Done with Royal Oak

stlcharcoal · July 2016

msloan said:

Lit said:

This thread is stupid. It's not Royal Oak doing anything it's the retailers. It's like me saying Rockwood sucks because they raised their prices 20%because ace is charging $25 a bag when firecraft is $21. It's not the company doing it.

do you really believe that? you honestly believe that the manufacturer has no say what so ever in what they charge for the product they created when they sell it wholesale to retailers?????

if they have no input into what the value of their product is that they created and incurred all the cost to create then how do they make profit? and how do they increase or maintain profit when the cost of creating the goods increase? do you think they never pass along those increases to retailers?

i'm not saying retailers dont play a part in this but come on, giving the manufacturer a pass is not applicable in this scenario.

When dealing with a big box store, they say "We're going to guarantee to buy this much and we're going to pay you this much per unit." It's up to each manufacturer to figure out how much they can put in a bag/box for that offer.

The reason that the big box wants to maintain a certain price vs. bag size, is they have proprietary data on customers--demographics, billions of dollars in sales, focus groups, etc. These billion dollar businesses invest millions in tracking you, your spending habits, and more. They have determined that the best price for charcoal in their store is $12.95 or whatever. So they figure out how much margin of that they need/want, then set the price they'll pay for it. As long as the bag is large enough in size so the customer perceives it as a value, then they're happy.

I just don't understand the need for the blame here......prices go up. It can either be less quantity, or more money (or cost cutting in the manufacturing process=lower quality.) An educated consumer should check the weight/quantity. Don't worry--we're staying at 20# since we don't sell to big boxes.

Chubbs · July 2016

Not Royal Oaks fault. I actually think the product has gotten better as of late. I was at the in laws over the weekend and used his egg all weekend long. He had RO and I was surprised at its performance. It seemed a lot less smokey than before, didnt have the strong smell it used to, nice sized pieces, lit easily, and burned very well. That is a lot of positives for the price of a bag.

smokeyw · July 2016

A product or service is worth as much as anyone is willing to pay for it. That is simple economics. If I'm not happy with a product, I move on and look for another. If enough people do this, the manufacturers will adjust to stay in the market. I use Royal Oak and have been happy with it, even though I do find some "non lump" items occasionally. To me it is economical and performs well. Are there some better quality products out there? Absolutely. But for now, I am satisfied with the value I am getting from RO.

jtcBoynton · July 2016

DieselkW said:

Surprised no one commented on the original theft of the per pound size - Coffee.
16oz is now 12oz and still the price is jacked. Those "bricks" are 11.5oz.
...

I still buy coffee that comes in 1 pound bags. Still buy ice cream in half gallon cartons. Not all manufacturers are playing the downsizing game. Sadly, graham crackers come with 9 crackers per package instead of the historical 10 - messes up every recipe that based the amount of graham cracker on the standard packaging.

Acn · July 2016

They're trying to maximize their profits, it's the American way. Now for every 320 lbs of lump that can sell 20 bags instead of 16.

fishlessman · July 2016

you guys are talking nickels and dimes, look at new truck prices

The Cen-Tex Smoker · July 2016

tarheelmatt said:

I say you call Royal Oak just like this guy called Jimmy Dean sausage.

https://youtu.be/f4RNb3tt0LM

Damnit Matt. Was just coming here to post this. One of my all time faves.

Legume · July 2016

fishlessman said:

you guys are talking nickels and dimes, look at new truck prices

Not to mention they're using aluminum and other lighter materials. You're getting less truck while they're raising prices. Sneaky bastards.

The Cen-Tex Smoker · July 2016

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

tarheelmatt said:

I say you call Royal Oak just like this guy called Jimmy Dean sausage.

https://youtu.be/f4RNb3tt0LM

Damnit Matt. Was just coming here to post this. One of my all time faves.

And apparently, Mr Taylor's words did not fall on deaf ears. I noticed just the other day that the 16oz roll of Jimmy Dean is back baby!

