Brisket Slather: Beef consume, oil, mustard, Worcestershire?

jjdbike

Hello folks,
Hope you re all well. Here in the NE we are enjoying a last shot of winter just before spring. Local hardware was selling grass seed next to rock salt & both were flying out the door.
OCD'ing out here as I prepare for my brisket smoke this coming Saturday. Was watching a Harry Soo video and he applied beef consume after his rub & injection. I know that w/ competition BBQ you only get one bite & it has to explode w/ flavor. I HAVE HEARD -  that mustard doesn't add noticeable flavor, oil can contribute to color, Worcestershire can add umami. I wonder if slathering w/ beef consume, as Harry Soo says, can deepen beef flavor? My only concern would be if using a rubber w/ a lot of slat, the beef consume also has a lot of salt and it might be too much.
He admits to be a BBQ nerd, so am I. I love his instructional and comparing vids. Full disclosure, I'm not a fan of his rubs. 
Beef consume slather before rub, thoughts? 
JD

CornfedMA

I’m sure it adds something just not sure how much. Is he injecting it with the consommé as well? If I have a good quality brisket on hand, I always go with either a simple S&P rub or lately, I’ve been using Hardcore Carnivore Black. I don’t use a slather with either one. I find that the meat has enough moisture to hold the rub well enough. 

Money_Hillbilly

@jjdbike I use Harry’s methods frequently especially his brisket methods.  I always inject and use a slather.  I compete in a local competition and I have won 7 out of 9 first places over the last 3 years.  

Tspud1

try it and see what you think

jjdbike

CornfedMA said:

I’m sure it adds something just not sure how much. Is he injecting it with the consommé as well? If I have a good quality brisket on hand, I always go with either a simple S&P rub or lately, I’ve been using Hardcore Carnivore Black. I don’t use a slather with either one. I find that the meat has enough moisture to hold the rub well enough. 

Thanks CornfedMA,
Yes, I was thinking same thing. Was thinking if slather & or spritz was going to add anything, why not add beefiness? 
I think Harry uses a commercial injection mix. Probably promoting his own.
I'm injecting Myron Mixon's recipe of 1/2 Meyer's AuJus and 1/2 Meyer's Beef base.
JD

jjdbike

Money_Hillbilly said:

@jjdbike I use Harry’s methods frequently especially his brisket methods.  I always inject and use a slather.  I compete in a local competition and I have won 7 out of 9 first places over the last 3 years.  

Thanks Money_Hillbilly,
I've got a question that show's my ignorance. What's the difference between what you do for competition and what you do for entertaining and personal consumption?
JD

Money_Hillbilly

@jjdbike Nothing, the judges at this competition are a local chef, food and beverage mgr and a golf pro.  This past year, Erica Blair winner of food network’s BBQ Brawl was a celebrity judge.  She said the brisket we entered was the best she has tasted on the circuit this year.  My head was pretty big after that.  Make a slurry with that Myers product and Worcestershire sauce before applying your rub.  I use a combination of 5 different rubs to form a nice bark.  I always inject and apply the rubs the day before and place in the fridge.  My game really changed when I went to a big gravity fed unit for brisket sorry but it just comes out perfect compared to my prior egg experiences.  Look up Harry’s Texas brisket video.

lousubcap

@Moneyhillbilly Congrats on that sustained performance.  Definitely got a great bark and ring with that gravity fed rig.  
Edit:  @jjdbike - You cooking a SRF gold this coming weekend as I recall.  I don't know how often you have had that quality of brisket but if this is your first run with that cut I would not inject to get a benchmark for the flavour and texture that cut provides on its own.  But your cook and the prior is just an opinion.  We all know what those are worth!!!

jjdbike

Money_Hillbilly said:

@jjdbike Nothing, the judges at this competition are a local chef, food and beverage mgr and a golf pro.  This past year, Erica Blair winner of food network’s BBQ Brawl was a celebrity judge.  She said the brisket we entered was the best she has tasted on the circuit this year.  My head was pretty big after that.  Make a slurry with that Myers product and Worcestershire sauce before applying your rub.  I use a combination of 5 different rubs to form a nice bark.  I always inject and apply the rubs the day before and place in the fridge.  My game really changed when I went to a big gravity fed unit for brisket sorry but it just comes out perfect compared to my prior egg experiences.  Look up Harry’s Texas brisket video.

Thanks!
Wow man, that's a mean looking brisket, rock-star bark & ring!
I know I need a bigger cooker that's more of a dedicated smoker, that also provides better air flow.
I have been looking at a reverse flow water cooker (Back woods G2 Chubby), and also considering a gravity fed, though I don't know which to look at.
JD

Money_Hillbilly

@jjdbike I am partial to the gravity unit since it operates very similar to the egg.  I can load it with lump and run it with the flame boss for 12 hours.  I can control the smoke profile by adding chunks into the chute with the lump.  Masterbilt has a pretty nice consumer grade gravity fed unit otherwise they get pretty pricey for a custom built unit. I am running a Rockin W Smokers unit out of Texas. 

lkapigian

Gravity Feeds Rock

Mark_B_Good

I have tried mustard and mayonnaise as a binder.
I have found that the mustard adds to the saltiness of the brisket, which seems to absorb salt very well ... and it can become too salty.

