Oh No !!! Ran Out of Lump

charlieBGE

Four butts, 45 LB, Egg Genius temperature controller set at 250, XL. @12 hours IT was 190. Needed to go another hour or two. Out of lump. Temperature was steady at 250 the whole time. All I had to use was Royal Oak, with mostly small pieces (smaller than a golf ball). Is the small lump the reason I ran out?

WeberWho

You can fill your egg up to the fire ring. You should be able to get 18+ hours when loaded up with lump to the fire ring. 

charlieBGE

It was filled up past the fire ring, almost touching the plate setter. Couldn’t get any more in. Size of the lump is the only thing I could come up with. I’ve done 18 hour cooks with no problem. Don’t remember the lump size though. 

stlcharcoal

There are just as many btu's in small pieces that there are in large pieces by weight.....and the only way to get rid of lump faster, is to burn it faster (which would result in a higher temp.) 

Sounds like you didnt have enough to begin with, or the temp gauge is wrong.   Make sure you got it filled up all the way to the top of the fire ring.

charlieBGE

I have two different devices with two different probes all reading the same. Are you saying lump size won’t effect how long the lump lasts? Only the temperature you’re burning at?

jdMyers

I would have just went right into the oven

charlieBGE

That’s what I did, into the oven. But I shouldn’t have to do that. After all it’s an EGG, I’ve done 18 hour cooks before, at the same temperature. 

lkapigian

45 pounds of cold protein , bringing the egg back to equilibrium is my guess, especially if you had a fan control, that would have been ramped up for quite a while 

kl8ton

Hi charlieBGE

I don't have an XL but 45lbs of protein could possibly have blocked the heat to the temp probe?  Maybe it was running hard trying to get up to temp, burning a lot of lump initially?  How did they turn out?

fishlessman

lkapigian said:

45 pounds of cold protein , bringing the egg back to equilibrium is my guess, especially if you had a fan control, that would have been ramped up for quite a while 

have had this happen with big cooks, theres noway to get an accurate temp reading and the fan just chases false temps.  better to not turn the controller on for the first several hours till things catch up

stlcharcoal

charlieBGE said:

I have two different devices with two different probes all reading the same. Are you saying lump size won’t effect how long the lump lasts? Only the temperature you’re burning at?

The lump size does not affect the burn time.  BTU is by by weight, not size.  It can be anywhere from 10000-13000 BTW/#, but that doesn't matter if it's a giant cantaloupe sized chunk, or a pile of fines the same weight.  If it's carbonized properly, the BTU is the same.

The size can affect the the temp because of the airflow that gets to it, but it doesn't affect the temp it *could* reach or maintain.  Since you are metering the air getting to the lump via a draft door, fan, etc, the the temp is maintained.  If you're lump was "burning faster" you would have seen a subsequent rise in temperature.  Law of conservation of energy.....that BTU has to go somewhere.

rpeters

I have had a similar situation and figured it was because of the chunk size. I use Royal Oak also and when I get down to the bottom of the bag and use the smaller chunks it seems to use them a lot faster.

I understand what you guys are saying about the BTU, but if you have the BGE filled with golf ball sized chunks vs filled with grapefruit sized chunks, it seems like it would burn through the smaller chunks faster.

I'd love to understand more to help with longer cooks.

stlcharcoal

rpeters said:

I have had a similar situation and figured it was because of the chunk size. I use Royal Oak also and when I get down to the bottom of the bag and use the smaller chunks it seems to use them a lot faster.

I understand what you guys are saying about the BTU, but if you have the BGE filled with golf ball sized chunks vs filled with grapefruit sized chunks, it seems like it would burn through the smaller chunks faster.

I'd love to understand more to help with longer cooks.

It does not.  BTU is BTU.  You cannot burn it faster or slower without a temperature change.

Remember though, we're talking WEIGHT not VOLUME.

That being said, but the carbonization has to be equal.  The larger the chunks, the less BTU they *could* have because often times wood fiber is still holding that big chunk together.  And on the contrary, the smaller pieces may have a higher carbonization, and that's what caused them to be more brittle and break apart.  But in that case, with the regard to weight, the smaller pieces will have a HIGHER BTU per pound.

Heavy/dense "charcoal" is not charcoal, it's charred wood.....not charcoal yet unless you can break it apart by hand.

charlieBGE

Thanks for all the helpful replies. As far as small chunks vs. large chunks in regards to burn time at a particular temperature, I’m on the fence about that one. As someone mentioned, the placement of the probe going to the controller could be a factor. It was on the grate in front of the two butts on the bottom rack. The Egg could have been running hotter than the probe said. I noticed the dome temperature was 50 deg f higher than the grate. This is not unusual but at some point in the cook they usually come together. I think I’ll try controlling off the dome temperature next time. The size of the lump effecting air flow is interesting. Not sure is small or large lump is better for the air flow. Anyway the bbq turned out great. Now for a bbq sandwich. 

fishlessman

charlieBGE said:

Thanks for all the helpful replies. As far as small chunks vs. large chunks in regards to burn time at a particular temperature, I’m on the fence about that one. As someone mentioned, the placement of the probe going to the controller could be a factor. It was on the grate in front of the two butts on the bottom rack. The Egg could have been running hotter than the probe said. I noticed the dome temperature was 50 deg f higher than the grate. This is not unusual but at some point in the cook they usually come together. I think I’ll try controlling off the dome temperature next time. The size of the lump effecting air flow is interesting. Not sure is small or large lump is better for the air flow. Anyway the bbq turned out great. Now for a bbq sandwich. 

i had a roaring fire, maybe a 1000 degrees with 34 pounds of butts and brisket on and i could not get a temp reading above 170f before shutting the vents down. i was doing it manually, it burned half the lump before i figured out what was going on.

