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  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 34,682
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:

    P.S. You being one of the smart guys around here, I am trying do some research and find the ideal temperature for the entire planet Earth as measured over the whole Earth throughout an individual year. Can you help as you are well read in this area?
    To be clear, you're looking for an ideal mean surface temperature, right?  How are you quantifying "ideal" ?  I'm not sure your question is particularly well posed TBH.
    Exactly. Now you are on to something. 

    OK. Well, I'm not sure what you've been doing for research, but you might want to check out this text:

    https://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming-Understanding-David-Archer/dp/1405140399

    We use it in our introductory EOS courses here because it's accessible to a fairly broad audience.  I also personally like that it is written by one of my colleagues in computational science.  
    My question is: What is the ideal temperature supposed to be? Is it what it is now? Is it 2 degrees cooler? Is it 5 degrees warmer? What is the correct, or ideal temperature supposed to be? Simple question. Me being less learned, I thought I would ask those more capable.
    Yes, I have a pretty good handle on what you're asking. That's why I suggested David's book.  It's a good place to start.  
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    "The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." - Deep Throat
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  • JethroVA
    JethroVA Posts: 1,251
    @RRP I hear you brother.  It takes me 10 hours to get 8 hours of sleep.

    Richmond and Mathews County, VA. Large BGE, Weber gas, little Weber charcoal. Vintage ManGrates. Little reddish portable kamado that shall remain nameless here.  Very Extremely Stable Genius. 
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  • HeavyG
    HeavyG Posts: 10,380
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:

    P.S. You being one of the smart guys around here, I am trying do some research and find the ideal temperature for the entire planet Earth as measured over the whole Earth throughout an individual year. Can you help as you are well read in this area?
    To be clear, you're looking for an ideal mean surface temperature, right?  How are you quantifying "ideal" ?  I'm not sure your question is particularly well posed TBH.
    Exactly. Now you are on to something. 

    OK. Well, I'm not sure what you've been doing for research, but you might want to check out this text:

    https://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming-Understanding-David-Archer/dp/1405140399

    We use it in our introductory EOS courses here because it's accessible to a fairly broad audience.  I also personally like that it is written by one of my colleagues in computational science.  
    My question is: What is the ideal temperature supposed to be? Is it what it is now? Is it 2 degrees cooler? Is it 5 degrees warmer? What is the correct, or ideal temperature supposed to be? Simple question. Me being less learned, I thought I would ask those more capable.
    The question you should probably be asking is not what the ideal temperature for Earth is, cuz Earth don't care. The perhaps better question is what is the ideal temperature for the bulk of the dominant species on the planet.

    The vast majority of humans and human civilization has enjoyed a fairly stable/temperate climate for many thousands of years. A changing global climate in a compressed timeframe poses transitions that billions of people likely won't be able to adjust to in a calm, peaceful, orderly, affordable way.

    That's the problem, not simply that the mean global temp is going up or down a couple degrees
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk




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  • Acn
    Acn Posts: 4,490
    HeavyG said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:

    P.S. You being one of the smart guys around here, I am trying do some research and find the ideal temperature for the entire planet Earth as measured over the whole Earth throughout an individual year. Can you help as you are well read in this area?
    To be clear, you're looking for an ideal mean surface temperature, right?  How are you quantifying "ideal" ?  I'm not sure your question is particularly well posed TBH.
    Exactly. Now you are on to something. 

    OK. Well, I'm not sure what you've been doing for research, but you might want to check out this text:

    https://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming-Understanding-David-Archer/dp/1405140399

    We use it in our introductory EOS courses here because it's accessible to a fairly broad audience.  I also personally like that it is written by one of my colleagues in computational science.  
    My question is: What is the ideal temperature supposed to be? Is it what it is now? Is it 2 degrees cooler? Is it 5 degrees warmer? What is the correct, or ideal temperature supposed to be? Simple question. Me being less learned, I thought I would ask those more capable.
    The question you should probably be asking is not what the ideal temperature for Earth is, cuz Earth don't care. The perhaps better question is what is the ideal temperature for the bulk of the dominant species on the planet.

    The vast majority of humans and human civilization has enjoyed a fairly stable/temperate climate for many thousands of years. A changing global climate in a compressed timeframe poses transitions that billions of people likely won't be able to adjust to in a calm, peaceful, orderly, affordable way.

    That's the problem, not simply that the mean global temp is going up or down a couple degrees
    Crichton had that in Jurassic Park - "The planet is not in jeopardy, we are in jeopardy."

