Pizza help

Moleman

Hello, 
 trying to get some help with pizza. Deep dish I pretty much have down to a science based on posts here. Looking at everyone’s Neapolitan style made me purchase an ooni 16 the first week they were released. I have not had much luck so I will ask for help. I have the Jim Lacey book but not the Ken Forkish book that I’ve seen spoken highly of. I use the dough recipe on the ooni website. Because I’m doing the cold fermentation I only use 1 gram of red star instant yeast. Even tracked down some of the Caputo Tipo “00” red bag flour that I had seen someone used with great results. I use a small gram scale for my salt and yeast. And a larger gram scale for my water and flour. I heat one third of the water as the directions say to do. I use a Bosch universal mixer for 7 minutes and then cold proof for 48 hours. I don’t get the size nor the crisp crust except for the burnt edge on the outside. That appears to literally catch on fire. I’m rotating the pizza maybe every 20 seconds or so. I’ve attempted this 5-6 separate occasions with different 00 flour and always the same results. I only use flour, salt, water, and the instant yeast. After the initial pizza burns I turn down the flame  It pretty much get the same results. Any help would be much appreciated. I’m attempting to attach some pictures if I can get it to work. I’ve learned so much over the past ten years from all of you here and am grateful as well as my family and friends. Thank you. 

ChrisgrillsSTLMO

Greetings-
Gotta be honest, I would happily eat any of those. I don't have an ooni so I can't speak to what best practice is with one of those, what are you hoping your result would be?

1voyager

What is the weight of each ingredient?

TEXASBGE2018

My guess is that your dough is too high in hydration. Which explains why it’s not crispy. Also mixing for 7 straight minutes in a mixer could be over mixing your dough which could mess with the gluten structure. I usually only mix for 1-2 minutes total by hand. Try cutting your hydration level down to say 60% and try mixing with your hands, I mean literally your fingers. Just until everything is incorporated. Let it rest for 20min, then on a lightly floured surface knead the dough for another minute or so, put back in the mixing bowl and cover on the counter for 2 hours or so. Once that’s done you can shape your dough and THEN put it covered overnight in the fridge. Also make sure that you take the crust out about 60-90min before you put it on. The temperature of your crust could also be causing the issue. Cold crust on a hot stone will cause the edges which are generally not sauced or cheese to burn easier as there is no moisture helping them while the sauced and cheesed area will remain underdone due to excess moisture. It also causes the dough to shrink.

ColtsFan

I know on my Ardore, I have to let it pre-heat for a solid 40 minutes to get the Saputo Bicotto floor up to temp. I then have to dial the heat back when I launch pies otherwise, I end up with pizza like that. Burnt top with soggy crust.

Also @TEXASBGE2018 brings up a good point on your hydro %.

Moleman

1¼ cups (300ml) cold water
2 tsp (10g) salt
7g fresh yeast (if unavailable, use ½ tsp (3g) active dried yeast or ⅓ tsp (2g) instant dried yeast)
4 cups (500g) “00” flour, plus extra for dusting
Once combined, leave the dough to keep mixing to at the same speed for 5-10 minutes, or until the dough is firm and stretchy. 
That's from the website. I only use 1 gram of yeast as it says to if doing cold fermentation. When I take it out of the refrigerator I allow it to come to room temp prior to using. I'll try using my hands next time. 
Chris thanks for the kind words, I don't want the crust to catch on fire, want the bottom firm not soft. I have the leopard spotting but still very soft and supple. Excuse the bold, not sure what happened and don't know how to change it. I appreciate all the quick feedback. 

TEXASBGE2018

Thats odd, your percentages look good. Something else I notice as well is it appears you are using fresh mozzarella. When I 1st started I used that exclusively and always ended up with pies with no crust structure. Just a floppy mess in the middle with burnt edges. Once I switched to mostly low Moisture fresh grated mozzarella I saw better results. I will still use fresh mozzarella on occasion for flavor profile and texture but I clump it in about dime size pieces.

TEXASBGE2018

Are you using the egg to bake? Colts and I have a similar oven with Saputo floors. When I use the Saputo floor I always get more Neapolitan Style crust with leopard spotting but not crispy. When I want a crispy crust I throw in my cordierite stones

Moleman

I am using a combination of fresh and low moisture but mainly fresh. Your observation is correct. I am using the ooni 16 to cook. appears to be just a pizza stone/cordierite. I will try hand mixing, switch the cheese ratio as you mentioned, and heating up the oven and then turning down the flame some as I put the first pizza in. 

