Calling all you pizza gods....

GrateEggspectations

I’ve said it before, and I’m willing to admit it again.... Much to my embarrassment, I can’t, for the life of me, make a decent pizza on the Egg. I want to. I really do. I just don’t know how. When I read posts and follow the steps as described, I still can get poor results. I usually end up with a burned bottom and an underdone top (despite the pizza being high in the dome). 

Anyone willing to make a walkthrough tutorial to go on the ol’ YouTube? If so, my wife and children would be most appreciative (and would also be a lot less hungry). 

tridogdude

Are you making your own dough or buying it? If you're buying it, where are you buying it from?

Are you cooking with plate setter feet down?

What type of pizza stone are you using and are you elevating it at least one inch above the plate setter?

I have cooked probably 350+ pizzas on our egg and have slightly burned the bottoms on about 5 of those cooks. I can probably blame beer consumption for 99% of the 5 slightly burned ones.

Use to cook them at 700F but after experimenting, I found that 450-500F being what works best for me. Parchment paper for the first 7 minutes and then pull the paper and cook another 7 to 9 minutes.

From my experience, preheating of the stone is important. I don't put the pizza on the stone until it has been up to temp for at least 15 minutes. 

Have you had same results of burnt bottoms with different types of dough?

If you're documenting everything then you should be able to pinpoint where you're going wrong. If not, start doing so until you cook enough of them and then it'll be 2nd nature.

QDude

I gave up on doing pizza on my X -  couldn't control the temp when opening the dome and the lump would burn too hot .  Bought a Blackstone pizza oven and never looked back.  The egg is good at lots of cooks, but pizza, not so much.

JohnInCarolina

Not sure I can help you all that much given that I haven't cooked pizza on the BGE in forever, but I do think I can help you out with the dough.  My go-to dough these days is actually one that's a NY-style and designed to be cooked around 700F.  The recipe (with YouTube video) is here:

https://us.gozney.com/blogs/recipes/new-york-style-pizza

It's a bit of a pain to make in the sense that it uses three different flours: a mix of bread flour, whole wheat, and 00.  But even during this pandemic all three of those are regularly available online.   

In my experience this takes about 3 minutes to cook at 700F.  If you're cooking at lower temps (550F is much easier to manage in the BGE) it will take a couple minutes longer.  

thetrim

I was a mess at pizza until I went to a BGE pizza class at a local dealer.

What works for me now is to get the fire going around 600 and have it going for at least 30 minutes prior to putting a pizza on.  Set up is plate setter legs down with a couple pavers next and then the pizza stone.  I try to get it as high in the dome as possible.

The pis goes on the egg on a thin metal well-oiled pizza pan.  Stays on the pan until the toppings look to be about 85% cooked.  Opening and rotating every 2mins. It's usually 6-8minutes, then I remove the pizza pan and the pizza goes right on the pizza stone.  Now I'm just keeping an eye on the crust to make sure it doesn't get too crispy.  I'll rotate it every 30 seconds or so and move it around with a thin metal peel.

That's it. 

If this works for you, let me know, and I'd be happy to talk here or offline if you need any more detail.

jtcBoynton

Some thoughts to consider:

Cooking temperature depends on style of pizza and dough recipe. If your dough recipe says 425°, you might push it to about 500°, but don't go much higher.  You just need to get the right balance of dough, time, temp, and stone placement.  Having the stone at gasket level is usually too low. Most pizza need to get some radiant heat from the dome. If the dough is getting done before the toppings, raise the stone higher. Make sure the ceramics have truly reached heat saturation before cooking because you are relying on the dome to radiate heat back towards the top of the pizza.

The key is to get the stone close enough to the dome to get the right amount of radiant heat coming off the dome. If the stone is too far from the dome, the toppings will not be done by the time the dough is cooked. If the stone is too close to the dome, the toppings will burn by the time the dough is cooked. The proper height will depend on the dough recipe, cooking temp, dough thickness, and amount of toppings. Many find the sweet spot to have the stone 2-3" above the felt line - but remember you will need to dial it in for yourself. We all make our pizzas a little different so take all the advice as a starting point and make adjustments for your personal style.

There are many types of pizza and they have differing cooking needs. In general, I think of the differences in terms of "thin crust/high temp/short time/high hydration dough'" vs "thick crust/lower temp/longer time/lower hydration dough". Many people like what is often called American style pizza. This is medium to medium-thick crust cooked at moderate temps for longer times. 500°F +- works well for this. If you want a NY style or Neapolitan style pizza, you need temps higher.  

All good dough recipes provide a recommended cooking temp.  Pay attention. Don't use a Neapolitan dough for a Chicago style pizza.

