Baking pie or pizza bottom goes faster than top

Maulas · October 2018

Hi,

I am the happy owner of a BGE Large, but have some difficulty to get good even results baking apple pie or pizza's.
I always use the plate setter, legs up stainless steel grid and pizza stone. When the bottom is good, the top is not brown enough. When the top is brown, the bottom is black, so overcooked. Using a raised grid, so cooking higher in the dome give better results as it's closer to the dome. Temperature is not the issue.
I don't understand that this setup is needed...when I read recipes on the BGE website, they just use the normal setup and the results look awesome.
I recently also bought a Minimax and have to try baking on it. Maybe it will work better with a smaller dome, closer to the food?

I am interested to hear about other peoples experience.

Thanks,
Maulas

DWFII · October 2018

I'm not an expert but I had the same problem. I think I solved it by turning the platesetter legs down and reducing the distance from my pizza stone to the platesetter. I think I am using a two inch gap now, rather than three.

But the big deal was turning the platesetter legs down..

Maulas · October 2018

You mean, platesetter legs down and pizza stone directly on top? Tried that too, but only makes the stone hotter, thus browning the bottom quicker. Distance to the ceramic dome stays more or less the same. For me this setup doesn't make a big difference, but thanks for sharing

BobDanger · October 2018

I use the ceramic 3” blocks I picked up from the CGS.

using 00 flour also made my pizzas come out great.

ryantt · October 2018

I go with the plate set her legs up and use 6 inch kiln shelf legs to place my pizza stone on this end up putting it higher up in the dome. Getting it a little higher up in the dome it cooks more evenly. Here is a picture of the kiln shelves legs

JohnInCarolina · October 2018

What dough are you using and what temperature are you trying to cook your pizza at?

DWFII · October 2018

Maulas said:

You mean, platesetter legs down and pizza stone directly on top?

No, I have two cooking grids--the OEM grid and a little smaller one. I put stainless steel bolts on the upper grid. They have large washers on them. They sit on, and in the space between the rungs of the original grid...which sits on the legs down plate setter. Fortunately, since the platesetter is a three point shape, the bolts may be attached such that they don't sit directly on the platesetter.

The pizza stone goes on the top of the smaller grid. As mentioned above this leaves a space, depending on the length of the stainless steel bolts, between the pizza stone and the platesetter of between 2"-4". The pizza stone is well up in the dome.

[shrug] YMMV but it works for me. I heat the stone up to about 500° to 550°. Checked with a laser/infrared therm.

Maulas · October 2018

JohnInCarolina said:

What dough are you using and what temperature are you trying to cook your pizza at?

When I make pizza, I use the type 00 dough from Italy. I cook my pizza's at 300 Celsius, which is 572 Fahrenheit. Pizza bottom and taste was great only top could be more brown. Yesterday baked an apple pie and waited when the upper was brown (90 minutes at 180 Celsius - 356 Fahrenheit). By that time the bottom was black. Should have taken it out after 60 minutes, but the top was still not brown at that time.
I have two half moon raised grids and next time I will use following setup:
platesetter legs up, Stainless Steel grid, two half moon raised grids with pizza stone on top. This way the stone is high in the dome getting more heat from above. I got confirmation from @DWFII and @ryantt that this is apparently necessary to get a good even browning on top and bottom for pizza's and baking a pie or cake. I just find it strange that this is needed although Big Green Egg doesn't say anything about this in their recipes...
I will also try baking on my Minimax and see if that's any different compared to the Large. I expect that because of the smaller distance to the dome it will give a more even browning on top and bottom. I will post my experience to this thread.
Anyway, thanks for all your suggestions!

JMJ · October 2018

Are you located in Europe? (Given the celsius part). If so, I would very much recommend the Fredstone. You buy it from Denmark. No more burnt bottoms, I promise!

Maulas · October 2018

JMJ said:

Are you located in Europe? (Given the celsius part). If so, I would very much recommend the Fredstone. You buy it from Denmark. No more burnt bottoms, I promise!

Yes located in Europe (Netherlands) and will read about the Fredstone. Thanks!

Stormbringer · October 2018

Maulas said:

JMJ said:

Are you located in Europe? (Given the celsius part). If so, I would very much recommend the Fredstone. You buy it from Denmark. No more burnt bottoms, I promise!

Yes located in Europe (Netherlands) and will read about the Fredstone. Thanks!

Greetings from a fellow European Egger and pizza enthusiast! I'm in the UK.

Could you post some pictures of your current setup? 300C is a good temperature with legs up and at the felt line, something doesn't sound right.

