise the 1st few times. I have found that once I let it rise overnight in the fridge taking it out and letting it rise AT room temp not TO room temp has helped. I usually start stretching when it’s around 60 degrees. When forming my pizza I try to not get rid of all the bubbles in the crust. This has helped me get a good rise. All that said I am using my home oven at 500 degrees with the grate elevated towards the top of my oven. Below is mine after the 20min 1st rest for tomorrow night using Caputo “00” flour

    image.jpg



    Rockwall, Tx    LBGE, Minimax, 22" Blackstone, Pizza Party Bollore. Cast Iron Hoarder.

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  • steel_egg
    steel_egg Posts: 295

    I just put mine in balls and in the fridge for the night. All good after that initial mix. I did notice last time how delicate the dough was too work with. Very smooth. Just not much rise. I’ll have to try some other recipes. The biga sounded interesting.

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  • hoosier_egger
    hoosier_egger Posts: 6,808

    On to the 2 hour rise. Still manageable up to this point. If you aren't getting to this point I would be curious as to if you're weighing the ingredients or mixing by volume? I use scales for flour and water and micro scales for yeast and salt. Also get your hands in there. It sounds like your flour isn't getting properly hydrated when using the stand mixer.

    20190328_200228.jpg


    ~ John - Formerly known as ColtsFan  - https://www.instagram.com/hoosier_egger
    XL BGE, LG BGE, Med BGE, BGE Chiminea, Ardore Pizza Oven
    Bloomington, IN - Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoosiers!

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  • steel_egg
    steel_egg Posts: 295

    I used my hands on this recipe. I use the stand mixer on my other recipes. I tried following these as closely as I can. And that means using my hands. I am weighing everything out as well. It’s just that initial mix where it’s an absolute mess and sticky. After that it’s ok.

    Maybe I just need to get after it longer on that initial mix. Guess I’ll just have to make some more.

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  • steel_egg
    steel_egg Posts: 295

    @ColtsFan thanks for taking the time to help me out. I’ll be curious to see how these pies turn out.

    Amd where do the quote button go?

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  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 34,709

    @steel_egg - 550 is about the highest you can cook a dough with sugar in it. Much higher and you will burn the bottom. I’d suggest reading the beginning of the Elements of Pizza book where he breaks some of this down, discussing in particular hydration and temperature.

    I would also suggest getting your hands on some Caputo Blue flour.

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    "The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." - Deep Throat
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  • Hoster05
    Hoster05 Posts: 312

    one thing I have implemented into my pizza dough's comes from the Ken Forkish book, its letting the dough proof in the fridge, taking it out and working it into place cold. I have had great success with this.

    Mankato, MN - LBGE
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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,109

    If you have super chlorinated water it can kill the yeast. I use bottled water.


    If that turns out to be your problem, I would also start drinking bottled water.

    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • steel_egg
    steel_egg Posts: 295

    @nolaegghead Interesting. Never had that problem before. I also don’t taste it.


    Im cooking some pies from the dough in question. Pics to follow a little later.

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  • steel_egg
    steel_egg Posts: 295

    So here is the verdict. First one I spread out and hand tossed to get pretty thin. Not my favorite. Wife liked it. I like more of a rise. Second one I just did a firm by hand on the table. Little thicker pie. Much more my taste. I guess my complaint comes down to how sticky the dough is in the initial mix. After that no issues. Here are some pics.

    17AABF84-51CA-48C0-998B-B3089313448D.jpeg


    48E86639-1C69-4F4B-A42C-15136CFB4482.jpeg


    3ED3046E-6952-4ED9-8948-B7D2A0FD8AC4.jpeg


    50C46BEC-35FE-456F-A606-06149101CA8A.jpeg


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  • steel_egg
    steel_egg Posts: 295

    Guess the site makes you do 1 at a time. And it mixes the order. Oh well. It is what is. Happy Friday folks. And thanks to everyone who helped.

    @ColtsFan I’m hoping to see some pics of the dough you mixed up on my behalf. Thanks for you input.

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  • hoosier_egger
    hoosier_egger Posts: 6,808
    https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/comment/2420189#Comment_2420189

    I think it will get turned into garlic knots tomorrow :)

    ~ John - Formerly known as ColtsFan  - https://www.instagram.com/hoosier_egger
    XL BGE, LG BGE, Med BGE, BGE Chiminea, Ardore Pizza Oven
    Bloomington, IN - Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoosiers!

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