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Cen-Tex ! Sous Vide Chicken Rocks !!!!

13

Comments

  • SteveWPBFLSteveWPBFL Posts: 1,325
    billybon - I am in WPB and am all ears and taking notes vs. SV! Interesting concept!

    Cen-Tex - I'm thinking low and slow for a number of hours to get a smoke ring and some bark on say a butt and then into the SV for the uniform controlled temp trick.
  • billybonbillybon Posts: 213
    billybon - I am in WPB and am all ears and taking notes vs. SV! Interesting concept!

    Cen-Tex - I'm thinking low and slow for a number of hours to get a smoke ring and some bark on say a butt and then into the SV for the uniform controlled temp trick.
    Now you are thinking! I just pulled a brisket flat out of the SV cooker. The process started on Friday with a packer cut. I separated the point from the flat and trimmed the fat from both pieces. Both pieces were seasoned and placed in refrig. On Saturday the flat was cold smoked for 6 hours while the fat was being rendered separately in a pan on the stove. The smoked flat was then bagged for SV cooking along with a good amount of the rendered fat. I pulled it after 72 hours and fast chilled for use on Friday. It will be seared before serving. Starting on Thursday, the point will be smoked in traditional manner to produce burnt ends. I also have 16 pounds of short ribs SV cooking for the same Friday event. (No smoke on the ribs)
  • NewportlocalNewportlocal Posts: 474
    Reverse the basic sequence. What about searing or Egging or smoking or grilling or browning, etc. to add flavor first until you reach say 130F or so IT at say a half inch deep and then finish off in the SV to a uniform IT of 142F ?



    Sous vide steak 101 here
    http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/03/how-to-sous-vide-steak.html

  • SteveWPBFLSteveWPBFL Posts: 1,325
    Dang, billybon, that's rocket science!

  • Have you ever did a reverse sear on the egg after sving a steak?



    Every time. Here are some 2" ribeyes fresh out of the SV. as you can see, they are med. rare throughout.

    Next pic is after the sear. Next pic you can see, still med rare tip to tail. Perfectly cooked throughout.
    Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

    Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

    Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos
    Wow that looks awsome. How long are they in the SV machine before searing? How do the steaks compare to the tradional methods?



    They are ready in about an hour but they can stay in all day. They just sit there at whatever temp you decide until you are ready to finish them. I go about 130. You cannot overcook them because the water bath is constant.

    I like them better than traditional method steaks for a few reasons

    1) they are always perfectly cooked throughout. Even if the meat is tapered, like a chicken breast or a tri tip. The thin part is exactly the same as the thickest part. You simply cannot screw it up.

    2) as you can see in my finished pic above, they are perfect from edge to edge. There is no gray ring that has overcooked to get the center to the right temp. Every single bite is perfect and there is no guessing. to get these 2" ribeyes med rare in the center with any traditional method, there would be a significant gray ring of overcooked steak around the outside. I don't have that anymore. Perfect throughout.

    I can also say, that you lose no egg flavor by finishing on the egg. I seared these on the lump for 30-45 seconds a side and they were very smokey

    You can literally have steak like this 1 minute after you get home from work. Put it in the SV in the morning, take it out when you get home and pan sear it. If you feel like grilled flavor, fire up the egg. Simple as that.
    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • EggdamEggdam Posts: 223
    Thanks CT you got my wallet trying to get out of my pocket now! Lol. It's on the list.
  • Thanks CT you got my wallet trying to get out of my pocket now! Lol. It's on the list.


    If you like seafood, it's even better. I'll never make chicken breast or seafood without it again.
    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • Reverse the basic sequence. What about searing or Egging or smoking or grilling or browning, etc. to add flavor first until you reach say 130F or so IT at say a half inch deep and then finish off in the SV to a uniform IT of 142F ?



    Sous vide steak 101 here
    http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/03/how-to-sous-vide-steak.html

    Great article Newport! Anyone who wants to know the essence of SV steak, give this a read. Informative but in simple terms.


