questions about using a Thermoworks billows and smoke leaking out between base and dome

danhoo

I guess I'm not sure what normal is, and if I have some work to do or if this is just fine.

I recently replaced my LBGE base with a warranty replacement, and put a new new rutland gasket from @RRP sealed up with the high temp RTV. I'm using the older style, original from 2011 bands.

A month or so ago I  bought a Thermoworks Billows driven by a smoke X4. -- LOVE IT !! and I'm just starting to use it more, however when the billows is running, sometimes I see smoke leaking out between the base and the dome.

Is this normal?

I first thought the lid needed adjustment, but I loosened the top band during a cook so the band was doing nothing and the dome was firmly seated on the base yet smoke was still leaking out.

so do I have more work to do? or is it common for a fan to push smoke out of everywhere?

nolaegghead

I wouldn't worry about the smoke from the gasket if it's only when the fan is running.  it just means you're increasing the pressure, when it's running, enough to push some air/smoke out the the gasket.

If that bothers you, open the top vent more to drop the pressure.  On that style of stoker, the temp is controlled with the bottom vent and fan.  (if it's what I think it is - bottom fan)

Not related to this issue but to controlling temp from the bottom - make sure you have the vent gate on the fan set so enough air gets through without the fan running to keep the fire alive.  Generally this is equivalent to the lowest temp you can maintain without a stoker.  Reason I mention this is because you could have the top vent almost totally closed, bottom vent full open and let the fan do all the work, which would also create enough static pressure inside to squeeze through the gasket.

MasterC

Starting a cold egg with a genius pushes a little smoke as well🙄 

Twas in a rush

ColtsFan

FB300 does the same thing here. You could do the dollar bill test just to make sure it's kosher.

stlcharcoal

The fan on the Thermoworks Billows is WAAAAAY too powerful for the BGE.  46 CFM single speed.  A Large BGE can run on a 5 CFM fan no problem, and a FlameBoss variable speed fan runs even slower than that.

I heard they put a damper on the thing, so make sure you've got it dampered all the way down. 

danhoo

nolaegghead said:

I wouldn't worry about the smoke from the gasket if it's only when the fan is running.  it just means you're increasing the pressure, when it's running, enough to push some air/smoke out the the gasket.

If that bothers you, open the top vent more to drop the pressure.  On that style of stoker, the temp is controlled with the bottom vent and fan.  (if it's what I think it is - bottom fan)

Not related to this issue but to controlling temp from the bottom - make sure you have the vent gate on the fan set so enough air gets through without the fan running to keep the fire alive.  Generally this is equivalent to the lowest temp you can maintain without a stoker.  Reason I mention this is because you could have the top vent almost totally closed, bottom vent full open and let the fan do all the work, which would also create enough static pressure inside to squeeze through the gasket.

Thanks for this. Daisy wheel was almost completely closed and smoke pushed out the gasket only when the fan was running. 

I'll start experimenting with it more. I've had 5 cooks with the billows with the new base and so far its been working very well. Just wasn't sure about the gasket.

danhoo

stlcharcoal said:

The fan on the Thermoworks Billows is WAAAAAY too powerful for the BGE.  46 CFM single speed.  A Large BGE can run on a 5 CFM fan no problem, and a FlameBoss variable speed fan runs even slower than that.

I heard they put a damper on the thing, so make sure you've got it dampered all the way down. 

Thanks. I won't disagree that the CFM may be too powerful, yet so far it has worked very well.  I'll keep experimenting and  I'll check on the damper.  thanks again.

danhoo

I guess I don't 'have a damper. It's a three dollar option. I'll see how it goes without it.

https://www.thermoworks.com/TX-1609X-BD

nolaegghead

Right....I can't believe that wasn't included by default.  Three bucks?

https://www.thermoworks.com/TX-1609X-BD

nolaegghead

You could put some painter's tape on the inlet in the interim.   You only need maybe .75 cm^2 opening to keep it around 225F, 

EzraBrooks

Maybe a dumb question, but doesn't putting a damper on a temp controller pretty much make the temp controller unnecessary?  If you're going to figure out damper settings, why wouldn't you just do it on the one that comes with the egg.

danhoo

 I didn't know there was a damper until I read about it above, and for me I'm not sure I need one. 

