Steak - The harder I try to further away I get

nolaegghead

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

i prefer the trex method with a tweak. heavey salt for the sear (dont burn the pepper or rub) that goes on while it rests on a rack (not a cold plate) during the rest on goes the pepper or rub. then roast below 400f dome til done (123 fora strip, 127 for a ribeye. then its back on a rack for a few minutes, never directly to a cold plate

Some pepper steak (steak au poivre) is cooked with the peppercorns pressed into the steak before searing (don't do this indoors).  Others it's added after.

straight up steak i dislike burnt pepper and usually just apply at the table. cognac sauce seems to fix that for me

It's an acquired taste (normally acquired from one's dad burning steaks who approaches grilling like a caveman).

Mark_B_Good

It's 100% the quality of the beef. Every restaurant that I've had that sort of experience with gets their beef from a particular farm, who uses a particular method, and they targeted getting meet from that farm. It's the secret.

After that ... a real good steak ... just don't overcook it.  There's so many ways to do it ... I like to sear my steaks, then drop the temperature to finish the cook, aiming for medium rare. 

If I am serious about the steak I'm cooking ... it's gonna be a rib steak all the way.  At least 1.25" thick ... and most times 1.5" to 1.75" thick.

A buddy of mine actually finishes it in a pan, and tops it with butter and herbs ... and wow, oh so juicy. 

HendersonTRKing

WTF do I know?  I used to be scared of spending $$$ on steaks, but this forum has ruined me for that and I'm all-in when SRF occasionally flashes a decent sale.  And I used to do all sorts of things in terms of marinating and futzing with the meat, but after a bunch of years on the forum, I'm now off that, too.  

I pretty much do Montreal seasoning when I want more crust.  For less crust, it's just S&P or Holy Cow and more recently Momofuku seasoned salts, which are excellent umami bombs.  With thinner cuts, it's hot and fast (have yet to sack up and try caveman direct on the coals).  For anything over an inch thick, it's a reverse sear.  Pretty happy with results and prepandemic I rarely went to steakhouses anymore.  Right about now, I'd love to sit in that atmosphere and soak it in, but that isn't in the cards.  And I don't think the steak on the plate is all that much better than what I'm doing these days after being out here and learning from the best.

nolaegghead

jdMyers said:

Everyone in this fourm has cooked a steak every which way possible.  But for me, im chasing a flavor in my head.  I know its simple.  But it aint

The restaurant name is unimportant.  But ever go some place, am outback, or long horn, or a fancy Jeff Rubys over priced place and the flavor of the steak is just memorable.  You can almost smell it now.

They all say the same thing.  Just S.P.G. is all they use.  Simple seasonings just before the grill.  No marinade, no over night.  Just cooked and served.

Meanwhile I have 3 cabinets of seasonings and I swear my steaks come out blah.  

Ive seared, reversed seared, 80,000 btu seared, smoked, rotisseried, slow cooked torched.  Just cant seem to find it.

Any real tips or shared experiences.  My steaks look incredible just missing something.  I have fine finish salts, Himalayan salt, sea salt, salt scrub and good old fashioned sand.  Nadda.

Chime in please

You know how (at least for me) when you are camping and cooking on that crappy grate over the fire pit or the vandal-proof grill on the pipe in the ground...food tastes incredible.  There's a situational bias that kicks in for some people that make food away from home taste better/more memorable.  Maybe this is a survival mechanism...we were originally nomadic hunter/gatherers for most of our species existence.  Camping, eating out at restaurants, it's maybe more memorable because we're going back to those archaic roots. 

If that's the case, you just can't win.

Or maybe I'm just making this all up.

Mark_B_Good

nolaegghead said:

jdMyers said:

Everyone in this fourm has cooked a steak every which way possible.  But for me, im chasing a flavor in my head.  I know its simple.  But it aint

The restaurant name is unimportant.  But ever go some place, am outback, or long horn, or a fancy Jeff Rubys over priced place and the flavor of the steak is just memorable.  You can almost smell it now.

They all say the same thing.  Just S.P.G. is all they use.  Simple seasonings just before the grill.  No marinade, no over night.  Just cooked and served.

Meanwhile I have 3 cabinets of seasonings and I swear my steaks come out blah.  

