Audio Expierence .....PrimaLuna tube amplification....

northGAcock

Considering purchasing one, interested if any of you out there have expierence with them. Looking at the 100 level myself, but interested to learn how any of their line has performed for you are those you know. 

#analoguerocks

thetrim

Something called PrimaLuna Tue sounds like something @nolaegghead would have experience with.

dbCooper

No direct experience with PrimaLuna.

You might give some consideration to hybrid amps, tubes on front end and solid state on the output stages.  Odds are you'll happy with the "tube sound" they deliver and less upfront costs.  Also consider tubes need replaced over time, those used in the output stages can get pricy.

Ozzie_Isaac

This is a deep dark rabbit hole you are headed down.  Hope you have eyes wide open.  A good friend of mine has over $100k invested in his main stereo setup, and he is still chasing improvements.  

I recommend checking out www.avsforum.com , great group of folks with amazing knowledge and experience.

GrateEggspectations

You have peaked my interest, as I’ve never heard of this company. Further research required. 🙂 Further to @Ozzie_Isaac’s comments, the pursuit of perfect audio is not for the faint of heart; nor for the empty of wallet. 

My only experience with tube amps is my (relatively) modest collection of guitar amplifiers. Most are currently in road cases because of a recent move, but here are a couple that are currently accessible. 

The Marshall is not a reissue, but a pristine ‘73 PA 20 that was gifted to me by a friend’s father - along with an equally-minty ‘72 Orange - about two decades ago. Great, great amps, and I think of him every time they are powered up. 

WeberWho

One of the few positives of having crappy hearing!

blind99

jesus.  i started watching the video on the evo100 page.  i thought that guy was going to tell me "but wait! there's more!" and try to sell me an extra chamois.

you should buy it

Ozzie_Isaac

blind99 said:

jesus.  i started watching the video on the evo100 page.  i thought that guy was going to tell me "but wait! there's more!" and try to sell me an extra chamois.

you should buy it

Haha!  I just had to go find it.  You are spot on, that is total 90s late night infomercial right there.  That guy has it dialed in.

https://youtu.be/ygqGCpS5zCI

Botch

I may get slammed here, but my opinion FWIW.
 
Tube amplification is fantastic to warm up/modify the tone of most instruments (guitars/harps/vocals/Hammond/bass/even drums), but once the recording is made, additional tube amplification/"warmth" is additional distortion from the original recording.  
 
I'm gonna assume the final recording is what the artist/producer/engineer wanted you to hear.  Additional "warming/distortion" in your playback system may be pleasing to your ears, and there's not a thing wrong with that.  But its not the route I've taken.  

My audio system is as clean/direct as I could find; my stage amplification system from years ago (when I played in clubs) had tube amplification for my fiddle, harp, and Hammond organ simulator.  
 
FWIW.     

cdnewman

northGAcock said:

Considering purchasing one, interested if any of you out there have expierence with them. Looking at the 100 level myself, but interested to learn how any of their line has performed for you are those you know. 

#analoguerocks

So without knowing your existing system, your preferred music, your sources, etc. very hard to answer. I listen to mostly classical music. I have a rega planar 25 turntable with a Hana mc cartridge feeding a Cambridge audio 640 phono pre amp. My speakers are rega rs5s. I listened to the evo 100 and 200 as possible replacements for my creek 5350 integrated amp. They were lovely. But I listened to a jolida integrates that was about 1/3 the price and ended up purchasing the jolida. I didn’t find the slightly more extended and silky treble to be worth the significant increase in cost. That being said, I do 75% of my listening through a Schitt tube headphone amp and a pair of hifiman planar headphones and the rega speakers are very efficient. If I listened mostly through speakers and had less efficient speakers or a large room, the evo 200 was better at volume than any tube integrated I’ve heard for less than 5k. 

GrateEggspectations

Botch said:

I may get slammed here, but my opinion FWIW.
 
Tube amplification is fantastic to warm up/modify the tone of most instruments (guitars/harps/vocals/Hammond/bass/even drums), but once the recording is made, additional tube amplification/"warmth" is additional distortion from the original recording.  
 
I'm gonna assume the final recording is what the artist/producer/engineer wanted you to hear.  Additional "warming/distortion" in your playback system may be pleasing to your ears, and there's not a thing wrong with that.  But its not the route I've taken.  

