Adding solar to the house.

Legume

I'm getting a few proposals for solar. I went down this route in '21 but backed off.

The grid-tied bothers me, so I am going to look at battery systems as well.

What do I need to know or ask from anyone that has gone this route recently. I'm not looking at a leased system, looking at purchasing outright.

xfire_ATX

Get the highest wattage monocrystalline panels you can afford.  More watts generated per SF.

You can be Grid connected and have battery, you just need a transfer switch to protect the grid when power is down.  Solar all day and send it back on grid your excess and get paid, battery charge also in day or at night when power is cheaper (if you get charged that way).

When I sold them I like SolarEdge or Enphase inverters so you can see what your system is doing by panel, but I bet most do that now.

How old is your roof?  If its older consider a new roof first so they dont have to take it all off to re-roof in the near future.

caliking

Good point about the roof. 

I looked into this in 2018 (I realize a lot has changed since then). Looked like it would take 12 yrs to break even. I may have been closer to pulling the trigger, if I had an EV to charge. 

wrt to selling back to the grid, down here the utility charges a transmission fee to deliver power from the grid to your house. They charge the transmission fee the other way, too… if you sell power to the grid. 

lkapigian

DIY if possible , I’ll be into mine for around 6k, solar company 70k same thing … they are pretty much plug and play . I’m just doing enough to offset the ac and pool . While I am a licensed contractor, its totally not necessary for a home owner, even in California, to do their own thing, so long as its permitted and inspected 

Legume

Thanks @xfire_ATX

Bid in 2021 spec'd 380W/panel, now it looks like they're specing 420W/panel. I do plan to ask if there are higher wattage panels that I can upgrade to, they had that option last time. They used to sell LG until they got out of the market, I think they sell REC now.

Our roof has some life left, but it's starting to give up its granules more and more when it rains, so we are replacing first for that exact reason.

The proposal in '21 had enphase microconverters for each panel. Other installers (national companies like Sunrun) were bidding single inverters and I liked the redundancy of one per panel where a failure doesn't take the whole system down.

I have a window to get this done before the 30% tax credit goes away, so I'm jumping on it if it isn't crazy.

Legume

lkapigian said:

DIY if possible , I’ll be into mine for around 6k, solar company 70k same thing … they are pretty much plug and play . I’m just doing enough to offset the ac and pool . While I am a licensed contractor, its totally not necessary for a home owner, even in California, to do their own thing, so long as its permitted and inspected 

Agree, but that's not me, not my skills or knowledge. Ours won't be anywhere near that cost, less than half of that before the 30% from the gov.  But you probably run a lot more AC in the valley than I do in the mountains. We also have big trees around us, giving us limited installation real estate. I think the system they spec'd in '21 was just under 10kW for an annual production of just over 11,000 kWh.

DoubleEgger

A 12 year payback period sounds very unappealing. 

caliking

DoubleEgger said:

A 12 year payback period sounds very unappealing. 

It was several years ago, so I may be fuzzy on the details. May have been less than that, but long enough that the numbers weren't looking great. 

alaskanassasin

My power bill is avg 200 a month / 30k = 150 months 12.5 years. I wouldn’t count on the power company cutting checks. I know they do but they don’t like it.

DoubleEgger

I think that the only winners in the solar game are the installers. 

poster

alaskanassasin said:

My power bill is avg 200 a month / 30k = 150 months 12.5 years. I wouldn’t count on the power company cutting checks. I know they do but they don’t like it.

Any idea on our avg kWh for a month? I'm just curious how yours compares with me up over the border.
I keep hearing we pay some of the worst rates here, but I haven't compared it to anyone other than the city I am closest too. I pay about $150.00 for 850 kWh. If I lived in the city near by and was not on the remote low density rates I would pay under $100/month for the same kWh.

lkapigian

poster said:

alaskanassasin said:

My power bill is avg 200 a month / 30k = 150 months 12.5 years. I wouldn’t count on the power company cutting checks. I know they do but they don’t like it.

Any idea on our avg kWh for a month? I'm just curious how yours compares with me up over the border.
I keep hearing we pay some of the worst rates here, but I haven't compared it to anyone other than the city I am closest too. I pay about $150.00 for 850 kWh. If I lived in the city near by and was not on the remote low density rates I would pay under $100/month for the same kWh.

so about .175 Cents per KWH , we pay around .25 low rate in the US around .08 

caliking

DoubleEgger said:

I think that the only winners in the solar game are the installers. 