So far I've set the temp on the Smoke X4 and has quite simply worked. The first two times I used it I watched it closely to see what it did and it worked just fine.

The pattern was:
- start lump in chimney, dump coals, add platesetter, drip pan and cooking grille.  
- close lid until dome gets to about 200F, which was pretty fast.
- close down daisywheel, clip in billows, attach temp sensor to the grate
- connect wires to the smoke X4, turn it on, set the temp
- wait until it hits target temp, usually a few mins

The lowest starting temp I've done was 140, and the fan kicked on, temps climbed to about 200F at a moderate pace. Not as fast if I opened top and bottom full, but a degree or two or three every second or so.

when the grate temp reached 200 or 210F with target temp setting of 250F the fan shut off and it coasted for a little, and then the smoke X pulsed the fan a few times until temp reached about 245. It slowly crept up and around an occasionally the fan was pulsed.  I left it this way for a few mins and then put food on.

I don't have temp graphing, but once the food was on, temps came back pretty quickly to high 240s and every time I looked it was within a few degrees of 250.

As I said in the beginning, I don't think I need a damper for this temp range, but I don't know about lower temps.

It may be that without damper, and without the fan running there is too much air intake to damp the egg down to 220 or less, but so far for 250F target temps, with very warm ambient temp ( 90F and up ) I've had no issues.

I'm still learning this and have a 12 lb pork but to smoke fairly soon so that will be the real test I think.

nolaegghead

EzraBrooks said:

Maybe a dumb question, but doesn't putting a damper on a temp controller pretty much make the temp controller unnecessary?  If you're going to figure out damper settings, why wouldn't you just do it on the one that comes with the egg.

Not a dumb question.   The vent/dampers on the egg don't control temp.  They control the amount of air going through the egg. 

A temperature controller is immune to heat load, ambient temp, wind, humidity and all the other factors that influence the temperature with static vent settings.

The damper just controls the amount of air allowed in when the fan is turned off, almost a bypass.  The fan is either on or off (for most controllers). 

nolaegghead

danhoo said:

 I didn't know there was a damper until I read about it above, and for me I'm not sure I need one. 

So far I've set the temp on the Smoke X4 and has quite simply worked. The first two times I used it I watched it closely to see what it did and it worked just fine.

The pattern was:
- start lump in chimney, dump coals, add platesetter, drip pan and cooking grille.  
- close lid until dome gets to about 200F, which was pretty fast.
- close down daisywheel, clip in billows, attach temp sensor to the grate
- connect wires to the smoke X4, turn it on, set the temp
- wait until it hits target temp, usually a few mins

The lowest starting temp I've done was 140, and the fan kicked on, temps climbed to about 200F at a moderate pace. Not as fast if I opened top and bottom full, but a degree or two or three every second or so.

when the grate temp reached 200 or 210F with target temp setting of 250F the fan shut off and it coasted for a little, and then the smoke X pulsed the fan a few times until temp reached about 245. It slowly crept up and around an occasionally the fan was pulsed.  I left it this way for a few mins and then put food on.

I don't have temp graphing, but once the food was on, temps came back pretty quickly to high 240s and every time I looked it was within a few degrees of 250.

As I said in the beginning, I don't think I need a damper for this temp range, but I don't know about lower temps.

It may be that without damper, and without the fan running there is too much air intake to damp the egg down to 220 or less, but so far for 250F target temps, with very warm ambient temp ( 90F and up ) I've had no issues.

I'm still learning this and have a 12 lb pork but to smoke fairly soon so that will be the real test I think.

