Jordy's about to talk @ 10 EST

alaskanassasin

RRP said:

alaskanassasin said:

Canugghead said:

We were paying our mortgage when term deposits were earning 18%, I was working for a financial company and paying around 12% IIRC even with the 3.5% employee mortgage discount. Mind you, house prices were not crazy like now.

Your mortgage interest on principal residence is tax deductible, no? So stop whining 

 Yes but the standard deduction is generally higher than most peoples itemized.

ah, crap - this thread will probably get bounced to the trash anyway, but I just want to air one of my pet peeves when people say "your mortgage interest is tax deductible"... Even keeping it very simple math say your marginal tax bracket is 15% then say your interest paid was say $10,000. Then your tax benefit was only $1,500 - but you still netted out at $8,500. 

I agree, same with people who justify buying things for business's. “It’s a write off!”

lousubcap

@Legume extremely well reasoned post above.  

StillH2OEgger

Would anyone on here, even those planning to vote for him, purchase a used car from this man, leave your daughter alone with him, or literally trust him with one cent of your money?

I can't believe anyone would trust him to run for dog catcher, much less president of the United States. How much of the mountain of evidence that shows what a despicable person he is are you willing to ignore?

I'm shocked at the utter lack of empathy for the contractors he bankrupted, and the charities and Trump University folks he defrauded. Forty-some members (more than 90 percent) of his one-time cabinet members do not support him in this election. His third wife wants nothing to do with him, along with most republicans in congress who don't absolutely need him for their reelection efforts. His running mate called him American's Hitler.

What is it about those empty promises and contention that he's above the law appeals to you? How many flaws and faults and felonies are you willing to accept from a candidate for president? Is whatever issue(s) that leads you to Trump or away from the other side really worth all that baggage and the efforts to incorporate any portions of Project 2025? I guess we will all find out in a few months.

Canugghead

Legume said:

RRP said:

alaskanassasin said:

Canugghead said:

We were paying our mortgage when term deposits were earning 18%, I was working for a financial company and paying around 12% IIRC even with the 3.5% employee mortgage discount. Mind you, house prices were not crazy like now.

Your mortgage interest on principal residence is tax deductible, no? So stop whining 

 Yes but the standard deduction is generally higher than most peoples itemized.

ah, crap - this thread will probably get bounced to the trash anyway, but I just want to air one of my pet peeves when people say "your mortgage interest is tax deductible"... Even keeping it very simple math say your marginal tax bracket is 15% then say your interest paid was say $10,000. Then your tax benefit was only $1,500 - but you still netted out at $8,500. 

I think the point he was making is it’s likely not deductable in Canada, but I’m not sure.

Correct, I'll pick $1,500 over $0, can buy a sh*t load of gaskets.

Legume

Canugghead said:

Legume said:

RRP said:

alaskanassasin said:

Canugghead said:

We were paying our mortgage when term deposits were earning 18%, I was working for a financial company and paying around 12% IIRC even with the 3.5% employee mortgage discount. Mind you, house prices were not crazy like now.

Your mortgage interest on principal residence is tax deductible, no? So stop whining 

 Yes but the standard deduction is generally higher than most peoples itemized.

ah, crap - this thread will probably get bounced to the trash anyway, but I just want to air one of my pet peeves when people say "your mortgage interest is tax deductible"... Even keeping it very simple math say your marginal tax bracket is 15% then say your interest paid was say $10,000. Then your tax benefit was only $1,500 - but you still netted out at $8,500. 

I think the point he was making is it’s likely not deductable in Canada, but I’m not sure.

Correct, I'll pick $1,500 over $0, can buy a sh*t load of gaskets.

thank you for confirming, I really didn't want to have to google more.

Legume

I wrote this back in mid-July when someone asked me why I think Trump is dangerous for America, or some version of that. Biden was still the nominee. It's longer than I planned to write but easily shorter than it could've been. Seems relevant now.

I've never seen Trump as a policy guy. I don't think he's ever been.  Trump is a money and power and adulation guy, always has been, look at his history.  Now I'm not saying you have to be a politician to be a policy guy and it's not a criticism, it's just not Trump. Not important except to consider what his motivations might be, if not policy. Love of America can’t be it, he’s not a public service guy nor is he charitable. He’s not a principles guy and flag hugging is just theater. It’s uselessly symbolic as an act. He’s a quid pro quo guy, everything is for sale and it’s the art of the deal 24/7. Therefore, I think it’s worth asking why he ever wanted to be president.