Steve619 · July 2016

Wow, never expected this level of response, actually, I wasn't looking for any response, just expressing my view. I like Royal Oak, I don't like what I view as deceptive packaging. Looks the same but downsized. When ever the quantity is increased it's "10% extra, same price" but not the other way. Good marketing? O.K..... don't care if it's the manufacturer, the retailer. or wall street. The beautiful thing about America is freedom of choice. I choose not to support this type of "marketing". Your mileage may vary.

tarheelmatt · July 2016

Steve619 said:

Wow, never expected this level of response, actually, I wasn't looking for any response, just expressing my view. I like Royal Oak, I don't like what I view as deceptive packaging. Looks the same but downsized. When ever the quantity is increased it's "10% extra, same price" but not the other way. Good marketing? O.K..... don't care if it's the manufacturer, the retailer. or wall street. The beautiful thing about America is freedom of choice. I choose not to support this type of "marketing". Your mileage may vary.

But you kinda openly posted this on a BBQ/grill/BGE forum. You could have just wrote that in your diary then.

smokeyw · July 2016

Steve619 said:

Wow, never expected this level of response, actually, I wasn't looking for any response, just expressing my view. I like Royal Oak, I don't like what I view as deceptive packaging. Looks the same but downsized. When ever the quantity is increased it's "10% extra, same price" but not the other way. Good marketing? O.K..... don't care if it's the manufacturer, the retailer. or wall street. The beautiful thing about America is freedom of choice. I choose not to support this type of "marketing". Your mileage may vary.

I get what you are saying but I don't think you realize just how many companies are doing this exact same thing. I can even remember when a potato chip bag wasn't half air.

Legume · July 2016

This thread is good entertainment. I get how change in size can impact a recipe when can or box is the unit of measure, or creates waste when everything is scaled for a size. Being honest, it doesn't really chap me, I don't feel ripped off. I still need lump, I still buy coffee, the math is just a little different if I am going to be comparison shopping.

What I really wonder about is how Mr Taylor noticed the missing 4oz of Jimmy Dean when they were serving it with "a couple a dozen fried eggs" for five people.

I'm glad my employer periodically raises their prices, it means I will continue to get a raise and a bonus every year.

Gunnar · July 2016

Legume said:

This thread is good entertainment. I get how change in size can impact a recipe when can or box is the unit of measure, or creates waste when everything is scaled for a size. Being honest, it doesn't really chap me, I don't feel ripped off. I still need lump, I still buy coffee, the math is just a little different if I am going to be comparison shopping.

What I really wonder about is how Mr Taylor noticed the missing 4oz of Jimmy Dean when they were serving it with "a couple a dozen fried eggs" for five people.

I'm glad my employer periodically raises their prices, it means I will continue to get a raise and a bonus every year.

If you don't raise prices eventually it equals a pay cut.....

Lit · July 2016

msloan said:

Lit said:

This thread is stupid. It's not Royal Oak doing anything it's the retailers. It's like me saying Rockwood sucks because they raised their prices 20%because ace is charging $25 a bag when firecraft is $21. It's not the company doing it.

do you really believe that? you honestly believe that the manufacturer has no say what so ever in what they charge for the product they created when they sell it wholesale to retailers?????

if they have no input into what the value of their product is that they created and incurred all the cost to create then how do they make profit? and how do they increase or maintain profit when the cost of creating the goods increase? do you think they never pass along those increases to retailers?

i'm not saying retailers dont play a part in this but come on, giving the manufacturer a pass is not applicable in this scenario.

Walmart sells the same sized bag at the same price they did last year but Home Depot shrunk the bag and charged the same price. If one changed and one didn't I would say it's the retailer right?

HeavyG · July 2016

Steve619 said:

... I choose not to support this type of "marketing". Your mileage may vary.

I'm guessing that there are a lot of products from a lot of manufacturers that you are no longer buying then. It ain't just a Royal Oak thing.

Charcoal_Addict · July 2016

I quit buying RO becuase they raised the price to a point where it didn't make much difference between buying RO and buying a better brand in Canada. Sometime you can buy better lump on sale for cheaper than you can buy a bag of RO in Canada.

captjo · July 2016

stlcharcoal said:

Don't blame them for it.....it's the big box retailers, and it's with EVERYTHING.