Ive seared, reversed seared, 80,000 btu seared, smoked, rotisseried, slow cooked torched.  Just cant seem to find it.

Any real tips or shared experiences.  My steaks look incredible just missing something.  I have fine finish salts, Himalayan salt, sea salt, salt scrub and good old fashioned sand.  Nadda.

Chime in please

You know how (at least for me) when you are camping and cooking on that crappy grate over the fire pit or the vandal-proof grill on the pipe in the ground...food tastes incredible.  There's a situational bias that kicks in for some people that make food away from home taste better/more memorable.  Maybe this is a survival mechanism...we were originally nomadic hunter/gatherers for most of our species existence.  Camping, eating out at restaurants, it's maybe more memorable because we're going back to those archaic roots. 

If that's the case, you just can't win.

Or maybe I'm just making this all up.

You can't beat cooking over a camp fire grill and eating hot off the press. Amazing times.

SonVolt

Situational bias is why I love percolated coffee. 

GregW

The strange thing about steaks is a good cook and take a ordinary cut and make it taste good. I have had steaks at small local restaurants that serve a lower priced ribeye specials and have been pleasantly surprised with how good the flavor was. These were 1/2 thick steaks. As mentioned by others, I think a heavy application of msg and garlic/pepper is likely the cause of the good flavor.

SonVolt

Yeah, personally I don't think higher end beef has as much to do with it as some people think. It's all in the preparation, cooking method and technique IMO. Higher end places have the 1,800F broilers which are hard to replicate. Lower end places like Outback/Longhorn use regular gas grills but probably have seasoning blends that contains beef bouillon powder for the MSG kick. Just depends on which style you've got in your head that you're trying to replicate.  

PigBeanUs

The higher end places use aged beef as a rule. 

And your charcoal lump is as hot as their 1800 degree burners.

done temp of 700° when cooking steaks doesn’t mean you are cooking steaks at 700°

SonVolt

1800F from the top produces wildly different results than from the bottom so they really aren't comparable. You're never going to replicate a broiler on an grill. 

jdMyers

Thanks for the input.  I have a modified gas grill with an inferred 1900 degree sear, and a separate 80,000 btu sear burner.  Only works when all the other burners are off.  Tried to sear and then move to bge.  Learning alot thats for sure.

PigBeanUs

SonVolt said:

1800F from the top produces wildly different results than from the bottom so they really aren't comparable. You're never going to replicate a broiler on an grill. 

Direct radiant heat is direct radiant heat, regardless of the direction. 

All that matters is how hot the source is, and the distance. 

1800 from above, below, sides, etc gives the same radiant energy, as long as the distance is the same. 

Charcoal can get to 1800 or above, depending on air flow. 

Regardless. 

It is not possible for the radiant energy to impart some magic other flavor when it comes from a broiler than from charcoal.   

The meat used is the biggest factor

nolaegghead

(edited) Grilling -- fat and juices drip into the fire, add flavor (could be good or bad), possibly add more heat as fat is fuel, possibly add condensates from the burning fat, depending on how much fat is running from the meat to the fire.  The fat/juices are unrecoverable, consumed or contaminated in a grease trap.

Broiling - fat and juices roll off meat away from fire into broiling pan.  Those are recoverable for use if desired (sauce, gravy).  You can get some flare ups if the meat is too close to the broiler element, but generally there's less influence from fats and juice burning.

Heat is heat. Lots of complex flavors are created in a sear.

Some steak restaurants broil the sear because it's fast and neutral.  Hard to get that nasty burned fat taste.  Rarely do you get a raging grease fire from a broiler.

nolaegghead

in a production kitchen, not having to clean the grill grates or ManGrates(tm) because they're filthy or you just cooked fish on them, or pork before a kosher meal is faster.  Fast is good.

SonVolt

PigBeanUs said:

SonVolt said:

1800F from the top produces wildly different results than from the bottom so they really aren't comparable. You're never going to replicate a broiler on an grill. 

Direct radiant heat is direct radiant heat, regardless of the direction. 

All that matters is how hot the source is, and the distance. 

1800 from above, below, sides, etc gives the same radiant energy, as long as the distance is the same. 

