Bayless, a new market, and Tortilla Failure #3

Botch

I'm a big fan of Mexican chef Rick Bayless, he has been doing a lot of videos during this pandemic and is an excellent teacher; recently he's been concentrating on specific Mexican ingredients, and the most recent one was Epazote, which he's praised a lot in the past.  He did a dish with dry black beans, dumped directly into a pressure cooker, some stems of epazote, and garlic/onion.  Cooked under High for an entire hour, then cooled naturally (no direct pressure release), and when he stirred them up for the camera, the epazote was gone/dissolved.  That's it, I need to try this.  
 
Ogden is about 1/4 Hispanic, and most grocery stores have a mexican section.  However, I've never found fresh epazote, and the dried chilies are usually very stale and in small, expensive packages.  Teh Googlez showed me a hispanic market less than a mile from me, buried in a residential area.  Found the place, and oh what a treat!  Found fresh epazote immediately, and blood oranges which I hadn't seen in UT otherwise; I took my time walking thru the whole store.  Found 1-lb bags of dried Guajillo chiles, only $3.77!  Then I saw the meat dept, easily 30 different selections, the biggest I've seen here since Snyder's Butcher closed in Ogden.  Got a 1-lb piece of Queso Fresco for... under $3!?!?  (I hope it freezes well).  In the prepackaged cheese section I finally found Oaxacian cheese, which Mr. Bayless also uses a lot, got a pound of that.  They also had a selection of cheep, cast-iron tortilla presses and huge molcajetés (which I sadly don't have room for).  Walked out with two bags of groceries for under $20.  I knew what I wanted to cook, a combo of Bayless' recipes; when I got home I cut the bag of guajillos open, and they were so aromatic, and dry but soft, yes!  
 
Last night I toasted a dozen guajillos, stemmed and seeded, in cast iron and soaked in hot water.  Meanwhile, smoked a 3-lb chunk of pork in the Egg with post oak, didn't try to fully cook it just get some smoke and char on it; threw it in the crockpot. Then grilled a dozen tomatillos and 6 garlic cloves on the egg (my last onion downstairs was liquified in the center, so no onion), added to the blender with the soaked guajillos, and the results poured over the roast in the crockpot, set to Low at about 6 pm.  The kitchen smelled great when I went to bed.  Whole house smelled great this morning, and I shredded the pork:
 


 ...and stirred back into the crockpot, making sure everything was moistened with the liquid. 
 
Sliced up some taco fixings, and tried to make tortillas from Masa Harina again.  I re-reviewed the top six or so corn tortilla videos on EweTube, and followed everything exactly: kneaded until PlayDoh consistency, for ten full minutes, let rest 45 minutes, slow-heated my CI frypan to 450˚for 20 minutes, oiled, the tortillas pressed out perfectly, transferred to the pan perfectly (no folds/wrinkles!), heat first side 45 seconds (I used my watch), second side 1 minute, flipped again and pressed down, and finally they puffed up, but not as much as in all the videos.  Got all six successfully cooked and into a warmer, and let them steam/cool down for about 1.5 hours.  They were perfectly flexible.  
 
Finally made tacos:
 

 
Cabbage, queso fresco, cherry tomatoes, and that delicious pork, with a side of epizote black beans.  The tacos sucked!!  A freshly-mixed-and-cooked corn tortilla should be so much better than those from the supermarket; mine aren't.  Not even close.  They SUCK!!  Just nasty-tasting, like cardboard.  I much prefer the old commercial ones I get at my generic gringo grocer.  I'm so frustrated, I don't know what I'm doing wrong.  
I'm putting the rest of the pork in the freezer, and eating big macs or sushi for the next few days.  dammit.  

caliking

Dude... such a glorious tale, until your disappointment with the tortillas. They look spot on.

Were the tortillas too dry? Too tough/chewy? Could it be that you kneaded them too much? I don't think there's much gluten in masa, but I wonder if less kneading would get you to a softer tortilla. 

If it were me, I'd swallow my pride, buy the tortillas you like,  and chow down like a fiend. Then, work out the kinks in the tortillas at a later date. 

That pork looks, and sounds, absolutely killer. 

Legume

I don’t usually rest the dough or knead it nearly that much, just get it mixed.  I press the tortillas and they go right into the pan.  I cook them longer, probably not as hot, but I don’t check the temp.  Med maybe on the gas stove?  I cook until I start to get some crisp or char and then into a warmer for a few minutes while I plate up.  They soften a bit in under 5 minutes.

How old is the masa?  I never finish a bag, I just dump what’s left and buy a new one after a few months. 

alaskanassasin

I will second @Legume on this one. Make sure you use fresh masa, and fresh crisco if that’s the fat you are using. Both can go stale and smell like the containers they are stored in.  I made tamales with stale masa and they tasted like cardboard 

buzd504

Your latin market probably has quality lard.  I would add some of that to your tortilla dough.  30 minutes of rest should be sufficient.

