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Super Dry Brisket - What Did I Do Wrong?

Hi everyone, cooked a super dry choice brisket flat (~6 lbs) yesterday and I'm trying to figure out where it all fell apart.  I'm a total newbie, with only a week cooking on my new Large BGE under my belt so I'm hoping to leverage everyone's expertise.  I put a dry rub on the brisket the night before and started it up at 8 AM the next morning.  I had the egg dialed in at around 200-225 for 8 hours but it wasn't getting past 130 degrees internally and there was really no bark at all on it.  Started to panic a bit around 4 pm because everyone was arriving around 5 pm so I tried to wrap it in foil with some beef broth to accelerate the process, I brought the egg up to around 400 degrees for the next two hours.  It came up to 190 degrees and I had to remove it at that point but for some reason it was bone dry and not at all tender which surprised me, I thought I'd just lose out on the bark and not the tenderness.  I obviously need to plan better next time, but I'm really disappointed and not sure what went wrong.  Should I start the brisket at a higher temp (~275) next time?  When do you typically wrap in foil or is that not necessary to keep it moist?  I realize everyone has their own views on wrapping but I'm curious.  I also only really let the brisket rest for about 20 minutes because I was jammed time-wise, I'm assuming that also contributed to this?  Sorry for the long post, just really curious for everyone's hints here.  Thanks in advance!
LBGE, 2016 Rookie Year; Southern CT

Comments

  • SGH
    SGH Posts: 28,791
    Your question is both compound and complex. However if you look close enough, there is a answer. First, if I may, I would like to ask a question. Was the meat dry and crumbly, or dry and stringy? The answer to this will point us in the right direction. 

    Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.

    Status- Standing by.

    The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. 

  • Since you said it wasn't tender I would guess it wasn't done enough. 190 is in the range however brisket must be cooked until it probes like butter.

    NW IA

    2 LBGE, 1 SBGE, 22.5 WSM, 1 Smokey Joe

  • Sorry @SGH should have included that part.  The brisket was dry and not necessarily stringy but definitely not pull apart tender and it was definitely not "probe tender" like I've seen others comment when cooking their brisket (can't wait when I get that moment!).  I'm surprised that it was still stuck at 130 degrees after being on for 8 hours at 225 - is that normal?
    LBGE, 2016 Rookie Year; Southern CT
  • @Brisket_Fanatic if i kept it in, would that have affected the moistness of it?  I was most disappointed by the dryness of it more than anything, it definitely could have been more tender but I'm scratching my head at how dry it was.  I'm reading on some other discussions that marbling may also affect this, maybe my cut was just way too lean?
    LBGE, 2016 Rookie Year; Southern CT
  • SGH
    SGH Posts: 28,791
    pkegg419 said:
    I'm surprised that it was still stuck at 130 degrees after being on for 8 hours at 225 - is that normal?
    Without being there to actually see all the variables, it's hard to give a exacting answer. However at only 6 pounds, after 8 hours at 225 degrees, I'm suprised to hear that it was only 130 degrees. I have cooked larger briskets that were semi-frozen that rose in temp faster than that. I'm not doubting you, not at all my friend. I'm just curious if you were actually cooking at a much lower temp than you thought due to a off thermometer or controller. Usually the rise into the 130's and even the 140's is pretty expeditious. It's the beyond the 140's where it usually starts slowing down. If we were talking about a 20 pound packer I wouldn't be suprised at all. But the fact that it's a 6 pound flat has me scratching my head. My response based on what I have personally saw is no, it's not normal. 

    Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.

    Status- Standing by.

    The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. 

  • slovelad
    slovelad Posts: 1,742
    Next time, give 1.5 hours per pound. Because the brisket needs to rest before done, you can plan on being done 2 hours early.

    i cook mine at 250. Wrap on butcher paper at the stall
  • johnnyp
    johnnyp Posts: 3,932
    @pkegg419 I'll wait for a brisket expert to advise you, but I'll lend what a little insight into the trials and tribulations of brisket cooking.  

