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Bloody veins in whole chicken issue

PowakPowak Posts: 1,221
edited July 2016 in EggHead Forum
Tonight I did my 3rd chicken on the Egg. Let me start off by saying the first two were ok but had the bloody veins near the bottom of the breast. First chicken I did indirect at 350 until internal temps were hit. Second chicken I stuffed with an onion, cooked indirect raised to the felt at 400 until internal temps were hit. Tonight's chicken I spatchcocked, and cooked direct at 400-450 raised up into the dome until thighs 177, breasts 169 and STILL got the bloody veins. What's the deal with this? I've never had bloody veins in my Weber kettle or oven. Would cooking spatchcock chicken closer to the felt and coals nail this? Maybe cooking at a lower temp for a longer time be better? Or maybe cooking the chicken way past usda standard temps? tonight the skin was perfect and the meat juicy. The veins just don't seem right  though.


Comments

  • SGHSGH Posts: 28,107
    My brother, I'm kind of busy and short on time at the moment. But when time allows, I will write volumes on your question if someone else doesn't answer it. 

    Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.

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    The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. 

  • FockerFocker Posts: 8,364
    Yep, they're raising, plumping, and moving chickens so fast, around 6 weeks or so.  Their bones aren't mature, and marrow is what you see, that leaks into the surrounding meat.

    It's not the cooker, and all in your head(fear).
    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • PowakPowak Posts: 1,221
    Focker said:
    Yep, they're raising, plumping, and moving chickens so fast, around 6 weeks or so.  Their bones aren't mature, and marrow is what you see, that leaks into the surrounding meat.

    It's not the cooker, and all in your head(fear).
    So that won't affect the flavor?
  • HeavyGHeavyG Posts: 7,956
    Powak said:
    Focker said:
    Yep, they're raising, plumping, and moving chickens so fast, around 6 weeks or so.  Their bones aren't mature, and marrow is what you see, that leaks into the surrounding meat.

    It's not the cooker, and all in your head(fear).
    So that won't affect the flavor?
    Think of it like a smoke ring - it's just an appearance/aesthetic thing and has no impact on flavor.

    Except you know... we also eat with our eyes and if someone freaks out when seeing something they assume is disagreeable or "wrong" then the brain kicks in and tells them it's probably yucky.

    Look at it as an opportunity to educate your customers around the dining table. :)
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Dik

    Camped out in the (757/948/804)




  • Darby_CrenshawDarby_Crenshaw Posts: 2,657
    edited July 2016
    It. Is. Normal

    new normal, to be sure. About ten to fifteen years. You can avoid it if you buy farm-raised mature birds. But they are very different than the commercial breed. 

    To be honest, i am betting that you're actually suffering from the tendency to over think things now that you have a BGE. it's actually normal. 

    I inspected every thing, every step, researched, asked questions like "how do i cook a burger? Time and temp please!"

    then i realized the frigging thing was just a grill. 

    Or, an oven or smoker, depending on the set up. 

    And all the worry vanished

    the food does not know what brand of cooker it's in. It doesn't even cook much different than on other cookers. just easier to control temps, and more flexible. 

    That chicken is normal and safe and flavor unnaffected. The industry is in a tight spot because people want fat cheap birds. Raising them for only a couple months (instead of six months) costs much less. And they breed them so the things can barely walk. 

    And we expect cheap meat (we have no right to). So, immature bones

    the industry would love a way to fix that. 

    The losses from people getting their money back, when they freak out and see 'blood', are still outweighed by the profits 

    same for cryo stink. Allows stores to sell meat a month or more longer than previously. But once a week someone returns a sulfur smelling pork butt. 

    Still a win for the meat packers

    if you cook it longer to a higher temp, that red will go grey/brown. But you risk dry meat. You probably don't overcook chicken anymore since the preachment on this forum about temps. That could play a part. 