Seems to me that unit operates a bit differently as the fan feeds all air rather than augments a natural flow.  If that's the way it was designed, follow instructions and yeah, you'll get some smoke from the gasket.

lkapigian

I used a controller for a while on my large , totally unnecessary...just an unneeded obsession...it will run itself just fine

RRP

lkapigian said:

I used a controller for a while on my large , totally unnecessary...just an unneeded obsession...it will run itself just fine

I agree! I bought one of the early BBQ Guru's right after the late Shotgun Fred invented it. I used it primarily because I had spent the money to buy it! When it finally went bad and could not be fixed I bought a replacement also a BBQ Guru. That was maybe 7 or 8 years ago and I have used it once!

alaskanassasin

doesn't that yellow thing twist?

danhoo

alaskanassasin said:

doesn't that yellow thing twist?

The yellow thing is an optional, adjustable baffle and it looks like it does twist.

I don't have one.

danhoo

RRP said:

lkapigian said:

I used a controller for a while on my large , totally unnecessary...just an unneeded obsession...it will run itself just fine

I agree! I bought one of the early BBQ Guru's right after the late Shotgun Fred invented it. I used it primarily because I had spent the money to buy it! When it finally went bad and could not be fixed I bought a replacement also a BBQ Guru. That was maybe 7 or 8 years ago and I have used it once!

I won't disagree that some don't need a controller, however I have not reached that point.  For me it is an easy button.

 

nolaegghead

There's nothing wrong with stokers.  

Once they invented thermostats, they put them on ovens.  The egg is an oven.

But rheostats and valves also work for ovens. 

alaskanassasin

danhoo said:

alaskanassasin said:

doesn't that yellow thing twist?

The yellow thing is an optional, adjustable baffle and it looks like it does twist.

I don't have one.

Roger, not your picture.

danhoo

Ron, aka @RRP sent me a note privately which is why I'm adding this comment.

In my first post I mentioned I got my replacement base and a new Rutland gasket. 

I hope none of what I've written above leads anyone to think that I am unhappy in any way with the Rutland gasket I bought from Ron, or that it is a problem causing the smoke to leak out.

The gasket is great, the price was awesome and Ron is a stand up guy dropping me a note offering to make it right if I wasn't happy.

I'm sure that this is all old news for the 7000 +/- others with his gasket but in case someone trips across this thread I wanted it clear the gasket is great.

What I didn't know was that a fan could push smoke out the seam between the base and the lid, and now I do.

Cheers,

danhoo

danhoo said:

Ron, aka @RRP sent me a note privately which is why I'm adding this comment.

In my first post I mentioned I got my replacement base and a new Rutland gasket. 

I hope none of what I've written above leads anyone to think that I am unhappy in any way with the Rutland gasket I bought from Ron, or that it is a problem causing the smoke to leak out.

The gasket is great, the price was awesome and Ron is a stand up guy dropping me a note offering to make it right if I wasn't happy.

I'm sure that this is all old news for the 7000 +/- others with his gasket but in case someone trips across this thread I wanted it clear the gasket is great.

What I didn't know was that a fan could push smoke out the seam between the base and the lid, and now I do.

Cheers,

update on smoke being pushed out the seam when using the billows:

TL;DR:
- dome and base not aligned correctly
- hinge and base/dome clamps not set correctly preventing the lid from fully closing

This weekend I smoked some pastrami, and I saw a small amount of smoke leaking out the seam. It was a nice day so I just adjusted it mid-smoke which worked great.

After loosening all the hinge bolts and the two clamp bolts I was able to push the dome forward about 1/8 inch and with the full weight of the dome resting on the base there was no smoke leaking between the seam. I decided to hook up the billows for a few mins to force some air into it and again with the clamp and hinge bolts loose there was no smoke coming from the seam. I forced the billows to run by raising the set point and closed up the daisy wheel vents almost completely. Still no smoke from the base/dome seam and eventually some smoke started leaking out the bottom slide vent.

So in the end it was just poor lid and hinge alignment.