Don't overload the toppings!!!!

paqman

Burned bottom = oil and/or sugar in the dough

00 flour has better tolerance to heat

Finish the top with a blowtorch (I use a butane torch)

I gave up on pizza on the egg last year after changing my bands for a second time.  I purchased a Pizzacraft pronto oven last year and will most likely selling it soon because I just purchased a Roccbox (will be delivered friday).

paqman

Recipe I use is in this thread: https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1141565/finally-the-pizza-dough-recipe-i-was-looking-for/p1

00 flour was a game changer.  I used to get Antimo Caputo chef flour from La Bottega in the byward market but I recently found out that Adonis in Gatineau carries it and it is like 3.50$ per 1kg bag.  I’ll take a picture of the bag in a few minutes to show you what it looks like.

paqman

@GrateEggspectations Bottom right is the Antimo Caputo « red » bag 00 flour.  If you can get your hands on the semolina, it is pretty good too to make fresh pasta.  Costco in Gatineau (saturday) had the organic 11.3 KG bag of unbleached AP flour, it is the same as « La milanaise » sold in grocery stores for less than 1/2 the price.

Bottom picture is my Coronapocalypse stash of pizza flour.  I had a 25KG bag of Antimo Caputo blue bag on order from La bottega but they closed so not sure what will happen with that.  Adonis has 1 pounds bags of instant yeast for 5$.

EggNorth

@paqman  - That’s a great supply you have there. Nice yeast supply, cannot find any in the stores here.  The Costco flour BoReal is all I have been using for a while, I find it works like oo four and is great for pizza and bread.

paqman

EggNorth said:

@paqman  - That’s a great supply you have there. Nice yeast supply, cannot find any in the stores here.  The Costco flour BoReal is all I have been using for a while, I find it works like oo four and is great for pizza and bread.

@EggNorth Where are you located?  If you are running out, I can grab a pack for you next time I go and mail it to you.  The store had tons of those 1 pound packs, they actually had another brand (SAF or red star) for 3$ but the « expiry » date was much closer.  This one was 5$ and has an expiration date in 2022.  Flour was hard to find until a few days ago, I actually ran out.

GrateEggspectations

Thanks to all who input on this one. I really appreciate the time you have all taken to weigh in. Special thanks to @thetrim for the gracious offer of the one-on-one coaching session. I just may take you up on that down the road, should I fail in my next few attempts.

I have largely already been following the good advice provided above (i.e., pre-heated stone high in dome, space between plate setter and stone, 00 flour, etc.). Some of the info included above leads me to believe that either my dough recipe is the cause of the burning (here is one I’ve used on a recent cook - https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016230-robertas-pizza-dough), or I am just not using appropriate temps relative to the dough recipe being employed. Also, I tend to get a little overzealous with the toppings, but I already knew that. 😊 I will review the input once more and adjust accordingly. 

I know it is possible to make good pizza on the Egg, as I once went to a friend’s place for an evening of cooks and his buddy fired up one of the best pizzas I’ve ever had on his Primo kamado. Would love to recreate those results. 

paqman

@GrateEggspectations Not all 00 flour are created equal.  Technically, it is just the grind type.  Protein content as well as other “specs” also have a role to play.  I can’t see the NY Times recipe (paywall) but if it has sugar or oil in it and you are baking over 425F for too long, my experience is thar it will burn.  You need to follow the baking temperature for the dough recipe that you are using.

I have a new favorite recipe with a 14 hours room temperature bulk ferment and way less yeast.  I’ll post it soon, need to take care of something now.

BTW, I just scored a 25KG bag of Antimo Caputo Nuvola Super flour 😂 It was impossible to find before the pandemic so I consider myself extremely lucky to find some right now.  I am ecstatic and hoping that it lives up to the hype.

kennethk

Took a few dozen tries to figure out a version that we love.

Guy Fieri dough

Large Egg
plate setter
any lump charcoal
12" stone on PS Woo at felt level
~600 degrees
Wait for 30-40 minutes after hitting 600
light sprinkle of corn meal on stone
dough recipe allows for a super thin crust that's easy to roll
parchment paper on counter
light flower dusting
roll dough thin
wipe with olive olive
thin coat of sauce
garlic powder
basil flakes
red pepper flakes
moza cheese
sauteed mushrooms
pepperoni
cut paper around dough
place on stone for 3 minutes
pull out paper
cook 2 minutes more
Turns out perfect now doing this
Leftovers are still great two days later
Dough recipe makes four pies
 

jtcBoynton

paqman said:

....
BTW, I just scored a 25KG bag of Antimo Caputo Nuvola Super flour 😂 It was impossible to find before the pandemic so I consider myself extremely lucky to find some right now.  I am ecstatic and hoping that it lives up to the hype.