    But it's still safe
    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • blastingblasting Posts: 6,262
    I've read the articles,  and understand it.  That said, a year or so ago I spatched a costco bird.  There was so much marrow throughout the bird that it was inedible (due to aesthetics)
    Phoenix 
  • bigbadbenbigbadben Posts: 397
    I am thinking of trying to find a supplier of real birds ones that are allowed to walk around, eat real food and grow at reasonable rates. Food should taste good. Young factory farmed chicken is just boring. 
  • keepervodeflamekeepervodeflame Posts: 353
    edited July 2016
    Have any of you run in to Deep Pectoral Myopathy or what they call green meat disease. Supposedly caused by much the same thing as we are talking about here with the bloody veins.  Quickly raised overly large breasted birds. DPM turns sections of the chickens breast green. It is actually necrotic flesh. They say it comes from excessive wing flapping in large breasted birds.  Very gross looking. Here is a pic from an organic green label  chicken I cooked from CostCo that was my first and so far only discovery of this.  The bird looked great on the grill but awful when carved. Tossed it, went out to dinner, and took pictures back to CostCo who said "Oh that happens occasionally".  

    http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/3142/deep-pectoral-myopathy-green-muscle-disease-in-broilers/

  • HeavyGHeavyG Posts: 7,956
    You really tossed out the whole bird?

    DPM does not make the meat unsafe to eat. Just means you have to spoon on more sauce so your brain doesn't tell you to go "eeeewww" :)
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Dik

    Camped out in the (757/948/804)




  • ZippylipZippylip Posts: 4,764

    That chicken is normal and safe and flavor unnaffected. The industry is in a tight spot because people want fat cheap birds. Raising them for only a couple months (instead of six months) costs much less. And they breed them so the things can barely walk. 

    And we expect cheap meat (we have no right to). So, immature bones

    and that expectation has led to these mass produced 'chickens' that taste like wallpaper paste, sh!t sucks ass
    happy in the hut
    West Chester Pennsylvania
  • keepervodeflamekeepervodeflame Posts: 353
    edited July 2016
    First time I had run into it or even heard of the condition. Had the same feeling as when I saw bloody veins in the chicken I just cooked to perfect temp. Really gross and nasty looking. Doesn't really matter they say it's safe to eat. My brain just screams WRONG. I didn't even check the other breast I was so disgusted with the whole thing. Now that I know what it is, may look for good meat in the other breast but IMO sauce ani't gonna cover that up.  :o What's the world coming to ?
  • PowakPowak Posts: 1,221
    bigbadben said:
    I am thinking of trying to find a supplier of real birds ones that are allowed to walk around, eat real food and grow at reasonable rates. Food should taste good. Young factory farmed chicken is just boring. 
    Wow I guess I'm going to switch back to going to the local farm/butcher shop. Their chickens were incredible and never came out like these.
  • blastingblasting Posts: 6,262
    HeavyG said:
    You really tossed out the whole bird?

    DPM does not make the meat unsafe to eat. Just means you have to spoon on more sauce so your brain doesn't tell you to go "eeeewww" :)
    @HeavyG

    If that was directed to me, I didn't eat it.  I believe I stripped the meat and gave it to the dog.

    In my brain I know it's safe - this one had just too much of it for my liking - it seemed to go through the whole bird.
    Phoenix 
  • PowakPowak Posts: 1,221
    edited July 2016
     if you cook it longer to a higher temp, that red will go grey/brown. But you risk dry meat. You probably don't overcook chicken anymore since the preachment on this forum about temps. That could play a part. 

    But it's still safe
    That's definitely what I'm doing different on the egg - cooking to temperature. On the weber I'd just throw a bird on a beer can and cook for 2 hours. The meat would come out awesome but more of a 200° internal and sometimes the meat on the legs would shrink right up. That bird I spatcocked on the egg yesterday was mega juicy and tasty.
  • PowakPowak Posts: 1,221
    How would spatchcocked chickens do if I cooked em low and slow at 250°?
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,629
    edited July 2016
    Powak said:
    How would spatchcsocked chickens do if I cooked em low and slow at 250°?
    Fine. However, I've gotta say either I'm lucky or just haven't ran into this dilemma. I like whole young bird or roaster in CI pan indirect at 375℉, spatchcock raised direct 375℉-400℉ or raised indirect.  Again, maybe I've just been drawing the long straws and you the short one's. At 250℉ you'll pick up more smoke and the bird's skin may not crisp quite the same. 
    Point legs toward the hinge and shoot for IT breast 155℉ (allows for carryover) thighs will be around 175℉-185℉. 