TN_Egger

I'm about 3 months into my Ooni adventure and had similar experience.  @ColtsFan's advice is spot on.  Let it run for a good long while, about 30 minutes, and then turn down the flame.  Gotta heat up the stone properly for the crispiness and turn down the flame so you don't burn the toppings.

Moleman

I'm going to give that a try. I thank all for the quick advice. This place is a wealth of information from cooking, mosquito control, flooring, air conditioning, etc. It never ceases to amaze me. Thanks to all. I'll follow up here in the next week or two with my next results. 

Photo Egg

Moleman said:

1¼ cups (300ml) cold water
2 tsp (10g) salt
7g fresh yeast (if unavailable, use ½ tsp (3g) active dried yeast or ⅓ tsp (2g) instant dried yeast)
4 cups (500g) “00” flour, plus extra for dusting
Once combined, leave the dough to keep mixing to at the same speed for 5-10 minutes, or until the dough is firm and stretchy. 
That's from the website. I only use 1 gram of yeast as it says to if doing cold fermentation. When I take it out of the refrigerator I allow it to come to room temp prior to using. I'll try using my hands next time. 
Chris thanks for the kind words, I don't want the crust to catch on fire, want the bottom firm not soft. I have the leopard spotting but still very soft and supple. Excuse the bold, not sure what happened and don't know how to change it. I appreciate all the quick feedback. 

I use the same and do the cold ferment with my Ooni 16.
If you don’t already own one, buy an infrared thermometer. It’s good to know your stone temp. I preheat on high and turn down to low just before I launch the pie. Turn back to high if I’m doing a second and so on. I’m not getting a crispy crust but I’m dividing the above into 3 dough balls, not 5, so I’m not making a real small pie. 

The red bag that you are using is not specified as high heat flour by manufacturer. They do make a higher heat flour that is blue bag but I have yet to find it.
You will find your groove. These cook so fast that even a small error will be magnified. Even with the L shaped burner it takes a little moving around. But the more you move it around the less the bottom cooks. Have to find the happy medium.
Good luck.

Moleman

Photo Egg, thanks for the response. I do believe they had the blue bag when I purchased the red. I went with the red because in a different post someone had shown a bag of that with good results so I figured I'd give it a try. I will do as you said about the flame and such. I also only make the 3 doughs. That's the reason I never bought the roccbox, I wanted bigger pies. Thanks. 

Photo Egg

Moleman said:

Photo Egg, thanks for the response. I do believe they had the blue bag when I purchased the red. I went with the red because in a different post someone had shown a bag of that with good results so I figured I'd give it a try. I will do as you said about the flame and such. I also only make the 3 doughs. That's the reason I never bought the roccbox, I wanted bigger pies. Thanks. 

Having good results with red bag but it’s still a bit of a struggle with burning. From good to burnt sooooo quickly.

Moleman

I'll go back and buy the blue if in fact that they did have it. Chrisgrills that's what I'm talking about in the pic above. The edge is a little dark but much better than mine. I love the ooni as I use it to sear sous vide items, and for shrimp and such. But want pies that are better than what I'm currently making. I think with all this input it'll certainly help. Thanks. 

Photo Egg

Moleman said:

I'll go back and buy the blue if in fact that they did have it. Chrisgrills that's what I'm talking about in the pic above. The edge is a little dark but much better than mine. I love the ooni as I use it to sear sous vide items, and for shrimp and such. But want pies that are better than what I'm currently making. I think with all this input it'll certainly help. Thanks. 

Ping me on your thoughts about blue vs red bag if you find some.
 Thanks 

mtasker

i also was burning the crust.  so now i let the ooni cool down some before cooking.  haven't had a burnt crust since.  

Brason

I have an ooni 3. I cook on it weekly and have never turned down the temp or burned the crusts like that. I use the following recipe 
https://www.pizzamaking.com/lehmann-nystyle.php

I use 1,000 gr of 00 Flour and the rest of the calculations are very easy. 620 grams of water. I have used the dough the next day all the way to the 3rd day. 

I use the kitchen aid mixer and usually mix it for 8 minutes is. I follow the instructions.

Hope it helps.

Moleman

had better had better results this weekend with the help from you on here. For some reason though I had a hard time trying to get them round. When I picked up the dough from the proofing tray it would stretch and never could get them back round again. Turning the temperature down before launching the pie and then turning it back up in between certainly made for a better crust. I ordered a high temp thermometer from thermoworks which should be here this week. I appreciate all the help. 

mkevenson

Brason, nice seeing PizzaMaking .com being referenced. Was active there a few years back. WFP oven and all. Took a break, sold the oven and now back to baking pizza on the BGE.