Do you see much difference between a 0 grind and a 00 grind?  How does a 0 grind compare to typical American grinds?

GrateEggspectations

@paqman: Weird that you couldn’t see the NYT recipe. Not behind a paywall for me. No stated baking temp.  

paqman

jtcBoynton said:

paqman said:

....
BTW, I just scored a 25KG bag of Antimo Caputo Nuvola Super flour 😂 It was impossible to find before the pandemic so I consider myself extremely lucky to find some right now.  I am ecstatic and hoping that it lives up to the hype.

Do you see much difference between a 0 grind and a 00 grind?  How does a 0 grind compare to typical American grinds?

@jtcBoynton That is impossible to say, American flour types are classified based on their protein content (low for cake/pastry, medium for all purpose, and high for bread).  The grind size varies from brand to brand but is often the same for different types within the same brand.  Italian flour are classified by grind size 2 (coarser), 1, 0, 00 (finer).  You can have 00 flour with low or high protein content (same is true for other grinds).  The mineral, protein, gluten can vary depending on the use of the flour.  Some 00 flour are suitable for pasta but not pizza (in fact, my understanding is that most 00 are not suitable for pizza and are designed to be used to make pasta).  Protein content, gluten, mineral content (ash), type of grain and probably tons of other factors are taken into account when Italians design a flour for a purpose.  It gets crazy when you start looking into the details.  Surprisingly, the Nuvola (coarser grind) feels finer than the Caputo 00 chef’s flour red bag (finer grind).  The Nuvola almost feels like baby powder.  I am by no mean an expert and I am sure that if you talked to an Italian that knows this stuff he could talk to you for hours about all the variations, that’s kinda how I ended up scoring the bag of Nuvola instead of the blue bag I was supposed to pick up 😂

paqman

@GrateEggspectations That’s weird, I tried the link again and it forces me to create an account 🤔

The recipe looks real close to the one I was using except for the oil.  I only spray a tiny bit of oil on the container that will contain the dough balls.  Half and half AP/00 flour sounds like a good mix for a lower high temperature pie.

What brand of 00 flour are you using?  There was a big marketing push by Caputo a few years ago in social media and most of the recipes that you will see that call for 00 flour were created with the Caputo 00 red bag flour (which is not the typical 00 flour).

SonVolt

I get better results cooking pizza in my oven than I do my egg. Gotta jump through a lot of hoops with the egg and you still get less than optimal results IMO. It does make a killer "grilled pizza" though where you blind bake the dough on the grates, like a flat bread, then add your topping. 

Hoster05

ken forkish's pizza book really got me to a good spot.  Also i recommend the pizza steel vs the stone, that really enhanced the crusts on my pies.  

paqman

SonVolt said:

I get better results cooking pizza in my oven than I do my egg. Gotta jump through a lot of hoops with the egg and you still get less than optimal results IMO. It does make a killer "grilled pizza" though where you blind bake the dough on the grates, like a flat bread, then add your topping. 

I get better results on the egg than in the oven.  I barely get any browning of the crust in the oven.  I get really good results on the egg but the high temperature ruined my bands.

SonVolt

paqman said:

SonVolt said:

I get better results cooking pizza in my oven than I do my egg. Gotta jump through a lot of hoops with the egg and you still get less than optimal results IMO. It does make a killer "grilled pizza" though where you blind bake the dough on the grates, like a flat bread, then add your topping. 

I get better results on the egg than in the oven.  I barely get any browning of the crust in the oven.  I get really good results on the egg but the high temperature ruined my bands.

It's probably all oven dependent. But the best technique I've found is using a pizza steel set about 8" below the broiler. After a nice long preheat to 550F I blast the gas broiler then slide the pizza in. Pizzas cook in about 90-120 seconds.  This oven setup probably made the biggest improvement in my pizza game over anything else... I think I learned it either from Cook's Illustrated or Serious Eats. 

Carolina Q

SonVolt said:

paqman said:

SonVolt said:

I get better results cooking pizza in my oven than I do my egg. Gotta jump through a lot of hoops with the egg and you still get less than optimal results IMO. It does make a killer "grilled pizza" though where you blind bake the dough on the grates, like a flat bread, then add your topping. 

I get better results on the egg than in the oven.  I barely get any browning of the crust in the oven.  I get really good results on the egg but the high temperature ruined my bands.

It's probably all oven dependent. But the best technique I've found is using a pizza steel set about 8" below the broiler. After a nice long preheat to 550F I blast the gas broiler then slide the pizza in. Pizzas cook in about 90-120 seconds.  This oven setup probably made the biggest improvement in my pizza game over anything else... I think I learned it either from Cook's Illustrated or Serious Eats. 