My audio system is as clean/direct as I could find; my stage amplification system from years ago (when I played in clubs) had tube amplification for my fiddle, harp, and Hammond organ simulator.  
 
FWIW.     

I think this is a valid point. 

And in the instrument world, at least, the major benefit of tubes over solid state is the natural breakup that is achieved when the tubes are driven hard (i.e., “overdrive”).

northGAcock

dbCooper said:

No direct experience with PrimaLuna.

You might give some consideration to hybrid amps, tubes on front end and solid state on the output stages.  Odds are you'll happy with the "tube sound" they deliver and less upfront costs.  Also consider tubes need replaced over time, those used in the output stages can get pricy.

Thanks. The PrimaLuma is marketed as an heirloom amp. I am rich in many ways, but not heavy in the pocketbook. On the other hand, I look forward to many listening hours as I approach retirement (unknown at this point). That said, I do have some audio folk in the fam that will treasure the purchase long after I am gone. You have given me much to think about. Thanks. 

northGAcock

Ozzie_Isaac said:

This is a deep dark rabbit hole you are headed down.  Hope you have eyes wide open.  A good friend of mine has over $100k invested in his main stereo setup, and he is still chasing improvements.  

I recommend checking out www.avsforum.com , great group of folks with amazing knowledge and experience.

I appreciate the recommendation. I am not chasing the biggest d!ck system out there, but do plan to invest in a sound that will carry me into hopefully many more years of listening. I have the surround listening for TV and general use......looking for some quality listening for the black light room. Off to avsforum. 

northGAcock

GrateEggspectations said:

You have peaked my interest, as I’ve never heard of this company. Further research required. 🙂 Further to @Ozzie_Isaac’s comments, the pursuit of perfect audio is not for the faint of heart; nor for the empty of wallet. 

My only experience with tube amps is my (relatively) modest collection of guitar amplifiers. Most are currently in road cases because of a recent move, but here are a couple that are currently accessible. 

The Marshall is not a reissue, but a pristine ‘73 PA 20 that was gifted to me by a friend’s father - along with an equally-minty ‘72 Orange - about two decades ago. Great, great amps, and I think of him every time they are powered up. 

Thanks for the input. Gonna put you down for tin the yes column based on your response. Cool equipment.....cherish the gift.

northGAcock

blind99 said:

jesus.  i started watching the video on the evo100 page.  i thought that guy was going to tell me "but wait! there's more!" and try to sell me an extra chamois.

you should buy it

Right there with ya. The guy I am working with in store is a bit more palatable. Thanks for helping me spend my money. 

northGAcock

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Passionate 

northGAcock

Botch said:

I may get slammed here, but my opinion FWIW.
 
Tube amplification is fantastic to warm up/modify the tone of most instruments (guitars/harps/vocals/Hammond/bass/even drums), but once the recording is made, additional tube amplification/"warmth" is additional distortion from the original recording.  
 
I'm gonna assume the final recording is what the artist/producer/engineer wanted you to hear.  Additional "warming/distortion" in your playback system may be pleasing to your ears, and there's not a thing wrong with that.  But its not the route I've taken.  

My audio system is as clean/direct as I could find; my stage amplification system from years ago (when I played in clubs) had tube amplification for my fiddle, harp, and Hammond organ simulator.  
 
FWIW.     

No slamming here. Appreciate the counter argument. In fact it is what I was looking for. What have you invested in on the listening front? Note, I need two inputs (Reel to Reel & Phono).....both analogue, and that is where it will stay. No USB ports, no Bluetooth, no digital inputs. 

Tell me more. 

northGAcock

cdnewman said:

northGAcock said:

Considering purchasing one, interested if any of you out there have expierence with them. Looking at the 100 level myself, but interested to learn how any of their line has performed for you are those you know. 