    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
  • PowakPowak Posts: 1,221
    Powak said:
    How would spatchcsocked chickens do if I cooked em low and slow at 250°?
    Fine. However, I've gotta say either I'm lucky or just haven't ran into this dilemma. I like whole young bird or roaster in CI pan indirect at 375℉, spatchcock raised direct 375℉-400℉ or raised indirect.  Again, maybe I've just been drawing the long straws and you the short one's. At 250℉ you'll pick up more smoke and the bird's skin may not crisp quite the same. 
    Point legs toward the hinge and shoot for IT breast 155℉ (allows for carryover) thighs will be around 175℉-185℉. 

    Yeah my grill got kinda hot after I pulled the plate setter out before spatching. It was up near 500 for a while so when my breasts got to 165 the thighs were like 138.
  • Carolina QCarolina Q Posts: 14,807
    Interesting thread. I eat chicken often, maybe 4 times a week. Whole birds as well as parts. Cheap grocery store stuff, no butcher shop or local farm. It always tastes and looks great to me. Never green, usually no "blood" either.

    Doing a whole bird tonight. Hope it looks "normal" as my mom will be eating it and she will NOT eat red meat of any kind! Green either. :)

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

  • MeTedMeTed Posts: 800
    If you brine your bird overnight in water and two teaspoons of pink salt (curing salt) it will get rid of that blood spotting.
    Belleville, Michigan

    Just burnin lump in Sumpter
  • gmacgmac Posts: 1,814
    Have any of you run in to Deep Pectoral Myopathy or what they call green meat disease. Supposedly caused by much the same thing as we are talking about here with the bloody veins.  Quickly raised overly large breasted birds. DPM turns sections of the chickens breast green. It is actually necrotic flesh. They say it comes from excessive wing flapping in large breasted birds.  Very gross looking. Here is a pic from an organic green label  chicken I cooked from CostCo that was my first and so far only discovery of this.  The bird looked great on the grill but awful when carved. Tossed it, went out to dinner, and took pictures back to CostCo who said "Oh that happens occasionally".  

    http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/3142/deep-pectoral-myopathy-green-muscle-disease-in-broilers/

    My buddy, who is crazy cheap and works for a feed mill put together a ration that blew the birds up to insane sizes and everyone of them had that. I googled it and it called it "Oregon disease" or something similar. Not knowing at the time what it was I breasted them and discarded the filet which was the green part. Since then he has raised them slower and smaller. I think it happens when you get factory birds beyond the "manufacturers recommended weight limit". 
    Mt Elgin Ontario - just a Large.
  • SkiddymarkerSkiddymarker Posts: 8,520
    @gmac - Oregon disease it is, been discussed here before. Same with the issue of marrow bleed. Snatching helps the bleed, but nothing cures Oregon. 
    Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad!
  • XLentEGGXLentEGG Posts: 436
    edited July 2016
    MeTed said:
    If you brine your bird overnight in water and two teaspoons of pink salt (curing salt) it will get rid of that blood spotting.
    Is that 2tsp to one Gal water ? do you think it would help the " bloody " thigh syndrome as well , when cooking in pieces ?
    More meat please !! :-)
  • MeTedMeTed Posts: 800
    The salt is added to 1 gal of water and then add more water if needed to cover the bird. Overnight it will draw the (blood) out of the bones. It works on any chicken pieces. Good luck my friend.
    Belleville, Michigan

    Just burnin lump in Sumpter
  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 38,171
    I read the blood in the marrow, when frozen, develops ice crystals.  This facilitates, along with young, underdeveloped bones from rapidly grown chicken, leakage into the meat. 

    A solution, that I read, can not verify, is to buy fresh (not frozen) chicken.
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  • PowakPowak Posts: 1,221
    I read the blood in the marrow, when frozen, develops ice crystals.  This facilitates, along with young, underdeveloped bones from rapidly grown chicken, leakage into the meat. 

    A solution, that I read, can not verify, is to buy fresh (not frozen) chicken.
    Everytime I've had this problem I've bought a fresh chicken at the grocery store. Many of the chickens are semi frozen in the case when picking mine out which makes me think they're all previously frozen birds.
  • The chicken with the green goo was from  Costco in the green label two pack. One chicken was larger than the other. I cooked the large one probably close to 5 lb. Since then I buy my chickens at the market and get free range organic in the 2.5 to 3.5 lb range. Haven't had any issues with the fresher smaller chickens. knock on wood. 
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