    LBGE

    Pikesville, MD

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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,109
    Acn said:
    HeavyG said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:

    P.S. You being one of the smart guys around here, I am trying do some research and find the ideal temperature for the entire planet Earth as measured over the whole Earth throughout an individual year. Can you help as you are well read in this area?
    To be clear, you're looking for an ideal mean surface temperature, right?  How are you quantifying "ideal" ?  I'm not sure your question is particularly well posed TBH.
    Exactly. Now you are on to something. 

    OK. Well, I'm not sure what you've been doing for research, but you might want to check out this text:

    https://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming-Understanding-David-Archer/dp/1405140399

    We use it in our introductory EOS courses here because it's accessible to a fairly broad audience.  I also personally like that it is written by one of my colleagues in computational science.  
    My question is: What is the ideal temperature supposed to be? Is it what it is now? Is it 2 degrees cooler? Is it 5 degrees warmer? What is the correct, or ideal temperature supposed to be? Simple question. Me being less learned, I thought I would ask those more capable.
    The question you should probably be asking is not what the ideal temperature for Earth is, cuz Earth don't care. The perhaps better question is what is the ideal temperature for the bulk of the dominant species on the planet.

    The vast majority of humans and human civilization has enjoyed a fairly stable/temperate climate for many thousands of years. A changing global climate in a compressed timeframe poses transitions that billions of people likely won't be able to adjust to in a calm, peaceful, orderly, affordable way.

    That's the problem, not simply that the mean global temp is going up or down a couple degrees
    Crichton had that in Jurassic Park - "The planet is not in jeopardy, we are in jeopardy."
    Crichton famously built an argument against climate change science in "State of Fear".  I read that and was all: wtf?!
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 34,682
    edited December 2016
    Focusing on the mean temp is also a bit of a red herring in this context.  By definition it does not characterize the spatial variability which is arguably just as important in terms of understanding impacts.  

    The mean temp is just the most common focus of predictions because it distills a lot of information down to a single value which can then be plotted as a function of time.  Much easier to get a Congress critter to digest an x-y plot than an evolving surface contour.  But it's important to understand that it only characterizes the magnitude of the first mode.  

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    "The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." - Deep Throat
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  • HeavyG
    HeavyG Posts: 10,380
    Acn said:
    HeavyG said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:

    P.S. You being one of the smart guys around here, I am trying do some research and find the ideal temperature for the entire planet Earth as measured over the whole Earth throughout an individual year. Can you help as you are well read in this area?
    To be clear, you're looking for an ideal mean surface temperature, right?  How are you quantifying "ideal" ?  I'm not sure your question is particularly well posed TBH.
    Exactly. Now you are on to something. 

    OK. Well, I'm not sure what you've been doing for research, but you might want to check out this text:

    https://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming-Understanding-David-Archer/dp/1405140399

    We use it in our introductory EOS courses here because it's accessible to a fairly broad audience.  I also personally like that it is written by one of my colleagues in computational science.  
    My question is: What is the ideal temperature supposed to be? Is it what it is now? Is it 2 degrees cooler? Is it 5 degrees warmer? What is the correct, or ideal temperature supposed to be? Simple question. Me being less learned, I thought I would ask those more capable.
    The question you should probably be asking is not what the ideal temperature for Earth is, cuz Earth don't care. The perhaps better question is what is the ideal temperature for the bulk of the dominant species on the planet.

    The vast majority of humans and human civilization has enjoyed a fairly stable/temperate climate for many thousands of years. A changing global climate in a compressed timeframe poses transitions that billions of people likely won't be able to adjust to in a calm, peaceful, orderly, affordable way.

    That's the problem, not simply that the mean global temp is going up or down a couple degrees
    Crichton had that in Jurassic Park - "The planet is not in jeopardy, we are in jeopardy."
    That's where I get all my knowledge - from fiction writers...like Fox News, Breitbart, Limbaugh, etc.  B)
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk




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  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
    HeavyG said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:

    P.S. You being one of the smart guys around here, I am trying do some research and find the ideal temperature for the entire planet Earth as measured over the whole Earth throughout an individual year. Can you help as you are well read in this area?
    To be clear, you're looking for an ideal mean surface temperature, right?  How are you quantifying "ideal" ?  I'm not sure your question is particularly well posed TBH.
    Exactly. Now you are on to something. 

    OK. Well, I'm not sure what you've been doing for research, but you might want to check out this text:

    https://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming-Understanding-David-Archer/dp/1405140399

    We use it in our introductory EOS courses here because it's accessible to a fairly broad audience.  I also personally like that it is written by one of my colleagues in computational science.  
    My question is: What is the ideal temperature supposed to be? Is it what it is now? Is it 2 degrees cooler? Is it 5 degrees warmer? What is the correct, or ideal temperature supposed to be? Simple question. Me being less learned, I thought I would ask those more capable.
    The question you should probably be asking is not what the ideal temperature for Earth is, cuz Earth don't care. The perhaps better question is what is the ideal temperature for the bulk of the dominant species on the planet.