    Brisket can be really rewarding, but is a tough cook to nail.  Tough meat, usually indicates undercooked.  Dry, crumbling meat normally indicates overlooked.  If your meat was tough, 190F seems a little undercooked to me.  mine never seem to get probe tender until closer to 200F, but some apparently get done before that.

    i would suggest you allow for excess time moving forward so that you don't have to panic.  You can't always FTC and keep it warm for a few hours, but rushing never works.
    XL & MM BGE, 36" Blackstone - Newport News, VA
  • @SGH thanks for the help, definitely will look at calibrating the thermometer to make sure - didn't think about that and that may very well have been the issue.  @slovelad definitely didn't give it enough rest time, thanks for the tip - hopefully i can get my act together next time!
    LBGE, 2016 Rookie Year; Southern CT
  • "dry and tough" is underdone.

    you may have had a probe in the thinner part reading 190, dunno.

    but you ARE supposed to be intentionally overcooking this past the point where it is dry, but then the collagen will break down and re-wet the meat and that's what makes it fall apart and become tender

    it's not a roast, where you just want to heat it up without drying it out, because that roast is already tender.  if you cook a brisket to roast temps, and slice it, it'll be tough

    you sacrifice moisture in the overcooking, but get it back in the end with the melted collagen, along with tenderness
    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • @johnnyp totally agree i didn't allot enough time, i think this was a perfect storm of not great temp control, not enough planning on the back end.  brutal but good lesson to learn!
    LBGE, 2016 Rookie Year; Southern CT
  • "dry and tough" is underdone.

    you may have had a probe in the thinner part reading 190, dunno.

    but you ARE supposed to be intentionally overcooking this past the point where it is dry, but then the collagen will break down and re-wet the meat and that's what makes it fall apart and become tender

    it's not a roast, where you just want to heat it up without drying it out, because that roast is already tender.  if you cook a brisket to roast temps, and slice it, it'll be tough

    you sacrifice moisture in the overcooking, but get it back in the end with the melted collagen, along with tenderness
    really helpful @Darby_Crenshaw never knew that about brisket, that's good to know the next time i try this out
    LBGE, 2016 Rookie Year; Southern CT
  • jak7028
    jak7028 Posts: 231
    Others will chime in, but I avoid cooking flats since it is the leaner, drier part of the brisket.  If you can, do a whole packer, the fat in the point will help keep the flat juicier.  I have only tried a few times, but have not made a flat only that I was happy with.

    I am still learning, but typically, the briskets I cook.  The point is actually a little to juicy and fatty for my liking.  The part of the flat in the middle of the brisket (closest to the point) is usually outstanding, then as you move to the small end of the flat, it is tender, but usually a little dry for my liking.  Works out well, since you have three choices of brisket that fits all peoples taste.  

    Cook temp - I shoot for 250 for pretty much all my low and slows whether it is ribs, pork butts, brisket, etc.... and good a very good bark

    Wrapping - I dont wrap anything on the BGE (other than pork ribs to braise) except to accelerate cooking if needed.  Some guys love the pink butcher paper, some use foil, but you will get lots of opinions that all work well. Usually wrap about 4 hours in, but it is when you are happy with your amount of smoke and bark.

    Timing - I shoot to have a brisket or other long cooks, ready 2-4 hours before I need them.  Allows you room for error so you are not rushed and you can FTC the meat until you need it.  Every brisket is different and can take different times and internal temps to be just right.

    Temp - 190 was probably early, a choice brisket probably needed to be closer to 200 degrees to be done.  I would of started probing to check it around 190 though.  

    Most important - if SGH offers you advice, do what he says.