Hansm

I get the best heat with FOGO Super Premium Gold, massive chunks

charlieBGE

Can you break those big Fogo chunks in half with your hands? The comment from sticharcoal above says you should be able to. 

stlcharcoal

charlieBGE said:

Thanks for all the helpful replies. As far as small chunks vs. large chunks in regards to burn time at a particular temperature, I’m on the fence about that one. As someone mentioned, the placement of the probe going to the controller could be a factor. It was on the grate in front of the two butts on the bottom rack. The Egg could have been running hotter than the probe said. I noticed the dome temperature was 50 deg f higher than the grate. This is not unusual but at some point in the cook they usually come together. I think I’ll try controlling off the dome temperature next time. The size of the lump effecting air flow is interesting. Not sure is small or large lump is better for the air flow. Anyway the bbq turned out great. Now for a bbq sandwich. 

With a fan controller, you really don't need to worry about that.....the fan is going to push the air into the firebox.

Large lump is going to be better for airflow, which could be a good thing or a bad thing.  It's definitely harder to get started.  If you're maintaining 225F in a Large, the area of lump actually burning probably isn't any bigger than your fist.  With the "fire triangle", you need air, fuel, and a kindling temp.  You have the first two, but you have to maintain 670F'ish in the charcoal to keep it going.  If you have a huge piece of charred wood or charcoal, it's acting as a huge heat sink and with suck that heat away.  And if you have big chunks, the spot that's burning might not have a "fire bridge" to get that 670F over to the other chunk as it starts to burn out.

Best thing to have is a good mix of sizes so you have airflow, fire bridges, etc.  

Here's an article I wrote that has a a lot more science of charcoal.  https://www.pizza-porta.com/blog/2019/8/18/guest-blog-charcoal-rockwood-charcoal

stlcharcoal

charlieBGE said:

Can you break those big Fogo chunks in half with your hands? The comment from sticharcoal above says you should be able to. 

If it doesn't break apart by hand, nor shatters when dropped, it's not charcoal yet.

If it makes a dull "thud" rather than a metallic "tink", it's not charcoal yet.

If has any brown rather than black with a shiny appearance, it's not charcoal yet.

If it smokes more than a few minutes on startup, produces blue flames, or leaves a bunch of bright flaky white ash, it wasn't charcoal yet.

If the physical size of a 20# bag is considerably smaller than another brand's 20# bag, it's probably not charcoal yet.

stlcharcoal

charlieBGE said:

 As someone mentioned, the placement of the probe going to the controller could be a factor. It was on the grate in front of the two butts on the bottom rack. The Egg could have been running hotter than the probe said. I noticed the dome temperature was 50 deg f higher than the grate.

Forgot to mention on this.....

That's kind of odd the grate temp was lower than the dome temp, but not a big deal.  Usually the other way around, especially with that much meat.  A big honkin' piece of meat is going to use a ton of heat, so the dome temp will be considerably less than the grate, especially in the first few hours.

You want the pit probe at grate level at least a few inches away from any meat and the edge of the dome; and not above the meat, a water pan, or drip pan.  Place it above a plate setter leg to keep it from direct heat from the fire. 

It could have been the fire just migrated to one side of the firebox.  It will move around, especially on an XL where it's so shallow.  I usually turn the grate 90-180 a few times on an XL during a long smoke.

In the meantime, just test the dome temp gauge and pit probe in some boiling water.  Don't get too hung up on it, because either one is only measuring a few square inches.  It's going fluctuate.  If you want to be surprised, clip that probe in your oven in a few different spots and watch the temp swings.  

Pook

There is a guy on here who makes different sized screens to sift his lump. That might help.  

StillH2OEgger

charlieBGE said:

Can you break those big Fogo chunks in half with your hands? The comment from sticharcoal above says you should be able to. 

Just to nitpick here a little here, but what @stlcharcoal said was you should be able as long as it's fully carbonized. I have used Fogo and would not be surprised if some of those big chunks you tend to get with that brand are not fully carbonized.

Also, In case if it's not clear by his forum name or maybe some newcomers here are unfamiliar, but there's probably not a better charcoal resource on here than stlcharcoal.

Regardless, glad this issue didn't derail your cook. I'm sure it was great.

RyanStl

All I can say, there are so many variables involved a one time 12 hr cook instead of a 18 hr cook can be chalked up to that.  Too many things could be going on.  Kind of like the cook time from one cook to the next before the meat is perfect.