Playing with a Pizza sauce

jdMyers

Ohio weather finally allowed some play time.  Had to fire up the wood fired pizza oven.  Tweaking a sauce 

alaskanassasin

looks killer man, what is your dough recipe?

RyanStl

Info on the sauce?

Moleman

and lastly, the pepperoni?  Thanks

Elijah

Pepperoni in Italy will get you red peppers 

loco_engr

nice looking 'za

Mark_B_Good

Very good, you hit the mark well.
You make your own sauce?

jdMyers

Thanks guys.  The pepperoni is old world pep from ezzo.  The sauce.  For me pretty simple.  I use Alta cucina  whole plum tomatoes.  See photo.

I hand mash plum tomatoes with a potato masher.  I remove the peels.  I add red pepper flakes, sugar, scissor cut fresh basil, oregano, sea salt, minced garlic, red onion, pecorino romano cheese hand grated and a drizzle of olive oil

Olive oil, garlic, and fine diced onions into sauce pan on very low heat.  Braise.

Add lightly mashed plum tomatoes, simmer.  Then add sugar, not much.  It becomes very sweat as it cooks.  Tbl spoon.  Add basil cuts and 1/3 amount of oregano as you think.   Add red pepper flakes sea salt and pepper.  Let simmer then add  pecorino romano cheese  hand shredded.  Allow to thicken.  Low heat as to not change color of tomatoes. Stir often.

Let cool.  I screen strain out all the juice into a bowl.  I use a rubber spatula to press the most thru the screen or strainer as i can.  I then use a serving spoon with holes to lift out a majority of the tomatoe chunks.  Mostly pepper flakes, spices and tomato tid bits left.

I add the removed tomatoes to the strained sauce in the bowl.  I hand mash the bowl again and mix.  I emulsify the stuff in the strainer to a puree.  

If the puree is overly red pepper flaked to taste I can fix it here. Same with If it needs salt etc. The puree is my "add to the sauce" sweet or heat ingredient at this point.

I add small amount of puree to the sauce bowl until I get the flavor I like.  Especially if I went a little to heavy on the pepper flakes.  Add some more fresh pecorino romano cheese  to the sauce bowl which will help thicken. I add some more fresh cut basil cuts.  Funnel sauce into squeeze bottles.  Refrigerate till use.  What ever puree left gets pitched.  Usually a tablespoon or two.

For me.  pecorino romano cheese adds a unique taste.  Can be a sweet or spicy sauce depending on your taste and the puree add.  My favorite anyway.

Hope it helps someone.

Ref the dough. Straight regular salt 00 flour, water, yeast, and honey.

Photo.  Mine are not peeled.

mehsrea

JD you inspired me. My first try at egg pizza. 0 flour (not 00), yeast, kosher salt. Sauce is based with Jersey Fresh crushed tomatoes (check ‘em out on Amazon). Sicilian mom’s Pomo recipe except sugar for pizza sauce. Pecorino Romano with mozz and some shredded Johnsonville (only thing processed but let’s face it Jville is the best). Crust had great char. Next time I’ll go for thinner all around but overall I’m satisfied.

RRP

I realize recipes vary, but I have never used honey before in a pizza dough recipe but sugar on a regular basis. Mind giving me some idea of any measurements per this or that quantity? 

Also do you care to share your personal advantage(s) and noticeable differences using honey in a pizza dough recipe versus cane sugar?

jdMyers

I've never used cane syrup.  I've used honey as a sweetner as a trial and liked it.  Didn't take much.  Tablespoon. Slightly different sweetner.  Makes the crust a little more enjoyable 

Ozzie_Isaac

Looks awesome!  Reminds me of the guy who came on telling how awesome his dough was, but wouldn't share any details, not even with his kids.

@jdMyers not saying you aren't sharing, you clearly are, but these threads always make me chuckle because that guy.

jdMyers

Laughing.  I sadly don't have a "dough" recipe yet.  It's been hit and miss trial and error.  I don't understand the whole hydration thing yet.  My first batch was the ninja food blender dough recipe.  My battles have been the grill and or oven consistency.  I bought a steel wood holder for the pizza oven which elevates the wood for air flow.  Sounds great. Looks nice.  But in reality I found wood burning on the pizza oven floor heats the floor.  This is what cooks the crust.  Elevated wood takes 3x as long to heat the floor half as much but 4x the wood burned.  In the egg.  Higher in the dome produces a better top cook but the stone isn't as hot so not as good of a bottom cook.   Weirdly fun to learn.

Langner91

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Looks awesome!  Reminds me of the guy who came on telling how awesome his dough was, but wouldn't share any details, not even with his kids.

@jdMyers not saying you aren't sharing, you clearly are, but these threads always make me chuckle because that guy.