Botch

Thanks for the ideas, guys.  If masa goes bad after only a couple months, this whole effort isn't worth it, I'll just get ready-made tortillas.
The latin market did have freshly-ground masa dough, but the bags were big, most of it would go to waste.  

Legume

In all honesty, I buy tortillas 90% of the time.  I also haven’t used fat in corn tortillas, just water and a little salt.  I may have to try this next time.

@Botch see if you can find masa at a place with bulk bins, then you can buy what you need when you need it instead of tossing 80% of a 5 lb bag.

Ozzie_Isaac

Cook longer, knead less, and use lard.

With all that said, I buy from local tortillas factories.  So easy and so good.  Go to your local Carneceria and see what they have on hand.  They usually have a couple of mom&pop brands.

Also, that entire meal looked dynamite.

Botch

Failure #4.
 
I took your suggestions plus a few more videos, and made the following changes:
1.  Added fat, peanut oil as I had no lard (ATK's suggestion also)
2.  Added 1 Tblspn AP flour per cup of Masa
3.  Used hot tap water
4.  Only let them rest 5 minutes or so (just time enough to heat the CI)
5.  Made them a bit thicker (6/cup of masa instead of 8)
6.  Hotter pan (500˚vs 450˚)
7.  Cooked them longer, to get brown spotting (which I didn't have yesterday)
 
First three mods really changed the dough; it came together much quicker and "felt" better, no sticking nor crumbling.   But, none of them puffed up.  At all.  5 and 6 gave me one very hopeful sign: they smelled better, like cooked corn, and I wasn't getting that yesterday either.  

They were edible, but they did taste a bit stale, and I guess I'll have to restock my Masa as @Legume and @alaskanassasin mentioned above.  Come to think of it, when I was doing pizzas all the time, that forum's members all recommended keeping corn meal in the frig, as it goes rancid fairly quickly (I need a bigger frig).  
 
I know I strayed from the Scientific Method by changing too many variables at once.  Tomorrow I'll go back to letting the dough rest at least an hour (I know that really makes a difference in my pasta, in fact pasta dough I let rest overnight in the frig).  I'll also try to add just a bit more water, and try working with it slightly tacky.  
 
Its frustrating that, in the EweTube videos, all do them slightly differently (oil/no oil, room temp vs hot water, 1 oz balls vs 2 oz balls, rest vs no rest, etc) yet they ALL get that cool puffing after the second flip.  

Legume

Sounds like you’re on the right road - fwiw, the puffing is somewhat annoying to me, have to tamp them down so I don’t end up with a fragile tortilla.

Ozzie_Isaac

Legume said:

Sounds like you’re on the right road - fwiw, the puffing is somewhat annoying to me, have to tamp them down so I don’t end up with a fragile tortilla.

I find corn doesn't puff as much as flour tortillas.  Also, @Botch why go thicker?  I usually aim for thinner.

Legume

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Legume said:

Sounds like you’re on the right road - fwiw, the puffing is somewhat annoying to me, have to tamp them down so I don’t end up with a fragile tortilla.

I find corn doesn't puff as much as flour tortillas.  Also, @Botch why go thicker?  I usually aim for thinner.

Doesn’t happen to me often, I think it’s temp related - hotter puffs more with the rapid creation of steam.

loco_engr

Very interesting post when I have google stuff I haven't heard before (or prob forgot) 
I envy your energy and ability to have a great source close by.

Ozzie_Isaac

loco_engr said:

Very interesting post when I have google stuff I haven't heard before (or prob forgot) 
I envy your energy and ability to have a great source close by.

The hardest part is finding an abuela and properly seasoned presses and hot plates.  It takes generations and thousands upon thousands of tortillas to properly season everything.

smak

When I cook tortillas I do not generally get them to puff unless I do this…. After putting them on the griddle, flip them after 10 seconds. Then cook as normal, flip after 45 seconds and then go another minutes. On the second flip they usually puff up.  Not sure the exact chemistry but I think that it dries out the first just enough to help with the separation. 

I normally cook 6 at a time. My process is press out 6 put them on the griddle. After I get all six on the griddle I will flip them. Then press out the next 3. Flip the ones on the griddle. Press out the next 3. Take the 6 off the griddle and into a towel to steam and stay hot. The next six are ready to go o into the griddle. Repeat as necessary. 

I also just use a dry griddle. No oil on that. 

Botch

Legume said:

Sounds like you’re on the right road - fwiw, the puffing is somewhat annoying to me, have to tamp them down so I don’t end up with a fragile tortilla.

The videos on EweTube all puff, and none of them "tamp them down", they automatically collapse when removed from the heat.  None of them were fragile.  And I thought that was an integral part of proper cooking?  

Botch

Ozzie_Isaac said:
Also, @Botch why go thicker?  I usually aim for thinner.

Just trying to get my "puff" to match those on EweTube.  