#analoguerocks

So without knowing your existing system, your preferred music, your sources, etc. very hard to answer. I listen to mostly classical music. I have a rega planar 25 turntable with a Hana mc cartridge feeding a Cambridge audio 640 phono pre amp. My speakers are rega rs5s. I listened to the evo 100 and 200 as possible replacements for my creek 5350 integrated amp. They were lovely. But I listened to a jolida integrates that was about 1/3 the price and ended up purchasing the jolida. I didn’t find the slightly more extended and silky treble to be worth the significant increase in cost. That being said, I do 75% of my listening through a Schitt tube headphone amp and a pair of hifiman planar headphones and the rega speakers are very efficient. If I listened mostly through speakers and had less efficient speakers or a large room, the evo 200 was better at volume than any tube integrated I’ve heard for less than 5k. 

You bring up interesting points that resonate with my short and long term needs. I am in a temporary living situation (apartment) with a storage room (quite large) in the complex. That said, headphones might be the better solution for the next year while we search out our retirement destination and hopefully long listening location. One thing the PrimaLuna had was headphone amplification. This is an area I need to explore further. Any further insight into this would be appreciated. 

GabeD

I don't have experience with the PrimaLuna but do have a tube based system.

In my office I'm running a Fisher 800C receiver from 1964. I fully restored it about 10 years ago by re building the power supply and changing out the tired electrolytic capacitors. With 22 tubes it eats 200 watts just sitting there idling. It uses 7591 output tubes in push pull for 33wpc, so similar in power to the 100 you are looking at. It also has a headphone jack that is driven straight from the output tubes so you can have the full power pumping into your skull.

I use it primarily to spin vinyl from my Rega RP1 turntable. It feeds a set of ESS Tempest LS-8 speakers with Heil AMT tweeters. It is pretty neat being able to spin something from the 70's and know that it is completely analog throughout the entire chain. Steeyl Dan's Aja is a prime example.

To me, it sounds absolutely incredible. The 33 watts is plenty to drive the ESS to a loud listening level if desired. If I really want to crank it I have my main system to turn to with a Carver M-400t. This is more so for critical listening. The detail and openness is incredible and it is so clean idling. Absolutely dead silent.

I think the comments about coloring the sound depend on the equipment being used and the combination of the amp and speakers. I'm really happy with the Fisher/ESS combination and have had good results with JBL L80t's as well. A pair of Original Large Advents, while sounding good, fell a little flat. It could be West Coast vs East Coast sound though. I have gravitated toward the West Coast sound I suppose.

It just depends on what your goals are. And yes, it is a very deep rabbit hole.

northGAcock

GabeD said:

I don't have experience with the PrimaLuna but do have a tube based system.

In my office I'm running a Fisher 800C receiver from 1964. I fully restored it about 10 years ago by re building the power supply and changing out the tired electrolytic capacitors. With 22 tubes it eats 200 watts just sitting there idling. It uses 7591 output tubes in push pull for 33wpc, so similar in power to the 100 you are looking at. It also has a headphone jack that is driven straight from the output tubes so you can have the full power pumping into your skull.

I use it primarily to spin vinyl from my Rega RP1 turntable. It feeds a set of ESS Tempest LS-8 speakers with Heil AMT tweeters.

To me, it sounds absolutely incredible. The 33 watts is plenty to drive the ESS to a loud listening level if desired. If I really want to crank it I have my main system to turn to with a Carver M-400t. This is more so for critical listening. The detail and openness is incredible and it is so clean idling. Absolutely dead silent.

I think the comments about coloring the sound depend on the equipment being used and the combination of the amp and speakers. I'm really happy with the Fisher/ESS combination and have had good results with JBL L80t's as well.

It just depends on what your goals are. And yes, it is a very deep rabbit hole.

Good read....and greatly appreciate the information. 

nolaegghead

Unless you set up in an anechoic chamber, every normal room colors the sound.  I would say your room, speakers and their relative positions makes more difference than your amps.

That said, check out Emotiva.  They run class A until they need the power and switch to AB.

nolaegghead

Maybe they are not all class A capable.

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps

blind99

looking forward to seeing what you assemble.  it's fun to take music you like and audition different stuff.  i had CDs of music to listen to speakers with.  the song that really did it for me was Anonymous Skulls by Medeski Martin and Wood.  On the right pair of speakers that song just sounds incredible.  (and the speakers i bought were a used pair of klipsch floor standing speakers, for a couple hundred bucks... not audiophile fancy by any means.... but they still sound awesome to my lousy ears!)

caliking

From what caliqueen keeps telling me about my hearing, I'm going to pass on going down this rabbithole. 