Also, I've cooked pizza in the Large and MMX, better results from the Large. FWIW, this is my pizza setup, raising into the dome :

Image: https://thecooksdigest.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/bge-setup1.jpg?w=640

which is described in more detail in this blog post:

https://www.thecooksdigest.co.uk/2016/08/24/cooking-pizza-with-a-big-green-egg/

and this is the dough I use:

https://www.thecooksdigest.co.uk/2018/06/29/new-and-improved-pizza-dough-recipe/

that consistently gets results like this:

Image: https://thecooksdigest.files.wordpress.com/2018/06/crust-browning-during-baking-640.jpg?w=640

unoriginalusername · October 2018

For pizza I heat up with the stone in to about 600-700 and then shut the daisy wheel and the temp quickly drops to about 400.

Once stops dropping quickly I open it up and let the heat come back up. Now the ceramic and everything is hot so when it’s reading the temp it’s actually that temp and not just a flame kissing the temp gauge.

I cool the stone with a wet cloth and put the pizza on. I can do four or five and they each come out the same and take the same amount of time and with the dome hot I gind it cooks / broils the top better. I aim to cook above 600 so my time per pie is 4:30

Reluts like this

1voyager · October 2018

Maulas said:

You mean, platesetter legs down and pizza stone directly on top? Tried that too, but only makes the stone hotter, thus browning the bottom quicker. Distance to the ceramic dome stays more or less the same. For me this setup doesn't make a big difference, but thanks for sharing

I do platesetter legs down with 2 inch ceramic spacers between it and the pizza stone.

Heat the stone for 1 hour @ 600 degrees F.

8 - 9 minutes to perfect pie every time.

The only other thing that I can think of is the amount of toppings. Too many toppings will result in the problem you described.

Good luck and have fun.

Maulas · October 2018

Stormbringer said:

Could you post some pictures of your current setup? 300C is a good temperature with legs up and at the felt line, something doesn't sound right.

Setup I tried (not raised). Bottom pizza was good but not so brown on top.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/ig/67y40vpto1ls.jpg

Something I didn't try before, but will next time (higher in the dome):

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/qu/2mpdc2tblmj1.jpg

Maulas · October 2018

unoriginalusername said:

For pizza I heat up with the stone in to about 600-700 and then shut the daisy wheel and the temp quickly drops to about 400.

Once stops dropping quickly I open it up and let the heat come back up. Now the ceramic and everything is hot so when it’s reading the temp it’s actually that temp and not just a flame kissing the temp gauge.

I cool the stone with a wet cloth and put the pizza on. I can do four or five and they each come out the same and take the same amount of time and with the dome hot I gind it cooks / broils the top better. I aim to cook above 600 so my time per pie is 4:30

That's interesting and a good way to heat up the dome. Something I want to try next time!

Foghorn · October 2018

You've gotten some great suggestions. Three other thoughts.

1) You have to match your pizza thickness with the cooking temp. Thin pizzas can be cooked at 700+ degrees. Chicago deep dish cooks at 350 or so for about 40 minutes. I wanted to be someone who cooks at 700 degrees but I haven't yet perfected my pizza making to get the dough and everything else that thin and I've settled in at 450-500 gives me the best results for the pies I make.

2) In the egg the heat invariably comes from the bottom. If you want to have it cook your pie (pizza or otherwise) more like an oven you really have to do as mentioned above and make sure that when the dome temp is reading a certain temp it is not just flame/fire/rising heat but really an assessment of the entire environment. This takes a while.

3) I think a layer of foil on your lower grate (or on the platesetter) below the pizza stone would solve your problem. It should be at least as large as your pizza stone, but not so large as to significantly obstruct airflow.

1voyager · October 2018

@Maulas - Regarding your first picture, placing the pizza stone directly on the platesetter is most likely the problem, IMHO. There needs to be space between the platesetter and pizza stone.

To clarify on my previous input, when I mentioned "pie" I meant pizza pie. I have zero experience in making apple pie. Sorry for the confusion.

Stormbringer · October 2018

@Maulas the first picture is what I suspected, there’s no air gap between the platesetter and stone. This will mean the stone temp is too high. Having an air gap, however you do this, will fix.

Good luck with the next one.

jetman96 · October 2018

You didn't mention what your dough recipe is, but I'm guessing your dome temperature is too high. If you have any oil or sugar in your dough, you don't want to go much higher than 450-500 *F on the dome, or especially the stone. Keep it high in the dome and you should be good.

victor1 · October 2018

Lots of good suggestions... I've had good luck with PS legs up, SS grid, raised BGE grid and BGE pizza stone. Bake at about 700 plus and the bottom is crispy, top done just right. Caputo 00 flour. (have tried red bag and blue, both seem pretty much the same)

jtcBoynton · October 2018

The key is to get the stone close enough to the dome to get the right amount of radiant heat coming off the dome. If the stone is too far from the dome, the toppings will not be done by the time the dough is cooked. If the stone is too close to the dome, the toppings will burn by the time the dough is cooked. The proper height will depend on the dough recipe, cooking temp, dough thickness, and amount of toppings. Many find the sweet spot to have the stone 2-3" above the felt line - but remember you will need to dial it in for yourself. We all make our pizzas a little different so take all the advice as a starting point and make adjustments for your personal style.

caliking · October 2018

In that first pic you posted, you need an air gap between the PS and stone. Many ways to to do that - foil balls, copper T’s, ceramic feet, etc. The second pic should work well to get the pie higher in the dome, but you should add the PS somewhere below it, otherwise the stone will get too hot.