So, Trump pursues the ultimate grift, sold to him hook line and sinker by his new friends who do have policy and power aspirations but lack the profile and charisma to reach for it themselves, so a symbiotic partnership is formed. Trump is a vehicle for the policy aspirations of others and the others agree to provide money, power and adulation. This is the real trump train, climb onboard and I'll take you wherever you want, and I’ll tell you what you owe me later.

They feed trump policy, they define his target base and he does what he does best, he sells people on him, not policy, just some hot button issues and does a damn fine job of it. He's good at pushing all the right buttons. He is the best salesman I’ve ever seen, he’d have to be. He creates a vision of America that is so dark where he is the only thing standing between you and literally anything he can get you to worry about or fear. The story and the strategy has not changed.

So, why do I think he represents more risk to America? Because he stands for nothing but himself.  He’s a criminal who is a great salesman, a very dangerous combination.  I do believe in the saying where there is smoke there is fire, so take 50%, or 75% or 95% of what he’s been accused of and convicted of (go back before he was president and had all of these political “vendettas"), call it fog, smog, steam, anything but smoke and toss it all out. That last 5% smoke that remains, yep, I believe he’s a criminal.  And not a trivial criminal, I don’t buy the arguments about fraud - there were no victims, everyone does it, etc. We’re electing a president and like it or not, the president is a role model, maybe not one that people aspire to, but when a president lowers the bar on ethics, morality, decorum, etc., it serves make it acceptable for everyone to lower the bar and I believe that is very much what has happened since his first term. The hate speech, the divisiveness, the acceptability of targeting people because you don’t like them or they stand in your way.  

The lying.  So much lying that it is widely accepted.  These are all risks to our country.  I find it terribly ironic that so much of the current GOP messaging is to restore this country to how it was in better days and the vehicle for that messaging includes so many lies and exaggerations that are easily debunked - but in the process, the bar for decorum and ethical behavior is continually lowered, causing more dishonesty and negative social behavior - like hate, bigotry, etc.  If feels like a death spiral, we are at the same time, talking about the horrible state of affairs and making reality worse.

I could go on and talk about Russia and the world stage in general - I think the same things apply, he’s in this for himself, so he’s open to whatever - selling secrets, trading US action or inaction for the ability to build a hotel somewhere, etc.  I could go into project 2025, how I believe the GOP is wholly on the wrong track at this point and moving us toward what they say the Dems will do with people’s rights, etc., manipulation of the process of government, etc.  But that’s all out there in the news enough that I won’t here. This is already 10x what I intended so I’ll wrap it up here, but it’s been a good exercise for me to think more about it and articulate it. I think a big difference between the rabid supporters on the right and left right now is on the left, people know Biden is old, has failing moments but is still the best choice of the two. On the right, I continually encounter people that have the ability to just look right past all shortcomings of Trump and say, what? He’s fine? 

Last thought.  I don’t support Biden because I believe he’s still able to do the job or is in his prime or because I blindly believe in his decisions and policies.  I don’t.  It’s lesser of two evils to me, it is many elections.  I take a do no harm approach and when I look at Trump, I see harm in what he has done, what he has said he will do and in his language and how he carries himself. Not to mention, the % of his former cabinet and advisors that have either been convicted of crimes or have absolutely renounced Trump is a huge signal to me – they have all had the best access and front row seat, better than any of us.

alaskanassasin

Seems like a good use of your time. 

JohnInCarolina

@Legume - thoughtful post.

For me, the real question is, despite the many things you cite regarding Trump - his grift, cons, etc. - aspects I think most people can see and are aware of, why are so many American citizens still planning to vote for him?

Our polarization is certainly part of it, but that doesn't explain why he was able to win the GOP primaries in 2024 without really much of any real challenge from any other candidate.  By early 2023, most people had fully seen the bad and the ugly from Trump.  It's hard to get much worse than his behavior on January 6th.  Then there is the fact that he's been convicted of sexual assault plus a large number of other crimes.  None of this seemed to make much of a difference to his supporters, at least not in numbers big enough to make any kind of a difference.  