Charcoal can get to 1800 or above, depending on air flow. 

Regardless. 

It is not possible for the radiant energy to impart some magic other flavor when it comes from a broiler than from charcoal.   

The meat used is the biggest factor

That all may be true in theory, but broilers and grills produce wildly different results. 

gamason

Biggest taste factor on beef is...SALT!! most people are afraid to add salt, but it is the secret of great chefs everywhere!!

SonVolt

To add to that, pre-salting makes a huge difference. 

poster

Sandwiches are always better when someone else makes them too.
Maybe expectations are part of the problem.

fishlessman

SonVolt said:

1800F from the top produces wildly different results than from the bottom so they really aren't comparable. You're never going to replicate a broiler on an grill. 

you can replicate a broiler on the egg, i have, but its really scary to balance a blue flame over the food in the dome then open it at 1200 degree dome temps

SonVolt

fishlessman said:

SonVolt said:

1800F from the top produces wildly different results than from the bottom so they really aren't comparable. You're never going to replicate a broiler on an grill. 

you can replicate a broiler on the egg, i have, but its really scary to balance a blue flame over the food in the dome then open it at 1200 degree dome temps

There's an old Alton Brown technique where he broils a steak under a chimney starter that works really, really well. He lights a half stack of lump, then sets the chimney on top of the steak. That is, the steak is sitting under the coals in the space where the newspaper normally goes. I can 100% nail the high-end broiled steakhouse flavor with this. It's a little fussy and you can only cook 1 steak but it works.

These days you've got home broilers like the Otto Wilde available which makes it a lot easier. 

Mark_B_Good

gamason said:

Biggest taste factor on beef is...SALT!! most people are afraid to add salt, but it is the secret of great chefs everywhere!!

And butter!  Why is no one talking about butter ... okay, salted butter ...??

PigBeanUs

fishlessman said:

SonVolt said:

1800F from the top produces wildly different results than from the bottom so they really aren't comparable. You're never going to replicate a broiler on an grill. 

you can replicate a broiler on the egg, i have, but its really scary to balance a blue flame over the food in the dome then open it at 1200 degree dome temps

Cooking on an open egg, over a bed of coals, makes dome temp irrelevant

in fact, if your dome temp reads 1200, your fire is WAAAAAY over 1200

the sun burns at millions of °F   

It is broiling us, not roasting or baking us. 

Broiling (above or below) is like the sun: direct radiant heat, air temp doesn’t enter into it (unless you close the dome)

it is entirely true that cooking on the egg or under a broiler produces different flavors. 

As Carey said, it’s due entirely to other factors than the heat source itself. 

Smoke, drippings etc. yep. Gotcha. 

But the heat source being above or below, doesn’t affect the energy hitting the surface of the meat

basic concept everyone seems to get wrong:

dome temp reads 250? You have a fire burning at better than a thousand degrees. And you are cooking with the air that fire warms to 250

Dome temp reads 750, and you have steaks on the grid with the dome closed? Well, your fire is again, more than 1000 degrees. If you have great airflow, could be as high as 1200, 1600, 1800 direct. It’s also a big enough fire to heat the air inside to 750. That cooks the top of the steak (roasting it vs grilling)

if your dome is open though, you get nothing but the direct heat of the lump (1000+, especially depending on distance to the lump) and zero cooking (roasting) from the air 

if you want a great grilling fire, light the fire on top, dome open, lower vent shut. Fire will spread on top instead of diving down, and that bed of coals gets ridiculously hot. 

PigBeanUs

SonVolt said:

fishlessman said:

SonVolt said:

1800F from the top produces wildly different results than from the bottom so they really aren't comparable. You're never going to replicate a broiler on an grill. 

you can replicate a broiler on the egg, i have, but its really scary to balance a blue flame over the food in the dome then open it at 1200 degree dome temps

There's an old Alton Brown technique where he broils a steak under a chimney starter that works really, really well. He lights a half stack of lump, then sets the chimney on top of the steak. That is, the steak is sitting under the coals in the space where the newspaper normally goes. I can 100% nail the high-end broiled steakhouse flavor with this. It's a little fussy and you can only cook 1 steak but it works.