Probably. The consumer/customer may do well in the long run,  depending on the need (EV, AC, pool equipment + heater, frequent power outages, etc.).

I'm still tempted.

xfire_ATX

caliking said:

DoubleEgger said:

I think that the only winners in the solar game are the installers. 

Probably. The consumer/customer may do well in the long run,  depending on the need (EV, AC, pool equipment + heater, frequent power outages, etc.).

I'm still tempted.

Im tempted but my roof orientation for optimal sun is the smallest roof.  Cant generate enough solar in the summer to provide enough kW that I normally use in winter.  So cost per watt installed is high for me.   You can see here how little roof I have to work with.

Ozzie_Isaac

Few thoughts -

1. Cost here to remove panels for roof work is $350 per panel - most systems are 10+ panels.

2. Make sure you get the tax credit, many companies roll that into your final total and aren’t clear that they pocket it.

3. Ask them for the cash price, many don’t usually offer that without directly asking and insisting. Last company I dealt with had a 30% or 40% markup over cash and they pocketed the tax credit.

4. In AZ it adds maybe $5k to home value if it’s owned.  If it’s leased it makes selling harder because the buyers need to qualify for it.  Also, some leased systems they remove at end of lease unless you re-up.

5. Solar companies and solar contractors go bankrupt and rename more often than restaurants.  Be aware this can get ugly and troublesome in the future.

6. Buybacks for power can change, make sure you understand what you are getting and if it will be grandfathered.

7. I think it’s a great product ruined by the sales practices common in the industry.

fishlessman

poster said:

alaskanassasin said:

My power bill is avg 200 a month / 30k = 150 months 12.5 years. I wouldn’t count on the power company cutting checks. I know they do but they don’t like it.

Any idea on our avg kWh for a month? I'm just curious how yours compares with me up over the border.
I keep hearing we pay some of the worst rates here, but I haven't compared it to anyone other than the city I am closest too. I pay about $150.00 for 850 kWh. If I lived in the city near by and was not on the remote low density rates I would pay under $100/month for the same kWh.

near boston im paying .1519 per kwh for 158 kwh per month = 24 dollars electricity

then they deliver that for

RATE Residential Regular R-1
Customer Charge 10.00
Dist Chg 0.08939 x 158 kWh 14.13
Transition Charge -0.00036 x 158 kWh -0.05
Transmission Charge 0.05798 x 158 kWh 9.16
Energy Efficiency Chg 0.03025 x 158 kWh 4.78
Renewable Energy Chg 0.0005 x 158 kWh 0.08
Net Meter Recovery Chg 0.01724 x 158 kWh 2.72
Distributed Solar Charge 0.00729 x 158 kWh 1.16
Electric Vehicle Charge 0.00038 x 158 kWh 0.06
Service Quality Credit -0.01572133 x 158 kWh -2.48
Total Delivery Services $ 39.56

so $63.56 for last month

Legume

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Few thoughts -

1. Cost here to remove panels for roof work is $350 per panel - most systems are 10+ panels.

2. Make sure you get the tax credit, many companies roll that into your final total and aren’t clear that they pocket it.

3. Ask them for the cash price, many don’t usually offer that without directly asking and insisting. Last company I dealt with had a 30% or 40% markup over cash and they pocketed the tax credit.

4. In AZ it adds maybe $5k to home value if it’s owned.  If it’s leased it makes selling harder because the buyers need to qualify for it.  Also, some leased systems they remove at end of lease unless you re-up.

5. Solar companies and solar contractors go bankrupt and rename more often than restaurants.  Be aware this can get ugly and troublesome in the future.

6. Buybacks for power can change, make sure you understand what you are getting and if it will be grandfathered.

7. I think it’s a great product ruined by the sales practices common in the industry.

Good stuff, I would say most of the companies I spoke with back in ’21 played some or all of these games.  I will be paying cash.  This company is local, has been around for a long time, employee owned and have put 3 solar systems on for neighbors in the past couple of years on my block alone.  They charge high for equipment and very low for labor since the equipment is what the rebate applies to.  The Sunrun guys I dealt with gave me a huge ick.  The Tesla guys were worse.

