OT- Any plumbers? Need help troubleshooting well pressure tank.

Toxarch

Disclaimer: The house and well are less than 5 years old. There was a hard freeze in February, some frozen pipes in the house but no burst pipes. I am not a plumber. Sorry for the large pictures.

We have had a lot of rain lately so I turned off the sprinklers. I run the sprinklers late at night so that they are done running by morning and I have good pressure for the showers. This problem seems to have started within the last 2 weeks since I shut the sprinklers off. I did shut off the valve to the sprinkler line while troubleshooting this. I also flipped the well breaker off and back on.

I have noticed a lot of low pressure when running the faucets. You really notice it when 2 things are running like the toilet tank filling back up and the faucet running.

I believe the pressure switch is a Square D 30/50.



I checked the meter on the water softener and it shows that there is not any water flowing inside the house.



Here is the well power box incase you need to know that:



Here is the tank pressure with everything off. This is normally close to 60psi.



This is my pressure when a faucet is open:



Pulled the cover off the switch, disengaged it with the lever, and tested the voltage across the wires.
1-3 was 120v
2-4 was 120v
1-4 was 240v
2-3 was 0v





It would not disengage the contacts without flipping the lever up.

I am guessing that since it is not running the well pump to pressure up to 60psi when the contacts are closed, that it is a bad well pump. I am hoping not. I am hoping that it is just the switch since that is a $30 part. But like I said, I am not a plumber so I am here to see if you have any ideas or things I should try. I think the well is somewhere around 340 feet deep and I would assume that it does not flow naturally without a pump. There is water flowing from the faucet. Maybe the tank bladder failed?

Thoughts? Anything I should try? Any more info you need?

SGH

Does the pump kick on immediately when you open a faucet and kick off almost instantly when you close the faucet?

lousubcap

I am no plumber but do want to acknowledge the wealth of information and data you provided to help those with that skill set.  Given the lack of system pressure that is supplied by your pump on a constant basis then I would lean toward the pump or the regulator as the issue.  What happened when you restored the sprinkler system to service-aka reverted to the old normal?  After that I'm just gonna follow this one.
Best of luck.  

SGH

If the answer to the above is yes, then you have an air to water volume issue rather it’s a bladder or bladder less tank. 

The bladder should have 2 less psi than the actual pump turn off pressure. If your cut off pressure is 60 your bladder pressure should be 58. To get a accurate reading on the bladder pressure you will need to drain the water from the tank first. 

That’s about all I can offer my friend. Good luck. 

nolaegghead

 You should have 0V between 2-3 when it is off and 240 between them when it's on.

That you're getting 120 off between 1-3 and 2-4 may be from a ground fault in the motor. 

nolaegghead

You are always going to get 240 between 1-4, that's the line voltage.  2-3 is the load.

nolaegghead

If the motor is in water, water in the housing would explain that.  A leak in the housing or wires. 

nolaegghead

Measure resistance from each load line to ground.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=test+for+electrical+leak+in+well+pump#kpvalbx=_Gli8YLryGda3tAaO7KbwCA34

CornfedMA

I’m thinking similar to @SGH on this one. If you rock the tank, is it waterlogged? If you recharge it with air will it hold pressure? Do the contacts open and close every time you turn the water on/off? I’m no plumber, but I think you hit the nail on the head with the failed bladder in the pressure tank. The downstream effect of that might also be a weak/failing well pump. If you’re bladder is pooched, it forces the well pump to cycle on/off every single
time you flow water, which is terrible for well pumps. 

alaskanassasin

Did you try turning the pressure up?

alaskanassasin

You should be able to adjust your well pressure with flat head screwdriver if I remember right

alaskanassasin

Pressure switch I think has screws on it, Leave the water running and play with those. 

alaskanassasin

Also it could be burst pipe somewhere outside maybe even the well line in the casing

Toxarch

I closed off the water valve after the pressure switch and turned off the breaker to the well pump. I connected a hose and tried to drain off any water in the tank. I can rock the pressure tank and it feels empty. Using an air gauge, the pressure in the tank reads 34.5 psi. Shouldn't that be like 48 psi with a 30/50 pressure switch?

Good news is that my home appliance warranty does cover all the well equipment. They are sending someone to check it out sometime this week. Hopefully they cover the repairs. Had issues with them in the past. 

poster

No it should be 28. The pressure should be 2 lbs less then the cut in number not the cut out number.  Sometimes there is a plate seperating the bladder from the water. Ive seen these get stuck too keeping the bladder from pushing on the water.

alaskanassasin

Toxarch said:

I closed off the water valve after the pressure switch and turned off the breaker to the well pump. I connected a hose and tried to drain off any water in the tank. I can rock the pressure tank and it feels empty. Using an air gauge, the pressure in the tank reads 34.5 psi. Shouldn't that be like 48 psi with a 30/50 pressure switch?

Good news is that my home appliance warranty does cover all the well equipment. They are sending someone to check it out sometime this week. Hopefully they cover the repairs. Had issues with them in the past. 

let us know what they find.

Toxarch

It could have been a 40/60 switch. I was thinking it was a 30/60 but couldn't find any so I guessed 30/50.

fishlessman

when the tank bladder isnt pressurized adequately at my house the pump turns on and off every few minutes while all the faucets are off. repressurizing it is something like ten steps i wrote down on the tank so i dont have to guess next time

Toxarch

Update: Home warranty company said the well coverage was not on my policy. Called a local well company and they sent a truck out.
At first he thought the well was drying up. Then his boss said to pull the motor and maybe the impeller shaft was wearing out. Pulled the pump motor out and right away spotted the cracked motor housing. The house is 5 years old this year so hopefully the motor is still under warranty. If not, that's a $1340 new motor plus 4 hours labor for 2 men.







New pump with stainless impeller:

Toxarch

Also bumped the pressure up to about 67 psi. Awesome water pressure now.