Great thread!  I usually won't ask for a recipe on here because that happened when I was lurking and learning.  I was afraid there was some unwritten rule against asking for recipes!

I wish I had the patience required to get to the point most of you are with pizza.  I just can't seem to nail it on the egg.
 

JohnInCarolina

Langner91 said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Looks awesome!  Reminds me of the guy who came on telling how awesome his dough was, but wouldn't share any details, not even with his kids.

@jdMyers not saying you aren't sharing, you clearly are, but these threads always make me chuckle because that guy.

Great thread!  I usually won't ask for a recipe on here because that happened when I was lurking and learning.  I was afraid there was some unwritten rule against asking for recipes!

I wish I had the patience required to get to the point most of you are with pizza.  I just can't seem to nail it on the egg.
 

Have you picked up the Elements of Pizza book by Ken Forkish?  That single book is what made a big difference for me in terms of the quality of the pizzas I made.   That and purchasing a dedicated pizza oven.

That being said you definitely can make very good pizza on the BGE.  Once you get a solid dough recipe, the main thing is making sure the stone is at the right temp before launch.  I had pretty good results on the BGE cooking pizzas at 500-550F.  They take around 8 minutes at that temp, and you just have to check them after a couple and rotate them 180 degrees as the back is where more of the heat concentrates.  

What I do appreciate about pies on the BGE is that you do get some smoke into the crust.  You don’t really get that in the Neapolitan style pies cooked in the WFOs at 900F because they cook so fast.  

jdMyers

"You don’t really get that in the Neapolitan style pies cooked in the WFOs at 900F because they cook so fast"

I disagree.  Having a dedicated oven.  I've leaned alot.  900 degrees is great sounding but not practical.  You either burn the top or under cook the bottom.  My son was a pappa John's manager.  He schooled me a lot on the tools.  Dough dockers or rollers with spikes.  Pointed tips vs square tips.  Bottom line if your dough isn't thin crust with light to little toppings like Neapolitan pizza 900 is too hot.  I found 700 to 750 to be prime.  Still less than 2 minutes on average maybe 3.  But it's slide it in.  Wait.  Rotate.  Rotate again.  Rotate again.  Lift into the dome.  Remove and inspect.  Fancy woods like cherry etc.  Pie isn't in long enuff to matter.

On the egg.  I've learned.  No eggsetter, I have stobe closer to the flames In height.  Warm pizza stone up with egg.  Egg has to be 500 or 550.  Stone has to have been warmed at least 30 min.  Keep dough thinner than thick.  Minimum topping thickness on pizza itself for better cook.  No matter what rotate 1/4 turn constantly after it starts to rise during the cook.

Ozzie_Isaac

Thank you for the details.  What wood do you use and where do you source it from?..I have a woodfired oven ready to be installed, but haven't found a good wood supply yet.

jdMyers

Where are you?   So alot of self learned tips.  If I may share my experiences to help you?  What oven did you get?.

#1 ABSOLUTELY Do NOT use any sap woods.  Pine, etc.  As the wood heats the sap runs.  Makes burnt spots on the bottom floor.  Doesn't come off easy.  Creates a burn smell in the crust.

#2.  Do not use fire starters that are sap.  I use big green egg fire starters and a jjgerorge.com torch head screws onto small green propane torches.  One can nearly all summer.  Use it to light the egg as well.

#3.  Depending on the oven you bought.  If it's cement floor with fire bricks onto that you have to lay into place.  Inspect the cement floor for major cracks before putting bricks in.  If it has issues figure it out first.  If they are minor like mine was.  Doesn't matter.  Put the fire bricks in and go.

#4.  Build mini small low temp fires at first.  Small 200 degree in the front.  Let it cool.  Small mini on the left let it cool.  Back right etc.  Then next day a 400 degree mini fire and cool etc.  Dries everything out and preps it for high heat..  you will thank me later.

jdMyers

Ref wood.  I use mostly local hard woods.  Nothing fancy.  I have probably ash, cherry mix.  Food cooks so fast doesn't matter.  Like smoking a Cuban cigar but using a flame thrower to keep it lit.

I did however go to harbor freight.  Got a mini 5 ton log splitter that is electric.  I took my split wood and split each piece into 4ths again so they are 8ths if you will.  Debarked it and stacked it.  I didn't go for fancy food prepped wood as when I go camping I don't use it.  But for clean up I get rid of the bark.  Removes most all the bugs that way. 

I split it smaller.  So as I'm adding wood or fuel I can add a little at a time to Control the heat better.  Giant log added may take you from 700 to 900 immediately then you have to wait for it to cool some.  I also got a harbor freight inferred temp gun $20 to check the floor temperature prior to cook.  Floor needs to be 500 and up for good crust cook.