    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    doesn't the 'vacuum' part of the equation have more to do with simply minimizing the aerobic bacteria potential?  you are pasteurizing it of course, which is the idea, but additionally the vacuum inhibits some of the more common bacteria that you want to minimize too. kinda like suspenders for the 'belt' of the water bath temp.

    i don't think vacuum marinating has ever been shown to do anything. any 'interstitial spaces' (and let's hope none of our own tissue has any ) would be squeezed shut once you released it anyway.

    but the vacuum in sous vide, i believe, serves a real purpose. but in addition to the time/temp of the water bath.
    no?
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • BrownieBrownie Posts: 1,023
    Would you guys PLEASE STOP! My wallet may not be able to hold out much longer. Screw the Adjustable Rig. I need Sous Vide!
  • doesn't the 'vacuum' part of the equation have more to do with simply minimizing the aerobic bacteria potential?  you are pasteurizing it of course, which is the idea, but additionally the vacuum inhibits some of the more common bacteria that you want to minimize too. kinda like suspenders for the 'belt' of the water bath temp.

    i don't think vacuum marinating has ever been shown to do anything. any 'interstitial spaces' (and let's hope none of our own tissue has any ) would be squeezed shut once you released it anyway.

    but the vacuum in sous vide, i believe, serves a real purpose. but in addition to the time/temp of the water bath.
    no?



    Well.... The best answer I can give you (and i fully admit this is not my strong suit) is yes and no. The words sous vide means under vacuum (not cooked in water). You can technically sous vide in a microwave but the traditional way is in the water bath. As far as bad guys go: Commercial sous vide goes anaerobic so you need to worry about the very nasty stuff (botchulism) if it's not handled properly after the cook (chilled in an ice bath to force it through the danger zone). Most home machines leave atmospheric levels of oxygen so you have the usual suspects to worry about if you cook below 130 for over 4 hrs. It's my understanding that the main purpose of the vac bag, especially in home SV is to allow 100% contact to the water while holding all the flavor in.
    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • NewportlocalNewportlocal Posts: 474
    Reverse the basic sequence. What about searing or Egging or smoking or grilling or browning, etc. to add flavor first until you reach say 130F or so IT at say a half inch deep and then finish off in the SV to a uniform IT of 142F ?



    Sous vide steak 101 here
    http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/03/how-to-sous-vide-steak.html

    Great article Newport! Anyone who wants to know the essence of SV steak, give this a read. Informative but in simple terms.




    thanks!
    Cent-Tex looking for your real world experience do you like ribs and brisket better with sous vide and a finish maillard sear on the egg. Just wondering then I would just finish it up on my mini. I think your drunken brisket was old style low and slow on the egg. Just wondering your perspective on preference with different standard proteins. Thanks in advance.
  • I have never done either. I love to do low and slow BBQ the old school way so I can't ever see giving that up. I could see doing a small flat or something just to try it. A brisket would be a 4-5 day cook in a SV but I would give it a rip just for kicks.
    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • NewportlocalNewportlocal Posts: 474
    I have never done either. I love to do low and slow BBQ the old school way so I can't ever see giving that up. I could see doing a small flat or something just to try it. A brisket would be a 4-5 day cook in a SV but I would give it a rip just for kicks.
    Thanks for the response.
  • SteveWPBFLSteveWPBFL Posts: 1,325
    The only question left is size. What is the max volume of the sizes that you guys own? What's the comparison between the demi or whatever it is or the largie if you're looking to cook what we like to cook on say a large BGE?
  • Village IdiotVillage Idiot Posts: 6,958
    The only question left is size. What is the max volume of the sizes that you guys own? What's the comparison between the demi or whatever it is or the largie if you're looking to cook what we like to cook on say a large BGE?
    The inside dimensions of my Supreme (large) is 10" x 12" x 6", which is not very large.  If you are cooking multiple pieces, like chicken breasts, you don't want them touching, so you need a little space between them.
    You are not going to come anywhere close to being able to cook the amount of food you can cook on a large BGE.
    __________________________________________

    Dripping Springs, Texas.
    Just west of Austintatious


  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    thanks c-t.  gotta think, too, that if commercial machines are really reaching much high levels of vacuum, then the idea of any marinade getting IN is ridiculous. more likely juices will be sucked out.

    good point about botulism. i was wondering if that was an issue.  no idea if it 'works' as fast as aerobic bactria.

    thanks for the experienced view of things.

    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • trevorsttrevorst Posts: 64
    Do you let the Steaks/Chicken cool after the SV before searing??
  • thanks c-t.  gotta think, too, that if commercial machines are really reaching much high levels of vacuum, then the idea of any marinade getting IN is ridiculous. more likely juices will be sucked out.

    good point about botulism. i was wondering if that was an issue.  no idea if it 'works' as fast as aerobic bactria.

    thanks for the experienced view of things.

    I'm not sure how fast it works either. i do know that NYC recently banned Sous Vide in restaurants for a while due to concerns about it. They relaxed the ban but had to put new HAACP guidelines in to ensure proper handling. You don't have to worry about that with home machines.