    Victoria, TX - 1 Large BGE and a 36" Blackstone
  • Darby_Crenshaw
    Darby_Crenshaw Posts: 2,657
    edited February 2016
    anything you cook until it "falls apart" is undergoing the same thing.

    pot roast, ribs, pulled pork, etc.

    you can also cook anything to this point, even something like tenderloin.  but the thing is, tenderloin has very little fat and very little collagen (it's not a hard working muscle).  and so when it falls apart, it will be stringy just like pulled pork, but it won't have any nice moisture from the gelatin and fat.

    i knew a restaurant that would make "pulled pork" from tenderloin in a crock pot with BBQ sauce.  it still falls apart, but all the flavor was from the sauce.

    tenderloin is already tender though, so we don't cook it to death, don't need to.

    but a hard working hog's ass or shoulder, well, needs to be broken down.  or ribs, which work all the time
    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • bhedges1987
    bhedges1987 Posts: 3,201
    I typically never advise anyone to cook their first brisket for a party of people. Lol they always turn out bad... You'll get it though. Flats never turn out super moist though. 

    Kansas City, Missouri
    Large Egg
    Mini Egg

    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" - Gandalf


  • I typically never advise anyone to cook their first brisket for a party of people. Lol they always turn out bad... You'll get it though. Flats never turn out super moist though. 
    "Flats never turn out super moist".. Unless you do them "Travis style" ;)
    Greensboro North Carolina
    When in doubt Accelerate....
  • pkegg419 said:
    @Brisket_Fanatic if i kept it in, would that have affected the moistness of it?  I was most disappointed by the dryness of it more than anything, it definitely could have been more tender but I'm scratching my head at how dry it was.  I'm reading on some other discussions that marbling may also affect this, maybe my cut was just way too lean?
    Like above, dry and tough is undercooked. The window of doneness in a flat is small but yes the quality and marbling have a great impact.  Spending a little more on a higher grade of meat is worth it in the end. 

    NW IA

    2 LBGE, 1 SBGE, 22.5 WSM, 1 Smokey Joe

  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,168
    edited February 2016
    The topic has been well-covered.  And as above, flats are more challenging than a packer.  Window of "probes like buttah" is more narrow as well.  Google search "brisket, egghead forum" and you will have plenty to digest.
    And here are a few links to look over when you can:
    http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/texas_brisket.html 
    http://www.bubbatim.com/Bubba_s_Brisket.php http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/1996/03/brisket.html
    You can overload on brisket info- 

    Good luck and always find time to rest the meteorite. 

    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • we do flats here (small crowd), and they aren't as great as full packers.  they can still be really good, but yeah, as @Brisket_Fanatic says, the 'window' is very narrow.  i usually watch them like a hawk


    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,168
    One other thing with a flat or the flat on packer cook; most times due to the uneven thickness of flats you will get the "probes like buttah" feel going in the thickest part but then decide to check other areas.  They may not yet have gotten loose.  When you are there (buttah feeling) with the great majority then "declare victory" and pull.  The stubborn area may come around during a rest phase or it may never cooperate.  FWIW-
    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • ^yep

    ...and expect that you will have drier thinner spots too. nature of the best. 
    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • pasoegg
    pasoegg Posts: 447
    add some of the drier meat to your baked beans....will make a puppy pull a freight train....adds great flavor and texture....puts the smoke flavor you want into the canned beans to make you look like an iron chef....

    "it is never too early to drink, but it may be too early to be seen drinking"

    Winston-Salem, NC

  • thanks everyone.  slightly off topic but does FTC work for most cuts of meat or are there some that i shouldn't do it with - this will help me in future cooks with time management and working backward to figure out when to start it
    LBGE, 2016 Rookie Year; Southern CT
  • Chubbs
    Chubbs Posts: 6,929
    pkegg419 said:
    Sorry @SGH should have included that part.  The brisket was dry and not necessarily stringy but definitely not pull apart tender and it was definitely not "probe tender" like I've seen others comment when cooking their brisket (can't wait when I get that moment!).  I'm surprised that it was still stuck at 130 degrees after being on for 8 hours at 225 - is that normal?
    FWIW my brisket for Super Bowl was 14lbs and was put in egg at 34degrees IT. It was at 145 in 3 hours. Just saying. 
    Columbia, SC --- LBGE 2011 -- MINI BGE 2013
  • jak7028
    jak7028 Posts: 231
    pkegg419 said:
    thanks everyone.  slightly off topic but does FTC work for most cuts of meat or are there some that i shouldn't do it with - this will help me in future cooks with time management and working backward to figure out when to start it
    FTC is debated if it helps the cook or is just good to use to store meat until serving time or to transport it.   Personally, I only use it when food is ready early, I don't think it makes a difference as long as the meat gets to rest some. The important thing - do NOT slice or pull the meat until you are serving it.  