Big Box Retailer tells them "we want to sell a bag for $9.95 and it needs to be a certain dimention". The manufacturer needs to figure out how much they can put in that bag or box and still make money.

In order to maintain the same volume, some will get really tricky and make the product more bulky, porous, ridged, etc. You can't really do that with lump charcoal, but companies did it with briquettes years ago under the guise of "helping it light"......now briquette occupies the same amount of space in the bag, yet are 10-15% lighter per volume.

There are tons of packaging publications, stuidies, conferences, etc. It's all about what the eye sees, the weight you feel when you pick it up, and the PERCEIVED value with the price on the sticker.

In the end, the price per pound was going up regardless.....whether a higher price for the same sized bag, or the same price for a smaller bag. The powers that be, figured they could better market with a smaller bag. BTW, smaller bags mean more paper and labor go into each pallet; so, it's not a simple equation of "cut 2# off a 20# bag = save 10%."

As always, very well stated sir! I agree wholeheartedly.

KiterTodd · July 2016

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

tarheelmatt said:

I say you call Royal Oak just like this guy called Jimmy Dean sausage.

https://youtu.be/f4RNb3tt0LM

And apparently, Mr Taylor's words did not fall on deaf ears. I noticed just the other day that the 16oz roll of Jimmy Dean is back baby!

Ha, you know what I have noticed now, though? They now have tubes of the sausage marked "Natural" with pretty earth tone coloring instead of the bright colors. Those are only a little bit more than the standard sausage... but they are in the 12 oz. packages!

So if you do a quick side by side price check, you might say "I'll grab the one with less preservatives, same price!" Nope.

nolaegghead · July 2016

smokeyw said:

Steve619 said:

Wow, never expected this level of response, actually, I wasn't looking for any response, just expressing my view. I like Royal Oak, I don't like what I view as deceptive packaging. Looks the same but downsized. When ever the quantity is increased it's "10% extra, same price" but not the other way. Good marketing? O.K..... don't care if it's the manufacturer, the retailer. or wall street. The beautiful thing about America is freedom of choice. I choose not to support this type of "marketing". Your mileage may vary.

I get what you are saying but I don't think you realize just how many companies are doing this exact same thing. I can even remember when a potato chip bag wasn't half air.

I agree that products are worth what people will pay for them. Also in that formula is the competition out there. And quality.

Potato chip bags are half air because the air creates a void (literally an "air bag") that keeps them from getting crushed. Or mitigates that. Maybe that could help with lump preservation....sounds expensive.

HeavyG · July 2016

nolaegghead said:

smokeyw said:

Steve619 said:

Wow, never expected this level of response, actually, I wasn't looking for any response, just expressing my view. I like Royal Oak, I don't like what I view as deceptive packaging. Looks the same but downsized. When ever the quantity is increased it's "10% extra, same price" but not the other way. Good marketing? O.K..... don't care if it's the manufacturer, the retailer. or wall street. The beautiful thing about America is freedom of choice. I choose not to support this type of "marketing". Your mileage may vary.

I get what you are saying but I don't think you realize just how many companies are doing this exact same thing. I can even remember when a potato chip bag wasn't half air.

I agree that products are worth what people will pay for them. Also in that formula is the competition out there. And quality.

Potato chip bags are half air because the air creates a void (literally an "air bag") that keeps them from getting crushed. Or mitigates that. Maybe that could help with lump preservation....sounds expensive.

I've always wondered the opposite - what if lump was vacuum packed would that prevent more chunks from breaking down into dust? If it was vacuum packed the lump is not going to be able to shift/move/abrade itself into dust.

It's either a genius idea or the dumbest idea ever. Only way to decide would be to get an NSF grant and do some studies.

nolaegghead · July 2016

@HeavyG hahaha....yeah, I see more benefit in the vacuum. That method is actually used for dried foods, like delicate basmati rice, beans, etc.

Done with Royal Oak

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