    As far as the marinading under vacuum, I know Thomas Keller (French Laundry, Per Se, etc)  wrote a sous vide book and he is all about marinading in the chamber vac. I need to dig a little deeper to see what the deal is with that. I don't fully understand it yet.
    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • Do you let the Steaks/Chicken cool after the SV before searing??
    Hey trevor- I don't normally with steaks but I do almost always with chicken. Only for the fact that we do 6-8 chicken breast every week just to have in the fridge. I usually cook steaks when I'm ready to eat them.It's perfectly fine to do it and it does not affect the quality of the food.

    If you do cool them, it's best to do it in an ice bath to force it through the danger zone. Sous Vide usually cooks right near the danger zone for bacterial growth and conditions inside the bag are perfect for fast growth so we do the ice bath just to be safe.This is an abundance of caution but it's the way I learned so I still do it. I leave everything in the vac bags until ready to eat.

    The best way to warm chilled SV foods are to put them in back the water bath at around 120 degrees for 30 minutes or so then you can finish them any way you like.

    The SV folks say that 120 is the perfect "mouth feel" (yeah, I just said that) as far as eating temp goes and it does seem to work pretty well FWIW.




    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • billybon - I am in WPB and am all ears and taking notes vs. SV! Interesting concept!

    Cen-Tex - I'm thinking low and slow for a number of hours to get a smoke ring and some bark on say a butt and then into the SV for the uniform controlled temp trick.
    You can do that but it will wreck your bark. it's very moist in the bag. Also, at low and slow, a butt would take 4-5 days in a SV. I am not a believer in SV as a replacement for low and slow BBQ but I'm sure there are people who do it. I'm old school when it comes to my BBQ and new school when it comes to everything else.
    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • The only question left is size. What is the max volume of the sizes that you guys own? What's the comparison between the demi or whatever it is or the largie if you're looking to cook what we like to cook on say a large BGE?
    The inside dimensions of my Supreme (large) is 10" x 12" x 6", which is not very large.  If you are cooking multiple pieces, like chicken breasts, you don't want them touching, so you need a little space between them.
    You are not going to come anywhere close to being able to cook the amount of food you can cook on a large BGE.
    I don't know the measurements on mine but I would go larger if you have space for it. I've never need more space yet but I'm sure i will. My guess is that VI's could fit 2 more chicken breasts or steaks at a time than mine. I have done 3 huge bone in ribeyes, 4-5 regular sized steaks,  5 chicken breasts, could do 12-16 short ribs if that gives you and idea.

    Check out www.sousvidesupreme.com for all the measurements and comparisons. Everything you need is right there


    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • MudholeMudhole Posts: 26
    The Sous Vide Magic is another less expensive route, use with crockpot, rice cooker or hot plate w/stockpot. They work just like a Stoker or Guru, a switched 110v outlet controlled by a probe in the water, been using mine for a couple months and love it. I got tired of doing the hot water in the cooler method and bought a controller. $159 shipped
  • NewportlocalNewportlocal Posts: 474
    Vacuum can give rapid pickling or rapid marinating, or infusing fruit like vodka in watermelon,etc,etc.
    I realize people are using food savers,ziplocs,etc.
    Chamber vacuum options low to high
    Vacmaster vp 112 around $600 these are very popular and many that can buy whatever they want love this.
    Gives a good vacuum and at around 50lbs is movable.
    The rest of the models listed are closer to 100lbs.
    Vacmaster vp 210 same dry pump as 112 and around $900
    Vacmaster vp 215 oil based pump lasts longer around same price as 210
    Minipack mvs 31x around $2000 does vacuum percentages and retort pouch capable
    Minipack mvs 35x seen deals for similar price range same chamber size as 31x quicker vacuum with Busch pump. This pump can be replaced or rebuilt people swear by this pump for those that can afford it.

    Sous vide options by cost low to high.
    Beer cooler Sous vide with ziploc
    Homemade PID around $75
    Sous vide magic same thing but don't have to make it yourself it's already made around $150
    Aqua chef is brand new wouldn't get one heater only kicks on after 2.5 degree temp drop
    Sous vide Demi and sous vide supreme people love them and only about .5 degree variance $300-400
    Poly science sous vide professional .1 degree variance can be used with multiple containers and put in drawer when not in use. $800 probably about as good as it gets.
    I am probably buying the polyscience first makes some background humming later a sous vide Demi or supreme to cook two temps at once and they are quiet.

    btw certainly not pontificating just had noticed some people showing interest and hope it helps
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    foodsavers used to vacuum seal are going to be squeezing the thing being sealed, not causing it to expand, as with a canister.

    food in a foodsaver bag is being crushed.  in a structurally sound container, the pressure is reduced, and the food would expand.  even when both are under vacuum


    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • NewportlocalNewportlocal Posts: 474
    foodsavers used to vacuum seal are going to be squeezing the thing being sealed, not causing it to expand, as with a canister.