Botch

loco_engr said:

Very interesting post when I have google stuff I haven't heard before (or prob forgot) 
I envy your energy...

Heh, it isn't energy, it's RETIREMENT!  Enough time to play at my own pace.  

Botch

Ozzie_Isaac said:
The hardest part is finding an abuela and properly seasoned presses and hot plates.  It takes generations and thousands upon thousands of tortillas to properly season everything.

Thank goodness I cover those centuries of seasoning with sheets of plastic!  Hordes of lactating Tuscans may come for my throat, but I'm peeling nice smooth tortillas by cheating the system!  

Legume

It’s very possible I’m doing it all wrong, haven’t watched any tortilla making videos, but I’m happy with the ones I make.

alaskanassasin

Legume said:

It’s very possible I’m doing it all wrong, haven’t watched any videos, but I’m happy with the ones I make.

you might want to put that quote into context. I mean there is a lot to work with there.

buzd504

Botch said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:
The hardest part is finding an abuela and properly seasoned presses and hot plates.  It takes generations and thousands upon thousands of tortillas to properly season everything.

Thank goodness I cover those centuries of seasoning with sheets of plastic!  Hordes of lactating Tuscans may come for my throat, but I'm peeling nice smooth tortillas by cheating the system!  

Use a gallon ziploc and cut the sides out.  Then you don't have to deal with plastic wrap and all that.  Use it over and over.

GrateEggspectations

Great narrative and photos, @Botch. Thank you for sharing. 

CPARKTX2

I have never made homemade corn tortillas that were better than I can get from a local Hispanic lady, and at least in this area you can readily find someone.  I've also purchased the masa ready to press out and those were really good.

Another tip that I've found is that cooking them in a pan seems to get me better results than cooking over fire.  

Your cook looks great! Stay at it!

caliking

smak said:

When I cook tortillas I do not generally get them to puff unless I do this…. After putting them on the griddle, flip them after 10 seconds. Then cook as normal, flip after 45 seconds and then go another minutes. On the second flip they usually puff up.  Not sure the exact chemistry but I think that it dries out the first just enough to help with the separation. 

I normally cook 6 at a time. My process is press out 6 put them on the griddle. After I get all six on the griddle I will flip them. Then press out the next 3. Flip the ones on the griddle. Press out the next 3. Take the 6 off the griddle and into a towel to steam and stay hot. The next six are ready to go o into the griddle. Repeat as necessary. 

I also just use a dry griddle. No oil on that. 

This. It sears one side, to seal in some moisture. So when you flip, and cook the other side, the steam helps puff it up. 

Learned this when I made pupusa a while ago. Cooking the first side for a minute, and then flipping, turned out a tough/chewy pupusa. Letting it cook for a few seconds, and then flipping, led to some puffage, and a much better pupusa. 

Ozzie_Isaac

Bumping lest @Botch forgets to update us.

Botch

Failure #4 I made enough tortillas to last three meals (and the thicker ones were too thick, going back to 8 tortillas/cup).  I've got enough pork left to make some nachos with those Tostito "Scoops" for the superbowl, then I need to eat something else for awhile.  
I'll bump this thread again when I finally figure out the "puff".   

Gulfcoastguy

I just bought a bag of instant masa. I have a 5 inch nonstick pancake maker that I received for Christmas 2021.. Couldn’t I put a ping pong ball of dough in there, cook for a couple of minutes and finish in the oven or Egg? I have been looking for a way of making tacos for sliced pork tenderloins anyway if we ever have Eggfests again.

caliking

Fvck you @Botch - thanks for sending me down the rabbit hole a bit.

Bought a bag of masa harina, and tried the recipe on the bag, to establish a baseline for reference. Masa 1 cup + water 3/4 cup + pinch of salt. Tortillas puffed a bit (30-40%), and were ok. Not great. 

Came across this:

https://youtu.be/HzKuWBDDLPg

Just masa harina and water. She got the puff. Noted that her dough has more water/higher hydration. So, tried masa 1cup (100g) + water 230g + NaCl pinch. Let it hydrate for a bit.  

 This dough was too wet. Added masa 25g. Let it hydrate for a bit. Still hard to peel of the plastic after pressing. About 10 secs on the first side, then flipped. Not much puff. Added masa 25 g  again to the dough (total 150g). These were better,  but, still no puff. Cooked tortillas were wrapped in a towel, and left alone for 20ish mins. 

Trying to get the feel of things,  before adding in fat, AP flour, hot water, etc. 

I have it on good authority that fresh, warm tortillas, with some butter, and cinnamon sugar, are a good way to dispose of the “experiments”

Botch

Thanks @caliking.  She must use a hotter pan than I had been, I never heard a sizzle, nor got brown spots so quickly.  Keep me posted!  

YukonRon

I quit making them a long time ago. Our son's fiancé of 5 years, from El Salvador, kinda rocks the tortillas for us. Do not know her process, do not care, they are just phenomenal. Without her I buy them already made in bulk.