Best internal brisket temp before FTC

dstearn

After cooking a few briskets I have concluded that my biggest mistake has been not letting the brisket temp settle before FTC.
After pulling the brisket off the egg what is the recommended internal temp to FTC? My plan is to hold in the cooler for at least 3’hours.

Foghorn

If I understand the question correctly...

When the brisket is done (meat temp is somewhere between 190 and 210 and the thickest part of the flat probes like "buttah") - most people recommend taking the brisket off the egg and letting it sit at room temp "for a few minutes" - I've read 5 to 20 minutes - to prevent "carry over" cooking - or a further rise in meat temp.

I've never heard of anyone specifically letting the brisket cool down to a particular temperature before the FTC phase.

The most important thing is that the meat temp needs to be at least 140 when you take it out AFTER the 3 hours of FTC and you slice it.  So, I don't know of any advantage to letting it cool before wrapping in the Foil and Towels and putting in in the Cooler (capital letters used for new members who don't know what FTC stands for).

Does that help?

JohnInCarolina

If it stands to reason that one doesn't cook a brisket to a specific temperature in the first place (fans of 195F notwithstanding), then I have a hard time imagining it would make sense to let it cool to a specific temperature before FTCing it.

So I'm with @Foghorn on this one - I think it only makes sense to wait about 10 minutes or so to prevent carry-over.  Whatever temp it is at after that waiting period will vary, but I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

kl8ton

I am not sure FTC is even covered in the brisket thread.  I'll bump it just in case. 

dstearn

Here is a video that prompted me to ask the question. Last time I cooked a brisket I let is sit out on the counter for 30 minutes then FTCed. After a few hours the brisket was 170 internal. My guests were hungry so I sliced it anyway which was a big mistake. Which is why I think that letting it cool down more prior to FTC would work. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsCVMmmNRec

BigreenGreg

I put a thermopop in it and wait for it to apex the curve so to speak. Usually 10-15 minutes. 

Money_Hillbilly

I usually place a thermopop in the brisket and when it gets to 185 or so I wrap tightly and drop in the cooler with towels.

Foghorn

While this makes sense, it seems that the other option would be to take it out of the FTC and just leave it wrapped in foil on the counter for 30-60 minutes before slicing - if you don't want to slice it at 170, but closer to 140-150.

I have no clue if that would give better or worse (or the same) results as a little cooling before the FTC...

BigreenGreg

It’s just an effort to not further the cooking process once it probes like butta.

Langner91

I must be the luckiest guy in the world.  I pull it off the grill already wrapped in foil, wrap it in a towel, and stuff it in a cooler.  Maybe mine always needs a little carryover cooking?

nolaegghead

I pull when tender everywhere, then let it sit on a cooling rack for 30 minutes before storing to eat later, but I'll use the oven unless I'm on the road.  

Optimal cut temperature is around 130F.  Any lower and you're cultivating bugs, any higher and what little water is in a brisket will evaporate and make it look dry.  Save the juice and dredge the meat through the juice if it looks dry...or spritz with some bullion or something.

Foghorn

Langner91 said:

I must be the luckiest guy in the world.  I pull it off the grill already wrapped in foil, wrap it in a towel, and stuff it in a cooler.  Maybe mine always needs a little carryover cooking?

That's a great comment @Langner91.  Mine come off wrapped in butcher paper, but I was thinking basically the same thing.  When you are cooking at less than 300 degrees the likelihood of carryover cooking you taking you past "done" to "overdone and falling apart" must be very low.  Just taking it off the grill, setting it on some room temperature foil and wrapping it seems to work very well for me.  Then I put it in a cooler with a warm moist towel on the bottom and a dry towel wrapped around the brisket.  Remove it from the cooler about 10 - 20 minutes before I want to slice it.  I may let it cool a little more based on @nolaegghead's comment above.

nolaegghead

There isn't much carryover cooking in a brisket.  Everyone posts graphs of their brisket cook, you can see the temp very slowly rising in the meat over time (except after the stall). 

The reason you would want to cool it down post cook is to give it a head start on dropping the temp for serving.  It's already tender, so there's no benefit in keeping it around 200F other than it looses more moisture being hot than it does being less hot.

You can see a good example of this in sous vide cooking, more juice in the bag on longer cooks.  Probably not significant overall.  If you are trying to keep it hot in a cooler at a camp site for 15 hours, don't let it cool at all, FTC right away. 

Some people will swear the FTC is important to the quality, but I think it's just a mental conclusion based on the same factors where people see patterns in randomness.

JohnInCarolina

nolaegghead said:

Some people will swear the FTC is important to the quality, but I think it's just a mental conclusion based on the same factors where people see patterns in randomness.

Sort of like Dunning-Kruger, but for BBQ?

nolaegghead

JohnInCarolina said:

nolaegghead said:

Some people will swear the FTC is important to the quality, but I think it's just a mental conclusion based on the same factors where people see patterns in randomness.

Sort of like Dunning-Kruger, but for BBQ?

Yeah, the BBQ analog is "Adam Perry Lang".  All those little steps and details are ESSENTIAL to the final outcome.  (probably a bad comparison, sorry folks)

JohnInCarolina

nolaegghead said:

JohnInCarolina said:

nolaegghead said:

Some people will swear the FTC is important to the quality, but I think it's just a mental conclusion based on the same factors where people see patterns in randomness.

Sort of like Dunning-Kruger, but for BBQ?