These days you've got home broilers like the Otto Wilde available which makes it a lot easier. 

Now explain how those same coal under the steak heat it differently and totally change the flavor. 

If you are talking about drippings and smoke, that’s a separate conversation. 

fishlessman

PigBeanUs said:

fishlessman said:

SonVolt said:

1800F from the top produces wildly different results than from the bottom so they really aren't comparable. You're never going to replicate a broiler on an grill. 

you can replicate a broiler on the egg, i have, but its really scary to balance a blue flame over the food in the dome then open it at 1200 degree dome temps

Cooking on an open egg, over a bed of coals, makes dome temp irrelevant

in fact, if your dome temp reads 1200, your fire is WAAAAAY over 1200

the sun burns at millions of °F   

It is broiling us, not roasting or baking us. 

Broiling (above or below) is like the sun: direct radiant heat, air temp doesn’t enter into it (unless you close the dome)

it is entirely true that cooking on the egg or under a broiler produces different flavors. 

As Carey said, it’s due entirely to other factors than the heat source itself. 

Smoke, drippings etc. yep. Gotcha. 

But the heat source being above or below, doesn’t affect the energy hitting the surface of the meat

basic concept everyone seems to get wrong:

dome temp reads 250? You have a fire burning at better than a thousand degrees. And you are cooking with the air that fire warms to 250

Dome temp reads 750, and you have steaks on the grid with the dome closed? Well, your fire is again, more than 1000 degrees. If you have great airflow, could be as high as 1200, 1600, 1800 direct. It’s also a big enough fire to heat the air inside to 750. That cooks the top of the steak (roasting it vs grilling)

if your dome is open though, you get nothing but the direct heat of the lump (1000+, especially depending on distance to the lump) and zero cooking (roasting) from the air 

if you want a great grilling fire, light the fire on top, dome open, lower vent shut. Fire will spread on top instead of diving down, and that bed of coals gets ridiculously hot. 

dont disagree at all, was just pointing out that you can create the broiler flame above a steak in an egg, ridiculous to do but can easily be done. i just stick with the trex method with an insane amount of salt just before the sear, i believe most home cooks fear the salt and hold back with certain cooks

PUT SOME SALT ON THE DAMN THING and sear away

SonVolt

PigBeanUs said:

Now explain how those same coal under the steak heat it differently and totally change the flavor. 

That's quite a strawman you've built for yourself.  I find your diatribe on heat radiation fascinating, but it literally has nothing to do with anything I've said in this thread.  But please, continue on... 

lousubcap

As @PigBeanUs - wrote "if you want a great grilling fire, light the fire on top, dome open, lower vent shut. Fire will spread on top instead of diving down, and that bed of coals gets ridiculously hot. "
That is how I run the BGE when cooking steak.  Depending on thickness I will just use the caveman method or pull the ring and cook on a grate just above the coals.  Either way, you do need long tongs to handle the protein.  FWIW-

OntarioDave

I've had good flavour by using the Keg steak spice (Not sure if they're in the US). I've also used Clubhouse, steak spice.

They are both coarse for my liking so I run the spice through a coffee grinder first and then I liberally rub both sides of the steak and let the steaks sit in the fridge 3 hours or so prior to grilling. Seems to work for me

QDude

 I have also heard that bringing a steak to near room temp prior to putting it on helps.  I don't know why though.

jtcBoynton

lousubcap said:

As @PigBeanUs - wrote "if you want a great grilling fire, light the fire on top, dome open, lower vent shut. Fire will spread on top instead of diving down, and that bed of coals gets ridiculously hot. "
That is how I run the BGE when cooking steak.  Depending on thickness I will just use the caveman method or pull the ring and cook on a grate just above the coals.  Either way, you do need long tongs to handle the protein.  FWIW-

nolaegghead

lousubcap said:

As @PigBeanUs - wrote "if you want a great grilling fire, light the fire on top, dome open, lower vent shut. Fire will spread on top instead of diving down, and that bed of coals gets ridiculously hot. "
That is how I run the BGE when cooking steak.  Depending on thickness I will just use the caveman method or pull the ring and cook on a grate just above the coals.  Either way, you do need long tongs to handle the protein.  FWIW-

Exactly what I do for grilling.