    food in a foodsaver bag is being crushed.  in a structurally sound container, the pressure is reduced, and the food would expand.  even when both are under vacuum





    I really appreciate your vegetable oil post, and think you are a great guy in general. That being said I believe a vacuum in a bag will pull the marinade into the interstitial spaces in the meat. It will be rapid marinating same as pickling or infusion. I think Thomas Keller uses this method at the French Laundry.Same thing with a vacuum canister which can be connected with a hose or put directly in a vacuum chamber. With a improper vacuum percentage you can deform foods such as fish or scallops, but they would still be infused by the marinade. I am always open to learn if you can find proof contradicting this on egullet or elsewhere i.e. Nathan Myrvold,Thomas Keller,Harold McGee, etc. I would be very open to it.
  • foodsavers used to vacuum seal are going to be squeezing the thing being sealed, not causing it to expand, as with a canister.

    food in a foodsaver bag is being crushed.  in a structurally sound container, the pressure is reduced, and the food would expand.  even when both are under vacuum





    I really appreciate your vegetable oil post, and think you are a great guy in general. That being said I believe a vacuum in a bag will pull the marinade into the interstitial spaces in the meat. It will be rapid marinating same as pickling or infusion. I think Thomas Keller uses this method at the French Laundry.Same thing with a vacuum canister which can be connected with a hose or put directly in a vacuum chamber. With a improper vacuum percentage you can deform foods such as fish or scallops, but they would still be infused by the marinade. I am always open to learn if you can find proof contradicting this on egullet or elsewhere i.e. Nathan Myrvold,Thomas Keller,Harold McGee, etc. I would be very open to it.
    I'll do some digging too. I've read the same stuff as Newport but I'm not super interested in that type of cooking so I kind of blew it off. I know where to find it though. I'll see what I can come up with


    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • foodsavers used to vacuum seal are going to be squeezing the thing being sealed, not causing it to expand, as with a canister.

    food in a foodsaver bag is being crushed.  in a structurally sound container, the pressure is reduced, and the food would expand.  even when both are under vacuum





    I really appreciate your vegetable oil post, and think you are a great guy in general. That being said I believe a vacuum in a bag will pull the marinade into the interstitial spaces in the meat. It will be rapid marinating same as pickling or infusion. I think Thomas Keller uses this method at the French Laundry.Same thing with a vacuum canister which can be connected with a hose or put directly in a vacuum chamber. With a improper vacuum percentage you can deform foods such as fish or scallops, but they would still be infused by the marinade. I am always open to learn if you can find proof contradicting this on egullet or elsewhere i.e. Nathan Myrvold,Thomas Keller,Harold McGee, etc. I would be very open to it.
    I'll do some digging too. I've read the same stuff as Newport but I'm not super interested in that type of cooking so I kind of blew it off. I know where to find it though. I'll see what I can come up with


    Plus, words like interstitial make my head tired :))


    1- LGBE
    1- KBQ C-60 (The Dishwasher)
    I- Blackstone 36" Griddle
    1- Sweet-A$$ Roccbox Pizza Oven
    1-Very Understanding and Forgiving Wife
  • NewportlocalNewportlocal Posts: 474
    foodsavers used to vacuum seal are going to be squeezing the thing being sealed, not causing it to expand, as with a canister.

    food in a foodsaver bag is being crushed.  in a structurally sound container, the pressure is reduced, and the food would expand.  even when both are under vacuum





    I really appreciate your vegetable oil post, and think you are a great guy in general. That being said I believe a vacuum in a bag will pull the marinade into the interstitial spaces in the meat. It will be rapid marinating same as pickling or infusion. I think Thomas Keller uses this method at the French Laundry.Same thing with a vacuum canister which can be connected with a hose or put directly in a vacuum chamber. With a improper vacuum percentage you can deform foods such as fish or scallops, but they would still be infused by the marinade. I am always open to learn if you can find proof contradicting this on egullet or elsewhere i.e. Nathan Myrvold,Thomas Keller,Harold McGee, etc. I would be very open to it.
    I'll do some digging too. I've read the same stuff as Newport but I'm not super interested in that type of cooking so I kind of blew it off. I know where to find it though. I'll see what I can come up with





    Super interested. Yet :D
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    Vac seal a marshmallow in a foodsaver bag, and one in a canister. The bag will crush it, the canister will cause the other to balloon. Both will be under vacuum.

    And both from the power of the same vacuum applied differently

    There's a reason the foodsaver has a juice tray. Because when using the bag, you will draw from the meat

    (Not sure what the oil post has to do with it)
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
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