    The vast majority of humans and human civilization has enjoyed a fairly stable/temperate climate for many thousands of years. A changing global climate in a compressed timeframe poses transitions that billions of people likely won't be able to adjust to in a calm, peaceful, orderly, affordable way.

    That's the problem, not simply that the mean global temp is going up or down a couple degrees
    Ok. Then answer your own question. The first one, not the gobbley goop stuff you mentioned in the second paragraph. 
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  • HeavyG
    HeavyG Posts: 10,380
    pgprescott said:
    HeavyG said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:
    JohnInCarolina said:
    pgprescott said:

    P.S. You being one of the smart guys around here, I am trying do some research and find the ideal temperature for the entire planet Earth as measured over the whole Earth throughout an individual year. Can you help as you are well read in this area?
    To be clear, you're looking for an ideal mean surface temperature, right?  How are you quantifying "ideal" ?  I'm not sure your question is particularly well posed TBH.
    Exactly. Now you are on to something. 

    OK. Well, I'm not sure what you've been doing for research, but you might want to check out this text:

    https://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming-Understanding-David-Archer/dp/1405140399

    We use it in our introductory EOS courses here because it's accessible to a fairly broad audience.  I also personally like that it is written by one of my colleagues in computational science.  
    My question is: What is the ideal temperature supposed to be? Is it what it is now? Is it 2 degrees cooler? Is it 5 degrees warmer? What is the correct, or ideal temperature supposed to be? Simple question. Me being less learned, I thought I would ask those more capable.
    The question you should probably be asking is not what the ideal temperature for Earth is, cuz Earth don't care. The perhaps better question is what is the ideal temperature for the bulk of the dominant species on the planet.

    The vast majority of humans and human civilization has enjoyed a fairly stable/temperate climate for many thousands of years. A changing global climate in a compressed timeframe poses transitions that billions of people likely won't be able to adjust to in a calm, peaceful, orderly, affordable way.

    That's the problem, not simply that the mean global temp is going up or down a couple degrees
    Ok. Then answer your own question. The first one, not the gobbley goop stuff you mentioned in the second paragraph. 
    The fact that you think the second paragraph is "gobbley goop" explains your problem.

    Hey...still waiting for that list of top three news outlets you read/listen to. Top two is fine if that will make it easier for you. :)
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk




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  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
    No answer though. Correct? How much has the temp changed over the last thousand years or so?
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  • onedbguru
    onedbguru Posts: 1,648
    The problem is really that the scientific community as a whole cannot agree on anything climate related. Then there was the massive data manipulation that occurred from one org that was the source of most of the data (fact not fiction). Anyone not agreeing with the doomsayers, gets shunned and shouted down (hmmm much like anyone who disagrees with liberal ideology).  There is no real data that links human activity to climate change. They were saying in the 70's, that the turn of the century we would be in a mini ice age. Wonder what happened to that? 

    During the time they claim C02 (the food for ALL green plants on the planet) increases, we have had massive wildfires, volcanic eruptions and a lot of other "natural" disasters that contribute to those numbers.  Ice has melted in the NP, but grown at an exponential rate at the SP.  I have a hard time trying to measure the depth (exactly)  on a fluid body the size of the ocean. Just sayin'

    The truth is, THEY DON'T REALLY KNOW. 
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  • Eoin
    Eoin Posts: 4,304
    pgprescott said:
    No answer though. Correct? How much has the temp changed over the last thousand years or so?
    Reliable records are not available for that timescale, so there's some guesswork involved. For example, we know that in the UK there were regular frost fairs on the Thames in the 16th century and periods of colder weather reported before then, so it is warmer now. However, going back futher to times BC there is evidence of successful farming activity in (now) marginal areas such as higher ground and areas further North like the Scottish Islands and Greenland which indicates a considerably warmer climate, at least locally.

    Clearly, the ideal global mean temperature depends where you live and how high above sea level you live (although predicted catastrophic sea level rises have not materialised so far).
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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,109
    PLEASE KEEP CONSPIRACY THEORIES OFF MY THREAD.  THANK YOU.  
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
    nolaegghead said:
    PLEASE KEEP CONSPIRACY THEORIES OFF MY THREAD.  THANK YOU.  
    If you're here and we're here, doesn't that make it our thread Mr Hand?