Yeah, the BBQ analog is "Adam Perry Lang".  All those little steps and details are ESSENTIAL to the final outcome.  (probably a bad comparison, sorry folks)

I think folks just try a brisket that is better than one they are used to, ask the cook what they did, and then just adopt whatever sounds different, regardless of whether or not it makes sense or has a justification.  

"The secret is to use pickle juice..."

lousubcap

So says John Lewis-
"The secret is to use pickle juice..."
And then you read and get the whole story.   

dstearn

So here is my plan. Cook at 225 the whole cook and wrap in paper or foil once the color and fat rendering looks good. I may use foil to speed up the cook. After it probes tender let it rest on the counter. If the cook is done early rest on the counter until the internal temp is 185 then FTC in the cooler. 
Monitor temp with Dot to see when I need to remove it prior to serving. 

If the brisket is done within 1-2 hours prior to serving I will just let it rest on the counter till it is 145 internal.

SonVolt

@nolaegghead

It's already tender, so there's no benefit in keeping it around 200F other than it loses more moisture being hot than it does being less hot.

I have a feeling this is key, and the main reason to justify letting the temps drop between 150-170F before placing in a warmer/cooler. I could be wrong, but this actually seems plausible and would have a net positive effect on moistness. I love that word.

I don't know what everyone's opinion on the MadScientist guy is, but he recommends letting the brisket sit at room temp long enough to drop to 150F before holding for extended periods. 

I've always went straight from smoker to cooler, so I'm going to give a shot next time. 

SmokeyPitt

Foghorn said:

Langner91 said:

I must be the luckiest guy in the world.  I pull it off the grill already wrapped in foil, wrap it in a towel, and stuff it in a cooler.  Maybe mine always needs a little carryover cooking?

That's a great comment @Langner91.  Mine come off wrapped in butcher paper, but I was thinking basically the same thing.  When you are cooking at less than 300 degrees the likelihood of carryover cooking you taking you past "done" to "overdone and falling apart" must be very low.  Just taking it off the grill, setting it on some room temperature foil and wrapping it seems to work very well for me.  Then I put it in a cooler with a warm moist towel on the bottom and a dry towel wrapped around the brisket.  Remove it from the cooler about 10 - 20 minutes before I want to slice it.  I may let it cool a little more based on @nolaegghead's comment above.

FWIW the best brisket I have made I did the following:

• Cooked over night

• Probed in the morning until it was "almost there" (still some resistance). 
• I had **** to do, so I just wrapped in foil immediately and put in a cold oven and set it at the lowest temp (170). I put a couple of pans of water under to act as a heat sink. This was 7-8 hours before serving time. 
• Sometime during the day I checked it again for tenderness. It felt better...but still a little short of perfect. I turned the oven up to 225 for like 20 minutes, then back to 170. 
• Probed again...buttah. Continued to hold at 170. 
• About 45 minutes before serving removed from oven and let rest on the cutting board before slicing. 

So, that was a long way of saying I pulled it off a little early, and then used the oven to slowly finish it with some manual temp adjustments. 

Tspud1

What does the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) have to do with brisket?

nolaegghead

Tspud1 said:

What does the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) have to do with brisket?

They share an acronym.

Langner91

nolaegghead said:

Tspud1 said:

What does the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) have to do with brisket?

They share an acronym.

Technically, an initialism since you can't pronounce FTC without saying the letters.

NASA is an acronym.

But, I know you know that.

nolaegghead

Yeah, I stand corrected!

dstearn

Started the brisket at 2 AM with S&P. Wrapped in foil when it hit 170 ish. Pulled at 14 hours at 202 internal.
Let it rest until it hit 185 and placed in cooler to hold.
Served when it was 145 internal. One of the better briskets I have cooked. The thinner part of the flat was dry but the rest of it and the point turned out wellZ

Foghorn

That looks outstanding.

dstearn

Foghorn said:

That looks outstanding.

Thanks, everyone enjoyed it. I had to re light the XL several times. I think it could be due to the BGE Fire Bowl.

lousubcap

Great result.  Congrats.
Regarding the relighting on a XL, I have not heard of that issue on the XL in several years.  What was your dome temperature during the cook?  Did you get straight down burn patterns such that the fire self extinguished when it did not move to fresh fuel?   FWIW-

dstearn

lousubcap said:

Great result.  Congrats.
Regarding the relighting on a XL, I have not heard of that issue on the XL in several years.  What was your dome temperature during the cook?  Did you get straight down burn patterns such that the fire self extinguished when it did not move to fresh fuel?   FWIW-

Thanks, I had the BGE Stainless Fire Bowl filled with lump up to the ring of the Woo2.
I did get straight down burn patterns the surrounding lump did not catch. Perhaps is is the Firebowl or I may have to start a smaller amount of lump first and then add more lump later? Not sure. In the past I would light the lump wait till the temp was at 225-250 range add wood chunks and then set the 18 in stone on the Woo2 until the temp rose back up. I always use a temp controller to control the temp during long cooks. The temp held at 235 grate 250 dome the entire night and then around lunch time it just sent down which is when I had to relight.

dstearn

This is what was left of the lump after the 14 hr cook. 

lousubcap

@dstearn - I had to "google" the BGE fire bowl as I did not know of its existence.  Reads like a knock-off of the kick ash basket but I don't use it either.  There is no way you need to light and then add lump given the lump load capacity of the XL.  Have you always used the fire bowl and this is the first issue or the first run with it?  Independent of that I would go back to the original grate for the next cook and see what happens. 
Straight down burns are extremely rare on XLs at least reported here.  I only have a L and S BGE so all above is based on what I have read on the forum and heard via some Zoom sessions.  FWIW-