There is this old piece in Vox I've found myself returning to from time to time.  It is from 2016, and details how social scientists traced a lot of his support back to authoritarianism:

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/23/11099644/trump-support-authoritarianism

We obviously have this bent in our cultural DNA.  Maybe every country does, I'm not sure.  I wonder if it's something we'll ever really properly reckon with.  I'm not optimistic.  

StillH2OEgger

Wonderfully stated, @Legume. I have doubts that anyone will be changing their mind at this point, but I wish more would focus on the points you’ve made before this thread is inevitably sunk into oblivion.

lousubcap

Another very insightful post @Legume.  Too bad it won't have much, if any impact.  

alaskanassasin

lousubcap said:

Another very insightful post @Legume.  Too bad it won't have much, if any impact.  

Those were my sentiments, I hope you @legume didn’t write all that up for the 3 trolls in the ot section of a obscure bbq forum.

JohnInCarolina

alaskanassasin said:

lousubcap said:

Another very insightful post @Legume.  Too bad it won't have much, if any impact.  

Those were my sentiments, I hope you @legume didn’t write all that up for the 3 trolls in the ot section of an obscure bbq forum.

Tom can speak for himself obviously, but I suspect he wrote it for the people here who he’s gotten to know over the years, and others as well, who might read it and appreciate it.

If folks like yourself aren’t capable of doing either or see it as wasted time, then so be it.

alaskanassasin

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

lousubcap said:

Another very insightful post @Legume.  Too bad it won't have much, if any impact.  

Those were my sentiments, I hope you @legume didn’t write all that up for the 3 trolls in the ot section of an obscure bbq forum.

Tom can speak for himself obviously, but I suspect he wrote it for the people here who he’s gotten to know over the years, and others as well, who might read it and appreciate it.

If folks like yourself aren’t capable of doing either or see it as wasted time, then so be it.

I suspect if you read the first sentence you will understand who it was directed towards. 

alaskanassasin

Obviously we couldn’t expect you to understand that arguing with strangers on the internet is a waste of time.

JohnInCarolina

alaskanassasin said:

Obviously we couldn’t expect you to understand that arguing with strangers on the internet is a waste of time.

And yet… here you are.  What’s your excuse?

alaskanassasin

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

Obviously we couldn’t expect you to understand that arguing with strangers on the internet is a waste of time.

And yet… here you are.  What’s your excuse?

Ahh the timeless classic, “I know you are but what am I?”  Let’s just quit before dad pulls the car over.

JohnInCarolina

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

Obviously we couldn’t expect you to understand that arguing with strangers on the internet is a waste of time.

And yet… here you are.  What’s your excuse?

Ahh the timeless classic, “I know you are but what am I?”  

Yeah I don't think it's quite that.  

For a dude that has a hair-trigger on any of my posts he finds offensive, you sure didn't hesitate to try and crap on @Legume's.  

Have a blessed day.  

Legume

I’m back, had to go catch some fish this morning with a friend.



Good use of time, right?

Legume

The long post wasn’t supposed to be that way. As I said above, someone asked and while I thought that was going to be easy to answer, I found it wasn’t because I’m one of those in the boat names “I can’t believe there are more than a dozen folks in the entire US that can stand this guy, let alone vote for him.”  I guess it felt like when your kid asks you why is the sky blue or and you just know it is, but have to give it some thought.

So I guess in the end I wrote it for me - I don’t like writing, but I find it’s the easiest way to organize my thoughts when I need to and since I was asked in a sincere way, I didn’t want to just ignore it and felt it was something I needed to be able to answer more completely than “he’s a bronzer-coated gasbag whose intellect, ethics and selflessness are easily exceeded by his glove size."

TechsasJim

Legume said:

I’m back, had to go catch some fish this morning with a friend.



Good use of time, right?

Good looking cast, fish and waders.   Very good use of time IMO.   My in-laws spend 6mos/yr in Utah doing just that.   

alaskanassasin

That makes sense @Legume. You are certainly in gods country there. 

Legume

I’ve been reading more about how highly partisan electors and election officials in various counties around the country have started to not certify elections and the ‘plan’ is to not certify the presidential election if Trump loses.

I know this has been floating around for a while, but I just read about it happening now in Colorado which has not really been a battleground state, at least not in any recent memory.