    1) It can be used with brisket, pork butts, ribs, etc...pretty much any of the low and slow cooks where the cooking time will vary.  Items you grill direct, will need to rest for ten minutes or so, but no need to FTC to "make them better"

    2) Be careful using FTC on brisket.  A perfectly cooked brisket put straight into FTC could hold enough heat and keep on cooking and end up being over cooked.  Let it cool down a little before FTC.  It will stay warm for several hours.  Pork Butts, I just put straight into FTC since they are a lot more forgiving.  

    Brisket in general can be frustrating to learn how to cook.  It is an expensive piece of meat that is very difficult to learn how to cook and can be different each time.  Just when you think you have it down, you make one that is not up to standards.  Worst case, cut it up and make sandwiches or chili and you still have a great meal.


    Victoria, TX - 1 Large BGE and a 36" Blackstone
  • jak7028
    jak7028 Posts: 231
    Chubbs said:
    pkegg419 said:
    Sorry @SGH should have included that part.  The brisket was dry and not necessarily stringy but definitely not pull apart tender and it was definitely not "probe tender" like I've seen others comment when cooking their brisket (can't wait when I get that moment!).  I'm surprised that it was still stuck at 130 degrees after being on for 8 hours at 225 - is that normal?
    FWIW my brisket for Super Bowl was 14lbs and was put in egg at 34degrees IT. It was at 145 in 3 hours. Just saying. 
    This is more common from my experiences.  Usually you will get to the stall range (about 160F) fairly quick and think it is cooking to quick.  Then the cooking slows down considerably.

    Have you checked calibration of all thermometers being used?
    Victoria, TX - 1 Large BGE and a 36" Blackstone
  • jak7028 said:
    This is more common from my experiences.  Usually you will get to the stall range (about 160F) fairly quick and think it is cooking to quick.  Then the cooking slows down considerably.

    Have you checked calibration of all thermometers being used?
    @jak7028 i had an oven thermometer in the brisket from the beginning to try and minimize open/closing and the dome thermometer was reading 200/225 throughout - i just read other discussions (probably would have helped to have done this before the cook) about the difference in dome temp and grid temp, maybe that was the issue?  i used a thermopop towards the end to make sure i wasn't losing my mind and the oven thermometer wasn't totally off and they read within 1/2 degrees of each other.  i'm thinking i may need to check on the dome thermometer again (i calibrated it with boiling water when i first got the egg), i don't have a separate thermometer down on the grid.  i'm thinking about trying to get my confidence up with some easier cuts of meat (ribs/pork butts) before i get knocked down again on brisket!
    LBGE, 2016 Rookie Year; Southern CT
  • most temps quoted here are dome temps.  it's understood that the grid temp is different, it's just the dome is traditionally a point of reference.

    pick one and go with it.  but if you chose to follow grid temps when you cook, realize that if a recipe you are following says "350 dome", it doesn't mean you should force the grid temp to be 350, it means if the dome is reading 350 but the grid is at 325 (for example), then stick with 325 grid.

    in the end, it doesn't make much difference
    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • SmyrnaGA
    SmyrnaGA Posts: 438
    Did you cut against the grain or with it?  One "trick" is to cut the brisket ultra thin against the grain so it's more chewable...

    Large BGE, Small BGE, KJ Jr, and a Cracked Vision Kub.

    in Smyrna GA.