     By Conspiracy you mean pointing out things that people make hypothesis upon that are obviously unknowable? 
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  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 34,682
    edited December 2016
    Perhaps a textbook on climate is too ambitious. I'll see if I can find one on the scientific method.
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    "The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." - Deep Throat
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  • JustineCaseyFeldown
    JustineCaseyFeldown Posts: 867
    onedbguru said:


    The truth is, THEY DON'T REALLY KNOW. 
    this can be said about electricity too, and gravity, too.  they don't "really know" what those two things are.

    but there is enough evidence in support of the current consensus (albeit one which is continually developing, not fixed and 'known') which allows us to pretty much predict exactly what will happen when we interact with those two phenomena.




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  • SemolinaPilchard
    SemolinaPilchard Posts: 1,282
    onedbguru said:
     Anyone not agreeing with the doomsayers, gets shunned and shouted down.   Case in point
    PLEASE KEEP CONSPIRACY THEORIES OFF MY THREAD.  THANK YOU. 
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  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
    JustineCaseyFeldown said:
    onedbguru said:


    The truth is, THEY DON'T REALLY KNOW. 
    this can be said about electricity too, and gravity, too.  they don't "really know" what those two things are.

    but there is enough evidence in support of the current consensus (albeit one which is continually developing, not fixed and 'known') which allows us to pretty much predict exactly what will happen when we interact with those two phenomena.




    BS
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  • onedbguru
    onedbguru Posts: 1,648
    SemolinaPilchard said:
    onedbguru said:
     Anyone not agreeing with the doomsayers, gets shunned and shouted down.   Case in point
    PLEASE KEEP CONSPIRACY THEORIES OFF MY THREAD.  THANK YOU. 

    This is not a CT - There were many scientist in the current NOAA that were fired because they did not agree with "climate change". FACT not Conspiracy.  Sorry to burst anyone's bubble. 
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  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
    Why did the "scientists" just start to add the ocean temps into their "earth" temperature data? Why now after a hundred years of not doing so? Is it to present a false narrative of warming that the real data didn't show? Hmmm. I am sure it's standard procedure to make major changes in your methods during experiments, right? Nothing to see here! 
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  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
    Hey, what is that ideal temp for the earth, or the inhabitants? Which ever you would like to answer. What if it's 10 degrees warmer and that would benefit the most area of the earth? How does one determine that? How did that big hole in the ozone go away? Cmon guys! Little help here, please! 
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  • SemolinaPilchard
    SemolinaPilchard Posts: 1,282
    edited December 2016
    onedbguru said:
    SemolinaPilchard said:
    onedbguru said:
     Anyone not agreeing with the doomsayers, gets shunned and shouted down.   Case in point
    PLEASE KEEP CONSPIRACY THEORIES OFF MY THREAD.  THANK YOU. 

    This is not a CT - There were many scientist in the current NOAA that were fired because they did not agree with "climate change". FACT not Conspiracy.  Sorry to burst anyone's bubble. 
    You are right. I messed up with my post, I was trying to show an example of how anyone disagreeing with the "sky is falling" crowd is shouted down, like nolaegghead's response to you. Sorry for the screw up. By all means, carry on. :)
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  • SemolinaPilchard
    SemolinaPilchard Posts: 1,282
    pgprescott said:
    Hey, what is that ideal temp for the earth, or the inhabitants? Which ever you would like to answer. What if it's 10 degrees warmer and that would benefit the most area of the earth? How does one determine that? How did that big hole in the ozone go away? Cmon guys! Little help here, please! 
    They won't answer because they can't answer. Just like none of them can answer how a ship loaded with global warming "experts" who tell us they know how thick the ice will be 100 years from now got stuck in ice. If you are clueless how thick the ice will be tomorrow, how in the hell are you going to convince me that you know how thick it will be in a century?
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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,109
    Nah.  This is just noise.
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
    this has been enlightening. I'm going completely off the grid, like Al Gore. After all, it's the moral thing to do. 
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  • SGH
    SGH Posts: 28,988
    nolaegghead said:
    Nah.  This is just noise.

    Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.

    Status- Standing by.

    The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. 

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  • SemolinaPilchard
    SemolinaPilchard Posts: 1,282
    Al Gore? Didn't he say that the planet has a fever?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyV2cPLuFuA
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  • Focker
    Focker Posts: 8,364
    Nola noise.
    https://youtu.be/OZ7AQVE-aRY

    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,109
    All you Mensa members should start a thread about junk science and formulate your theorem for submission to the scientific community.  Everyone will get an "atta-boy" from each other!
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • SGH
    SGH Posts: 28,988
    nolaegghead said:
    Mensa
    That's a mighty "gay" sounding word there. 

    Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.

    Status- Standing by.

    The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. 

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