So I personally have switched over to mayonnaise ... more of a neutral tasting binding agent.

Hoster05

@Money_Hillbilly what do you inject with?   I’ve probably got 100 brisket cooks under my belt but have never injected them.  I do always enjoy trying something new though.  

Money_Hillbilly

@Hoster05 I use an au jus product.  Sorry I can’t disclose details beyond that since I use for competition.  

Money_Hillbilly

@Hoster05 I also use the au jus product for the slather to keep the same flavor profile.  I think these steps add a considerable advantage to the moisture level and flavor profile.  I also smoke on a rack over an disposable foil pan that catches the au jus.  Game changer!!

jjdbike

Hoster05 said:

@Money_Hillbilly what do you inject with?   I’ve probably got 100 brisket cooks under my belt but have never injected them.  I do always enjoy trying something new though.  

I use Myron Mixon’s recipe of Meyer’s products from Soupbase.com. 1/2 Meyer’s beef base, 1/2 Meyer’s AuJus.
Just a little extra beefy moisture.
JD

SonVolt

If you're cooking for a large crowd or competing with a lot of other strong flavors then rubbing with beef bouillon and/or injecting with beef broth can jack up the umami and make your flavors pop. But it also can make it taste, for a lack of a better word, like "fast food brisket". Something to be enjoyed in small quantities.  A good comparison would be a pot roast made with Lipton's onion soup mix vs a proper French braise.  They're 2 different end-results and which one is best depends on the mouths you're feeding. 

Personally I think trying to emulate what Harry Soo's is doing at home is a bit ridiculous. Like you said, he's jumping through hoops to get a judge's attention.  Paraphrasing here, but Mad Scientist BBQ said his brisket "Was good for a bite or two, but not something he'd want to sit down and have a plate of. That it would actually make him sick". 

I wouldn't worry about adding too much salt with binders... It's hard to over salt a brisket. 

jjdbike

Money_Hillbilly said:

@Hoster05 I also use the au jus product for the slather to keep the same flavor profile.  I think these steps add a considerable advantage to the moisture level and flavor profile.  I also smoke on a rack over an disposable foil pan that catches the au jus.  Game changer!!

Hey Money,
Thanks for that. For my 1st time, I’m not going to use a water pan. Instead in going to use a pan to  collect AuJus.
For slather, I’ll use combo of Knorr
Beef Concentrate. It’s primarily beef products, and much less salt than others I’ve seen.
I have a question about collecting AuJus.
Do you use it, e.g., add it back when you wrap and or slice? I’d be afraid it might be too smoky.
Also, it’s recommended that liquid collection pans need to be elevated above deflector. How much space is recommended? That space between deflector, pan & grill grate is very limited.
I’d love to hear from you all.
JD

Hoster05

jjdbike said:

Money_Hillbilly said:

@Hoster05 I also use the au jus product for the slather to keep the same flavor profile.  I think these steps add a considerable advantage to the moisture level and flavor profile.  I also smoke on a rack over an disposable foil pan that catches the au jus.  Game changer!!

Hey Money,
Thanks for that. For my 1st time, I’m not going to use a water pan. Instead in going to use a pan to  collect AuJus.
For slather, I’ll use combo of Knorr
Beef Concentrate. It’s primarily beef products, and much less salt than others I’ve seen.
I have a question about collecting AuJus.
Do you use it, e.g., add it back when you wrap and or slice? I’d be afraid it might be too smoky.
Also, it’s recommended that liquid collection pans need to be elevated above deflector. How much space is recommended? That space between deflector, pan & grill grate is very limited.
I’d love to hear from you all.
JD

some people use metal bar stock, some use quarters or washers but yes elevation is key otherwise that liquid ends up evaporating and you get beef fat burning with a smoke that you dont want the brisket taking in.  

Langner91

My favorite spacer is to buy some 1/2" copper T's from the plumbing section of home depot.  They won't roll off, and they space the drip pan up perfectly.  I keep some copper T's, some copper pipe coupler fittings, and a few elbows around for that purpose.