I build fires in the center the. Push them to the left side. Adding wood to the left.  Flame roars over the top to the right. I cook on the right.

jdMyers

jdMyers

Gi metals from Chicago has great tools.  I went to home depot for a tool rack holder works great.  If you are getting a decent size oven get the longer tools.  The 8 inch pizze turner peel is perfect for rotating and removing.  The $19 wooden peels work fine for loading into the oven.  Long handle scrapper brush really not needed as oven will be cold when cleaning.  Brush and dust pan work fine.  Something to move the fire over definitely needed If larger oven.  

jdMyers

Hope this helps somehow ref holder

JohnInCarolina

jdMyers said:

"You don’t really get that in the Neapolitan style pies cooked in the WFOs at 900F because they cook so fast"

I disagree.  Having a dedicated oven.  I've leaned alot.  900 degrees is great sounding but not practical.  You either burn the top or under cook the bottom.  My son was a pappa John's manager.  He schooled me a lot on the tools.  Dough dockers or rollers with spikes.  Pointed tips vs square tips.  Bottom line if your dough isn't thin crust with light to little toppings like Neapolitan pizza 900 is too hot.  I found 700 to 750 to be prime.  Still less than 2 minutes on average maybe 3.  But it's slide it in.  Wait.  Rotate.  Rotate again.  Rotate again.  Lift into the dome.  Remove and inspect.  Fancy woods like cherry etc.  Pie isn't in long enuff to matter.

On the egg.  I've learned.  No eggsetter, I have stobe closer to the flames In height.  Warm pizza stone up with egg.  Egg has to be 500 or 550.  Stone has to have been warmed at least 30 min.  Keep dough thinner than thick.  Minimum topping thickness on pizza itself for better cook.  No matter what rotate 1/4 turn constantly after it starts to rise during the cook.

I am not sure what you’re disagreeing with.  

jdMyers

I was simply stating that Cooking at 900 degrees and above isnt pratical amd Generally not the case. Sorry if it seemed confusing

JohnInCarolina

jdMyers said:

I was simply stating that Cooking at 900 degrees and above isnt pratical amd Generally not the case. Sorry if it seemed confusing

OK.  It was just weird to me because the part you quoted was basically only making the point that at 900F, the pizza doesn't really have enough time to pick up much of any smoke in the crust.  I didn't think that was really all that debatable. 

In terms of 900F being impractical, that may just be for the style of pizza you prefer to make.  Nothing wrong with that.   But I cook at that temp all the time, as do several others here, whether they're using WFOs or portable pizza ovens.  We do it because we are actually cooking Neapolitan-style pizzas.  

I do also cook different style pizzas like NY style or Detroit style, or even thick crust, and there I would agree with you - 900F doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  Really the temperature needs to make sense for both the style of pizza and the hydration level of the dough.  

jdMyers

That's the learning part I am at in my life.  I'm not familiar with the hydration levels.  So I'm attempting to learn it as best I can.  Please share.

JohnInCarolina

jdMyers said:

That's the learning part I am at in my life.  I'm not familiar with the hydration levels.  So I'm attempting to learn it as best I can.  Please share.

Neapolitan-style pies have hydration levels between like 55 and 62, give or take.  The dough tends to be quite dry.  Usually they are made using only flour, water, salt and yeast (no sugar at all, because it will burn at the high temps).  Important to use the proper flour as well.  This is typically 00.  

Higher hydration doughs are designed to stay in an oven longer at a lower temp, where the water can continue to evaporate out and the pizza won't burn.  NY style pies, for example, typically have hydration levels around 65%, and are cooked anywhere from like 550 to 700.  Lots of variation here on doughs and flours, but it's typically not 00.  

I have a couple of different pizza books.  I definitely recommend getting one.  I think Forkish's Elements of Pizza book is one of the better ones out there for learning, even though it's not for a WFO.  I also like the Pizza Bible book by Tony Gemignani - he covers pretty much all of the styles.  

jdMyers

Now it makes sense.  I still believe NY pizza flavor in the crust is simply new York water.  Thanks ref the books. 

Ozzie_Isaac

@jdMyers thank you for all of the information!!  I am in Southern AZ and have access to pecan and mesquite (lots and lots and lots of mesquite).  I picked up a Forno Venetzia Pronto.
 200.

alaskanassasin

Current dough recipe if your like me?

Ozzie_Isaac said:

@jdMyers thank you for all of the information!!  I am in Southern AZ and have access to pecan and mesquite (lots and lots and lots of mesquite).  I picked up a Forno Venetzia Pronto.
 200.

I assume that is a Forno Venetzia Pronto 200. not a for $200

JohnInCarolina

alaskanassasin said:

Current dough recipe if your like me?

Here's a pretty standard NY style dough recipe:

https://www.seriouseats.com/basic-new-york-style-pizza-dough