Life is too short to not take pleasure in the things that give one pleasure. 

GrateEggspectations

northGAcock said:

GrateEggspectations said:

You have peaked my interest, as I’ve never heard of this company. Further research required. 🙂 Further to @Ozzie_Isaac’s comments, the pursuit of perfect audio is not for the faint of heart; nor for the empty of wallet. 

My only experience with tube amps is my (relatively) modest collection of guitar amplifiers. Most are currently in road cases because of a recent move, but here are a couple that are currently accessible. 

The Marshall is not a reissue, but a pristine ‘73 PA 20 that was gifted to me by a friend’s father - along with an equally-minty ‘72 Orange - about two decades ago. Great, great amps, and I think of him every time they are powered up. 

Thanks for the input. Gonna put you down for tin the yes column based on your response. Cool equipment.....cherish the gift.

Thanks. Believe it or not, as a foolish young man, I actually sold the Marshall on consignment at a music shop, regretted it, and then, in a city of about 1M, a few years later, just happened to stumble across it in the for sale ads posted in the classifieds - for sale by the person who had bought in on consignment. Picked it up for about what I had sold it for in equally decent shape, and she and I will never part ways again. 🙂 

SonVolt

I got quite a few 6L6, EL34 and 12AX7's laying around...

GrateEggspectations

SonVolt said:

I got quite a few 6L6, EL34 and 12AX7's laying around...

Nice. Your house looks like mine. Which one is your fave?

I used to have a whole loft for my equipment, but we recently moved and my gear is soon to be confined to a small room, just waiting to break out. Good thing for guitar wall mounts!

Botch

GabeD said:
...I use it primarily to spin vinyl from my Rega RP1 turntable. It feeds a set of ESS Tempest LS-8 speakers with Heil AMT tweeters. It is pretty neat being able to spin something from the 70's and know that it is completely analog throughout the entire chain. Steely Dan's Aja is a prime example. 

To me, it sounds absolutely incredible. The 33 watts is plenty to drive the ESS to a loud listening level if desired. If I really want to crank it I have my main system to turn to with a Carver M-400t...

I think the comments about coloring the sound depend on the equipment being used and the combination of the amp and speakers. I'm really happy with the Fisher/ESS combination and have had good results with JBL L80t's as well. A pair of Original Large Advents, while sounding good, fell a little flat...

@GabeD, this is your first post that I've seen; first of all, Welcome!  
 
Even though I'm the guy who stated that tubes colors the sound, I like everything else in your post!  Aja is, IMNSHO, the greatest record ever made; I only hope that Steve Wilson is allowed to do a 5.1 remix of it before I die; it's the last thing on my bucket list.  
 
My home studio runs on a Carver amp.  I used another one in my stage rig, based on their light weight (keyboard rigs are a **** to haul, especially at my age).  
 
Finally, my original system had the "New Advents", incredible speakers that I bought in '79 and still have.  When I went to a Surround system in 2010, I had to go another brand, as Advent was gone; went with Monitor Audio Silvers.  I A/B'd the stereo pair with my old Advents (and also my Tannoy "Reveal" studio monitors) and was surprised at how similar they sounded; I can easily hear differences between different speaker brands, in the salon, no problem. 
 
Can I hear the difference between a solid-state amp and a tube amp?  I don't know, I haven't had the opportunity to A/B them in controlled conditions.  I do know that good solid-states have better transient response, S/N ratios, and dynamic range, and that's provable on measuring equipment.  As I said in my first post, people may prefer the warmer sound of tubes, and there's nothing wrong with that.  
Yours consumes 200 watts at idle???  Wow, at least your furnace bill is low!  
 
Enjoying this discussion, Gabe; take care!  
 

SonVolt

GrateEggspectations said:

SonVolt said:

I got quite a few 6L6, EL34 and 12AX7's laying around...

Nice. Your house looks like mine. Which one is your fave?

I used to have a whole loft for my equipment, but we recently moved and my gear is soon to be confined to a small room, just waiting to break out. Good thing for guitar wall mounts!