@Foghorn, stretching the dough over a steel bowl dusted with flour will get it pretty thin without a rolling pin. Rolling will get it thin, but will also degas the dough. Much easier to handle than trying to stretch it out over your hands.

Still working on the pizza, but you get the idea.

Maulas · October 2018

caliking said:

In that first pic you posted, you need an air gap between the PS and stone. Many ways to to do that - foil balls, copper T’s, ceramic feet, etc. The second pic should work well to get the pie higher in the dome, but you should add the PS somewhere below it, otherwise the stone will get too hot.

Plate setter is in, you don’t see it because it’s black because of usage

Maulas · October 2018

I also got feedback from a pit master that if you have more air flow, the pie will get better cooked and browner on top. Question is how to achieve this without letting the temperature rise too much. Maybe open the top completely and control with the bottom vent?

Maulas · October 2018

caliking said:

@Foghorn, stretching the dough over a steel bowl dusted with flour will get it pretty thin without a rolling pin. Rolling will get it thin, but will also degas the dough. Much easier to handle than trying to stretch it out over your hands.
Still working on the pizza, but you get the idea.

I use these instructions on Foodtube:

http://foodtube.nl/pizzacollege-pizza-bakken-deel-2-van-2/

Unfortunately in dutch but you will get the idea. For me this results in nice round pizza's.

Stormbringer · October 2018

Maulas said:

I also got feedback from a pit master that if you have more air flow, the pie will get better cooked and browner on top. Question is how to achieve this without letting the temperature rise too much. Maybe open the top completely and control with the bottom vent?

I cook pizza at 375C-400C, no daisy wheel and the bottom vent open, if I need to control it I use the bottom vent.

jtcBoynton · October 2018

Maulas said:

I also got feedback from a pit master that if you have more air flow, the pie will get better cooked and browner on top. Question is how to achieve this without letting the temperature rise too much. Maybe open the top completely and control with the bottom vent?

Airflow - size of fire - heat produced - temperature ---- all directly connected. I can't see how to increase airflow without a temperature increase. Was the pit master talking about an egg? Eggs are designed to control temp by controlling the airflow.

Pizza is cooked by heat transfer from above and below. The crust requires far more heat than the toppings. This is accomplished by using conduction from below and radiant and convective heat from above. The only way to adjust the balance in an egg is to move the pizza closer or farther from the top (the source of the radiant heat).

caliking · October 2018

Maulas said:

caliking said:

In that first pic you posted, you need an air gap between the PS and stone. Many ways to to do that - foil balls, copper T’s, ceramic feet, etc. The second pic should work well to get the pie higher in the dome, but you should add the PS somewhere below it, otherwise the stone will get too hot.

Plate setter is in, you don’t see it because it’s black because of usage

Oops! Sorry, didn’t notice it.

Maulas · October 2018

jtcBoynton said:

Airflow - size of fire - heat produced - temperature ---- all directly connected. I can't see how to increase airflow without a temperature increase. Was the pit master talking about an egg? Eggs are designed to control temp by controlling the airflow.

Pizza is cooked by heat transfer from above and below. The crust requires far more heat than the toppings. This is accomplished by using conduction from below and radiant and convective heat from above. The only way to adjust the balance in an egg is to move the pizza closer or farther from the top (the source of the radiant heat).

I agree with you that higher in the dome seems most effective, which is also what I learned from all reactions (thanks

). Yes he was talking about an Egg in the context of baking an apple pie in which case you cook at a much lower temp compared to pizza. I guess what he means is that I started with too high temperature in the beginning and to stabilize temperature I closed the vents a bit which chokes the air flow. In this case with choked or limited airflow, the upper pie will not brown so much. What would have been better is start at a bit lower temperature and open the vents slowly the last 15 to 30 minutes, in which case temperature will rise and also improve airflow. My question is, does this airflow improve the browning or is it just the higher dome temperature or both?

jtcBoynton · October 2018

My question is, does this airflow improve the browning or is it just the higher dome temperature or both?

Both. More air flow means more molecules are hitting the pie surface. Higher temps means more energy in each molecule.

Woody · October 2018

My wife has been wanting pizza for a while as I usually go out after golf with the buds to the local brew pub and pizza.
So I broke down and cooked some pies over the weekend. Had the same issue with the bottoms getting done before the top even though the pie was elevated.
I think the biggest issue though was I overshot my planned temp of 500 degrees by a hundred. By the time i noticed we were both hungry.
I pulled the cap off and had the lower vent pretty wide open on my large.

Question to the group - how do you regulate to get about 500 degrees.

Baking pie or pizza bottom goes faster than top

Comments

Categories