Money_Hillbilly

@jjdbike @sonvolt Normally I would agree on over the top tastes for comp vs backyard.  After years of experimentation I have found the perfect blend of products that amp up the flavor without coming off like pot roast.  Harry’s technique of starting out at a low temp, coupled with frequent misting helps develop a wonderful bark and smoke profile.  I do not use his rubs but my own combination.  Since I cook in a large gravity fed unit I have the ability to smoke on a rack over a full size foil pan.  My pit builder teaches customers to cook over pans to keep the smoker clean so I evolved to using this method.  Hard to do in an egg with a full packer brisket.

lkapigian

agree with @Money_Hillbilly always cook over pans in my gravity, not so much in my offset..........on a note,most people you are cooking for in the "backyard" don't eat BBQ often, so not matter most cooks are the "best they ever had" as long as you dont choke them with oversmoke or undercook/burn the product ,it is always good...........SPG for the win on most palate's

Mark_B_Good

Hoster05 said:

@Money_Hillbilly what do you inject with?   I’ve probably got 100 brisket cooks under my belt but have never injected them.  I do always enjoy trying something new though.  

Beef broth ... about half a cup of it for a full brisket.  I let that sink in for about 24h or more.

Langner91

Mark_B_Good said:

Hoster05 said:

@Money_Hillbilly what do you inject with?   I’ve probably got 100 brisket cooks under my belt but have never injected them.  I do always enjoy trying something new though.  

Beef broth ... about half a cup of it for a full brisket.  I let that sink in for about 24h or more.

I usually go with the "low sodium" variety.  It is the ONLY thing I buy that is low-sodium, but I used regular beef broth once and thought my brisket was too salty. It might have been my Dalmatian rub, but I haven't had the issue since switching to low sodium for my injection.

Money_Hillbilly

@jjdbike I always inject, rub and sit in fridge overnight if possible.  I boil the injection first, double strain and chill before injection.  I have never done a SRF Gold but I have smoked a number of SRF black label and Imperial Wagyu sourced from a local distributor.  I always inject but you may not want to inject a Gold.  Your call. FYI I have never used the commercial types of injections typically used at comps.  As @sunvolt says they are great for a bite or 2 but not for backyard consumption.  Good luck, don’t overthink it.

jjdbike

Money_Hillbilly said:

@jjdbike I always inject, rub and sit in fridge overnight if possible.  I boil the injection first, double strain and chill before injection.  I have never done a SRF Gold but I have smoked a number of SRF black label and Imperial Wagyu sourced from a local distributor.  I always inject but you may not want to inject a Gold.  Your call. FYI I have never used the commercial types of injections typically used at comps.  As @sunvolt says they are great for a bite or 2 but not for backyard consumption.  Good luck, don’t overthink it.

Thanks Money!

I have often considered rubbing night before. I’ve heard so many people recommend against it. I’ve heard it kind of cures it and gives a jerky kind of flavor. Also, Myron Mixon points out that salt draws moisture out. Some of it gets reabsorbed, but not all. He points out how much liquid is at the bottom of pan after overnighting w/ rub. I suppose that’s not been your experience?

I suspected what you wrote about the commercial compilation injection mixes. The ingredients look crazy and unhealthy. 

Best regards,
JD

WeberWho

+1 with the gravity feed smoker.

WeberWho

@Moneyhillbilly You place chucks in your chute with the lump?

Money_Hillbilly

@WeberWho Yes I place chunks throughout the lump.  I still put some in the firebox but always in the chute.

jjdbike

You guys have some serious hardware!!!!
Do you find much of a temperature difference from top to bottom of cooker? Do you rotate your food throughout the cook?
JD

SonVolt

jjdbike said:

Money_Hillbilly said:

@jjdbike I always inject, rub and sit in fridge overnight if possible.  I boil the injection first, double strain and chill before injection.  I have never done a SRF Gold but I have smoked a number of SRF black label and Imperial Wagyu sourced from a local distributor.  I always inject but you may not want to inject a Gold.  Your call. FYI I have never used the commercial types of injections typically used at comps.  As @sunvolt says they are great for a bite or 2 but not for backyard consumption.  Good luck, don’t overthink it.

Thanks Money!

I have often considered rubbing night before. I’ve heard so many people recommend against it. I’ve heard it kind of cures it and gives a jerky kind of flavor. Also, Myron Mixon points out that salt draws moisture out. Some of it gets reabsorbed, but not all. He points out how much liquid is at the bottom of pan after overnighting w/ rub. I suppose that’s not been your experience?

I suspected what you wrote about the commercial compilation injection mixes. The ingredients look crazy and unhealthy. 

Best regards,
JD

Myron is wrong. Dry-brining can help with tenderization and moisture retention as it cooks, but some feel it's not necessary b/c the 10+ hour cook is long enough that you're essentially dry-brining during the cook.  Personally I still dry-brine because I like my salt. 

I've only experienced "cured / jerky" textures with steaks, and only for those that were salted too long (multiple days) and only for cuts with tighter grain, like a New York Strip.  If you're seasoning the night before, you won't have to worry about that with larger cuts like pork butt and beef brisket.