That’s a theater/music room so the paint and trim is quite different than the rest of the house.  As far as amps, it’s like choosing your babies. The Mesas rule for metal and clean tones, the Marshall for blues, rock and everything in between. Hard to pick a favorite. That Mesa Mark IV on the far right is what Hetfield used to record Metallica’s Black album so it may get a slight edge over the others. Super brutal yet tight. 

2HB

I have a buddy who owns a Prologue Dialogue Premium HP. He plays it through a pair of Revel loudspeakers and uses a decked out LP12 almost exclusively as his source, and I forget what kind of headphones he uses. He absolutely loves it. I have heard it a couple of times, and it is an outstanding integrated amplifier. My buddy used Linn amplification before the Prologue, and it is definitely a step up from his (older) Linn pre/amp. I did not notice any of the typical complaints about tubed amplification (bloated, muffled bass, or overly sweet highs). We listened mostly to classical music, and the Prologue creates a beautiful image with a very wide and deep soundstage. One typical comment about tubes is true with this amp - you often hear the term 'palpable presence' to describe the image created by good tubes, and the Prologue does this. Also, the auto-bias feature is pretty handy (I don't know if most tube amps have this feature nowadays); my buddy has begun to explore the differences between different makes and genres of tubes, and is really enjoying the way he can tailor the sound of his system with them. Finally the Prologue inspired him to invest in a decent pair of headphones. If you think you are interested in a Prologue, you probably can't go wrong with one. I am a die-hard solid-state fan (after trying to get into tubes with a hybrid amp a decade ago), and his Prologue made me think that I need to get one.

GabeD

Botch said:

@GabeD, this is your first post that I've seen; first of all, Welcome!  

Thanks! I'm still new here. I got my BGE last June and found this community pretty soon after. Lots of very interesting subjects and people here!

Botch said:

Even though I'm the guy who stated that tubes colors the sound, I like everything else in your post!

As I said in my first post, people may prefer the warmer sound of tubes, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Yours consumes 200 watts at idle???

I agree completely with how tubes perform and distort and can have a specific sound. Especially when they get to the clipping point and can do so gracefully and even intentionally as in a guitar amp. Finding the right equipment and room to complement the system as a whole can really make things sound great. I hesitate to use the word, but, if the synergy can be found magic can happen.

Yes, the Fisher 800C is an AM/FM receiver with 22 tubes. It came out at the peak of tube technology just before the transition to the transistor era. The B+ is close to 500 volts and things get pretty toasty with the 7591 output tubes glowing along happily.

Botch said:

Aja is, IMNSHO, the greatest record ever made

I'll second that. Steely Dan is my favorite band, period. If I was trapped on a desert island with their discography I'd be a happy man. Too bad we lost Walter Becker a couple of years ago. I never did get to see them live.

Botch said:

My home studio runs on a Carver amp.

My dad was a speaker nut. He passed the gene along to me for sure. His collection was deep and wide with 100 pair stashed away at one point. He used the Carver a lot. When I ended up with the remainder of his collection one of the first things I did was to restore the Carver to like new condition. I primarily use it with a set of ESS AMT1 Towers that I restored as well. I have dreams of finding and fixing another one at some point and use them as monoblocs. I'd be able to push the big ESS at over 500wpc at that point. I also want to some day incorporate a PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell into that system. I'll get there some day.

Botch said:

my original system had the "New Advents", incredible speakers that I bought in '79 and still have. I A/B'd the stereo pair with my old Advents (and also my Tannoy "Reveal" studio monitors) and was surprised at how similar they sounded

I have Tannoys too! They are a pair of Tannoy Lynx and I restored those as well. I'd describe the Tannoys as a "revealing" speaker. They are so clear and coherent and I think the single source point sound of a dual concentric driver is a lot of that.

Dad had stacked Advents back in the late 70's. The Advents I have needed a lot of love but I was happy to fix them. Every little boy needs a pair of Advents! They are ubiquitous to that era. I think they sound great and fully understand why people love them. As I posted earlier I must be biased toward the West Coast sound though as the Advents sound laid back to me. Not bad by any means, just not as up front as what I am used to. The bottom end that Henry Kloss was able to achieve with the acoustic suspension design is fantastic.

Botch said:

Enjoying this discussion, Gabe; take care!

As am I! You as well!