I’m curious what people think of this and if people on the forum here have lingering concerns about a fair election in November? 

TechsasJim

Legume said:

I’ve been reading more about how highly partisan electors and election officials in various counties around the country have started to not certify elections and the ‘plan’ is to not certify the presidential election if Trump loses.

I know this has been floating around for a while, but I just read about it happening now in Colorado which has not really been a battleground state, at least not in any recent memory.

I’m curious what people think of this and if people on the forum here have lingering concerns about a fair election in November? 

I choose not to participate in this conversation bc I have absolutely not heard anything along those lines in any media I have read/seen.   

JohnInCarolina

TechsasJim said:

Legume said:

I’ve been reading more about how highly partisan electors and election officials in various counties around the country have started to not certify elections and the ‘plan’ is to not certify the presidential election if Trump loses.

I know this has been floating around for a while, but I just read about it happening now in Colorado which has not really been a battleground state, at least not in any recent memory.

I’m curious what people think of this and if people on the forum here have lingering concerns about a fair election in November? 

I choose not to participate in this conversation bc I have absolutely not heard anything along those lines in any media I have read/seen.   

Interesting choice.

Did you ever find any ammo to back up your claim that Harris was unanimously the worst VP of all time?

TechsasJim

John,

I’ve decided to no longer participate in political discussions on a simple bbq forum.   

Hope you can appreciate that man.   

Legume

https://www.denverpost.com/2024/04/08/colorado-election-denial-county-canvass-boards-election-officials-protests-trump/

Local article about how this has been playing out in Colorado in the years since 2020.  Every state has their own rules and runs their own elections, so this varies state to state.  Georgia has been in the news the most, lately.  It sounds like this is more of an annoyance than real issue in Colorado because there is a process that can override or bypass this when it’s baseless, but the concern is that it’s a tool used to sow distrust in election process, outcome, airing of grievances, etc. And not all states have the same rules or processes.

JohnInCarolina

TechsasJim said:

John,

I’ve decided to no longer participate in political discussions on a simple bbq forum.   

Hope you can appreciate that man.   

It’s a free country brother.

Buckwoody Egger

Legume said:

override or bypass this when it’s baseless

Some thoughts since you requested!

The best plan is to increase the votes for Harris/Walz to a point where errors are a spec of fly crap on the windshield. Like it was in 2020 after all the claims were baseless and Trump lost the popular vote by millions and millions more than when he lost the popular but achieved the electoral. 

Agree that writing is a great process for evolving an opinion and sharpening and glad you shared. Writing drafts and deleting editing etc is great. 

Eventually America will get to a point where Trump’s conspiracies and whining are ignored and passed by like alien invasion tabloid headlines at the grocery cash register. Sooner the better for all parties. Did anyone notice Trump’s flattery about Obama recently?  Quite a leap from someone who founded his political surge on the birther conspiracies.  So the smart people will ignore him and the mean mugging loyalists will get even more enraged (and turn on him) as he changes his tune on anything to chase the closest ring. 

Great fish!

lousubcap

Way to spend quality time that we can not get back @Legume.  (BTW-on average we are on the planet for  around 2.5 billion seconds 🥃.)
On to CHEETO-
Since declaring victory with "every day is now Saturday" in 2016 I have and will be this November 5th a poll worker. 
I find the subversion of the voting process across the precincts, never mind rolled up to be disturbing and quite alarming.  The F'tard doesn't give a da-n about anything other than himself. CHEETO'S plan as has been the case is to sow the seeds of doubt independent of the outcome.  Tip the scales in my favour (nod).  Many acolytes will buy in and away we go.  Losing 60+ court challenges in 2020 is the modus operandi for him.  The few, the proud, the gullible will remain on board.  Individual thought is at a very high premium with his followers.  F'me. 
As Bill Clinton said at the DNC Convention, "Don't count the lies, count the "I's".  That pretty much sums it up.
I loathe CHEETO.  
@JohnInCarolina's link reposted here has a whole lot of weight:
https://www.vox.com/2016/2/23/11099644/trump-support-authoritarianism
Sheep with Agent Orange colouring (nod).  F'me.  

Legume

This is what I'm talking about. Agent orange faking a massive flip flop because...power, not principles & policy.