The go out of business game sounds like pool companies - the worst.

Legume

All in with fees, our electric has been averaging $0.17/kWh. Most of our burn is summer and it’s off peak and mid-peak, not on peak, but that’s largely because we try to not run the AC middle of the day.  Peak heat is 4pm, so it’s usually 5 or so that we kick it on.  With solar, I am sure I’ll run it more in the day.

WoodworkerBED

We have had our 32 panel system now for 6 years.  About 4-5 months/year our electric bill is zero and we are banking credits with our utility.  Now that we have recently purchased a Chevy Equinox EV we are driving around on sunshine.  Couldn't be happier and it is our small contribution to the environment.  Also have a high efficiency electric heat pump, an electric snowblower and an electric lawnmower.

danhoo

rates in Cali with PG&E (  pacific graft and extortion )  have gone sky high. Heat and AC costs make solar a must-have or you'll see $500 to $1,000 / month in July/Aug 

I have a 24 panel system since 2018 without a battery. Looking back I wish I invested a little more and went with a battery and automatic transfer switch to keep the lights on when the power goes out.

Off peak rates are 2x to 3x higher than most of the country. Peak rate is even more.

poster

Wow, ok so I am not way out there as I often hear with electricity costs.
We are $.07 off peak and $.158 on peak. My bill is usually doubled from all the delivery and misc. charges.
It is also taxed after, but the government is currently offering relief on electric bills and removing pretty much what adds up to the tax amount at the end.

Corv

I've had several installation quotes over the years. The cost has always been more than my projected lifetime electric costs without it, even with rebates. But I'm an older person - if you're younger and plan to stay in your home, it might pencil out.

Canugghead

Corv said:

I've had several installation quotes over the years. The cost has always been more than my projected lifetime electric costs without it, even with rebates. But I'm an older person - if you're younger and plan to stay in your home, it might pencil out.

We should have done it when we bought this house new 35 years ago 🤑

alaskanassasin

I forgot to reply to your request @poster! My bill says $0.06189 per kWh. But then there is $104 in “delivery charges” so actual bill was 205.63 / 1,639 I’m calling it $0.1254 per kWh. 

poster

alaskanassasin said:

I forgot to reply to your request @poster! My bill says $0.06189 per kWh. But then there is $104 in “delivery charges” so actual bill was 205.63 / 1,639 I’m calling it $0.1254 per kWh. 

Hey, no problem. Good to get a feel what others are paying. Delivery fees.. gotta love them

dbCooper

fishlessman

.

alaskanassasin said:

I forgot to reply to your request @poster! My bill says $0.06189 per kWh. But then there is $104 in “delivery charges” so actual bill was 205.63 / 1,639 I’m calling it $0.1254 per kWh. 

if i add the delivery charges im at $0.4023 per kwh.  funny how my bill doest work that number out and show it for what it is.....

alaskanassasin

fishlessman said:

.

alaskanassasin said:

I forgot to reply to your request @poster! My bill says $0.06189 per kWh. But then there is $104 in “delivery charges” so actual bill was 205.63 / 1,639 I’m calling it $0.1254 per kWh. 

if i add the delivery charges im at $0.4023 per kwh.  funny how my bill doest work that number out and show it for what it is.....

That’s the only way to look at it in my opinion bill/kwh 

fishlessman

alaskanassasin said:

fishlessman said:

.

alaskanassasin said:

I forgot to reply to your request @poster! My bill says $0.06189 per kWh. But then there is $104 in “delivery charges” so actual bill was 205.63 / 1,639 I’m calling it $0.1254 per kWh. 

if i add the delivery charges im at $0.4023 per kwh.  funny how my bill doest work that number out and show it for what it is.....

That’s the only way to look at it in my opinion bill/kwh 

with what they charge here i read it as running a refrigerator and a lightbulb.....

stlcharcoal

I looked into it briefly 10 yrs ago ..... Was going to be $40k to install, and only cover a max of 50% of my monthly power usage.  With the tax credits , it was still going to take 20-something years to pay back.

I was shocked especially since I have a geothermal heat pump......so my power bill was under $150 a month.  Thought I could do it cheap, but boy was I wrong! 

MaskedMarvel

Buying used seems to be the way to go. Dual panel. Having a friend in the biz help you install… unlicensed electrician buddy..

all the usual stuff….