When the going gets tough...

JohnInCarolina

Has helll frozen over?

Gulfcoastguy

To an extent Biden made the right decision with poor management of the details. If he had taken a couple of months and removed in order: US civilian employees, Afghan translators and their nuclear families, the more expensive and classified equipment like Apache helicopters, destroyed any classified parts of equipment that couldn’t be easily moved, and finally the remaining military from Bagram Airbase, finally Bleach Pit all remaining computers. 

dmchicago

Gulfcoastguy said:

To an extent Biden made the right decision with poor management of the details. If he had taken a couple of months and removed in order: US civilian employees, Afghan translators and their nuclear families, the more expensive and classified equipment like Apache helicopters, destroyed any classified parts of equipment that couldn’t be easily moved, and finally the remaining military from Bagram Airbase, finally Bleach Pit all remaining computers. 

Oh, yeah…there’d be cake, too?

Gulfcoastguy

Sorry but that is as far as I am willing to go. Maybe you have better suggestions?

JohnInCarolina

Gulfcoastguy said:

To an extent Biden made the right decision with poor management of the details. If he had taken a couple of months and removed in order: US civilian employees, Afghan translators and their nuclear families, the more expensive and classified equipment like Apache helicopters, destroyed any classified parts of equipment that couldn’t be easily moved, and finally the remaining military from Bagram Airbase, finally Bleach Pit all remaining computers. 

The problem is that in fact a much earlier deadline for withdrawal, of May, had been negotiated with the Taliban by Trump.  Biden got them to extend that a couple of months, but that is as far as they would go.  The alternative to that would have been re-upping troop levels and deciding to fight the Taliban once again.

Instead, the vast majority of our military actually ended up leaving ahead of schedule over that period of months.  This has been well reported, but not given much attention in the mainstream press.

Biden deserves criticism for plenty of things, but I don’t think the speed of the withdrawal is actually one of them.

Gulfcoastguy

The speed no, the order yes.

JohnInCarolina

Gulfcoastguy said:

The speed no, the order yes.

You realize they had essentially been telegraphing that civilians might want to leave for months before all of this, right?  That the military would be out by the end of August?

Were they to have insisted that all civilians leave the country first, starting say back in May, the Biden admin would have been telling the whole world that they had zero confidence in the Afghan government to hold the line.  How do you think that would have worked out?

The issue is that people (including civilians in Kabul) simply didn’t expect the Afghan military to fall so quickly, and so on.  That is a big part of what forced the rushed evacuation of civilians in the end. 

Gulfcoastguy

Biden had no problem not honoring other Trump agreements. Remain in Mexico and the Keystone Pipeline are just two that come to mind. Also Biden took power in January, he didn't have to wait until May to start the removal. As to civilians, you do realize that most of these were civilian contractors being paid by the US to maintain the equipment that we donated to the Afghans? We stop paying them, they get on a plane and go home. Regardless we should seize the multiple millions of dollars that the Afghan president fled with. Millions of dollars that he skimmed from the US by not paying his troops for months before the fall.

fishlessman

putting a well known idiot in charge.....what could possibly go wrong

JohnInCarolina

Gulfcoastguy said:

Biden had no problem not honoring other Trump agreements.

So, let's unpack that a little bit and imagine Biden chose not to honor this one.  What do you imagine would have happened next between US forces and the Taliban?  Would that result have made it easier, or more difficult for us to withdraw subsequently?

Biden chose to keep this agreement in place because he felt getting out of Afghanistan was the right thing to do.  Once you understand that, the question is how best to do it given the constraints that were in place.  The details of that exit will surely be criticized by people for decades to come, especially armchair warriors who were never involved in the discussions.  

As for your claim that most of the US citizens in the country were civilian contractors being paid to maintain equipment, do you have a source or a link to back that up?  

JohnInCarolina

Has this been posted in this thread before?  If not, enjoy. Happy Friday Eve my friends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n3sUWR4FV4

dmchicago

nolaegghead

dmchicago said:

 Emblematic of  amount of unnecessary human suffering and misery that Texan women will be wearing in the future, as will more states as the extortion laws are passed based on this precedent (or lack thereof).

Gulfcoastguy

In my state contraception is available, including Plan B, to any woman. Usually free of charge if you don't have insurance coverage. They don't require parental approval. 

nolaegghead

Gulfcoastguy said:

In my state contraception is available, including Plan B, to any woman. Usually free of charge if you don't have insurance coverage. They don't require parental approval. 

That's great.  Access to contraceptives is a right.  Contraceptives aren't 100% effective, unfortunately.

JohnInCarolina

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1437903781270855681?s=20

JohnInCarolina

Dan Quayle, of all people.  Wouldn’t have called that one.  Not in a million years.

nolaegghead

JohnInCarolina said:

Dan Quayle, of all people.  Wouldn’t have called that one.  Not in a million years.

I read that.  Talk about hitting rock bottom.

Imagine Trump was a king in a land with no laws.  He would massacre the blue states.  I mean literally, like genocide. 

lousubcap

Interesting read-
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/politics/woodward-costa-book-trump-afghanistan-memo/index.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB: 9.15.21&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

nolaegghead

lousubcap said:

Interesting read-
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/politics/woodward-costa-book-trump-afghanistan-memo/index.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB: 9.15.21&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

I've read a couple of Woodward's books.  He does a pretty good job of documenting contemporaneous material and the recollections of witnesses to the various and sundry machinations of the players involved.

As in the past, Trump will deny, even if it's recorded and played for the world to see, all the "unfavorable" material as "fake news" and that declaration will inconceivably (that word doesn't mean what it used to) lead people to believe every bit of what he says. 

Hence the problem we have.

If you are not terrified of this man, enjoy your bliss. Blowing up the world is not just hyperbole when it comes to mad-men.

lousubcap

Woodward also does great interviews (at least in the past).  I'm sure he will be on the interview circuit with this.  
He and Carl Bernstein took down Richard Nixon.  

JohnInCarolina

https://twitter.com/SalterWobchak/status/1438965512067850243?s=20

nolaegghead

JohnInCarolina said:

https://twitter.com/SalterWobchak/status/1438965512067850243?s=20

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49323324

nolaegghead

seems legit

lousubcap

Follow the money here as in the long game that is the driver.  However, setting up an enterprise to support nuclear powered submarines is way more than $$ 3B just to crank one out.  The tail is quite extensive and expensive, from the education and training to the maintenance support structure as well.  We are fairly good at building them and it takes around 7 years.  
I would rather we build a few more (Australia can buy them...) and let them operate them out of Guam where we have a maintenance support infrastructure.  Besides, it is closer to China.  
Just a retired submariner.  BTW- the GWN neighbours thought about this concept in the mid '80s and once they sharpened the pencils, they walked away.  This sounds much more developed and politically driven.  

Gulfcoastguy

Maybe they are toying with the idea of nuclear power plants on land also. 

JohnInCarolina

https://twitter.com/HelenKennedy/status/1439260341217734661?s=20

JohnInCarolina

Going all in on the crazy:

lousubcap

Can't wait to read Peril.  

JohnInCarolina

https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1440119836500234242?s=20