Absolutely agree with this! Here's one...

Carolina Q

PS, I can get similar results on the egg, but the oven is just so much easier! And quicker.

jtcBoynton

paqman said:

jtcBoynton said:

paqman said:

....
BTW, I just scored a 25KG bag of Antimo Caputo Nuvola Super flour 😂 It was impossible to find before the pandemic so I consider myself extremely lucky to find some right now.  I am ecstatic and hoping that it lives up to the hype.

Do you see much difference between a 0 grind and a 00 grind?  How does a 0 grind compare to typical American grinds?

@jtcBoynton That is impossible to say, American flour types are classified based on their protein content (low for cake/pastry, medium for all purpose, and high for bread).  The grind size varies from brand to brand but is often the same for different types within the same brand.  Italian flour are classified by grind size 2 (coarser), 1, 0, 00 (finer).  You can have 00 flour with low or high protein content (same is true for other grinds).  The mineral, protein, gluten can vary depending on the use of the flour.  Some 00 flour are suitable for pasta but not pizza (in fact, my understanding is that most 00 are not suitable for pizza and are designed to be used to make pasta).  Protein content, gluten, mineral content (ash), type of grain and probably tons of other factors are taken into account when Italians design a flour for a purpose.  It gets crazy when you start looking into the details.  Surprisingly, the Nuvola (coarser grind) feels finer than the Caputo 00 chef’s flour red bag (finer grind).  The Nuvola almost feels like baby powder.  I am by no mean an expert and I am sure that if you talked to an Italian that knows this stuff he could talk to you for hours about all the variations, that’s kinda how I ended up scoring the bag of Nuvola instead of the blue bag I was supposed to pick up 😂

Good explanation. I just wish more people understood this. Lots of people throw out the expression “use 00 flour” without specifying what type. See the NYT recipe above as an example. 

SonVolt

JohnInCarolina said:

Not sure I can help you all that much given that I haven't cooked pizza on the BGE in forever, but I do think I can help you out with the dough.  My go-to dough these days is actually one that's a NY-style and designed to be cooked around 700F.  The recipe (with YouTube video) is here:

https://us.gozney.com/blogs/recipes/new-york-style-pizza

It's a bit of a pain to make in the sense that it uses three different flours: a mix of bread flour, whole wheat, and 00.  But even during this pandemic all three of those are regularly available online.   

In my experience this takes about 3 minutes to cook at 700F.  If you're cooking at lower temps (550F is much easier to manage in the BGE) it will take a couple minutes longer.  

I'll have to give this recipe a try. If you make you often, have you considered mixing the flours together in a big batch and storing it? Or will settling screw up the ratios?

Carolina Q

Ok, what's the deal here? I thought the preferred Caputo flour (red bag, blue bag, whatever) was Tipo "00". The Antimo Caputo Nuvola Super shown above (and everywhere else I've seen it) is Tipo "0". Izzat the right stuff?

jtcBoynton

Last time I looked, Caputo made several different flours designed for pizza making.  The also have several different ones designed for pasta and several designed for bread and some for pastry.  Their pizza flours come in both 0 and 00. 

Carolina Q

jtcBoynton said:

Their pizza flours come in both 0 and 00. 

Thanks. I didn't know that.

balamaci

I have made this dough with mixed results. I found that lowering the heat to 550 and using parchment paper had better results.  I used the Red Caputo flour from wegmans. Per the video, they cooked it for 4 minutes in the oven without mentioning the temperature. They said in 1000° wood oven it takes 60 seconds.  I will make it again when I can find oo Caputo flour.

Below is the recipe ...

 Roberta’s Pizza Dough

  By Sam Sifton

YIELD Two 12-inch pizzas

20 minutes plus at least 3 hours' rising

This recipe, adapted from Roberta’s, the pizza and hipster haute-cuisine utopia in Bushwick, Brooklyn, provides a delicate, extraordinarily flavorful dough that will last in the refrigerator for up to a week. It rewards close attention to weight rather than volume in the matter of the ingredients, and asks for a mixture of finely ground Italian pizza flour (designated “00” on the bags and available in some supermarkets, many specialty groceries and always online) and regular all-purpose flour. As ever with breads, rise time will depend on the temperature and humidity of your kitchen and refrigerator.

Our Greatest Pizza Recipes (http://cooking.nytimes.com/68861692-nyt-cooking/807163-our-greatest-pizza-recipes)

TIME

INGREDIENTS

153 grams 00 flour (1 cup plus 1 tablespoon)

153 grams all-purpose flour (1 cup plus 1 tablespoon and 2 teaspoons)

8 grams fine sea salt (1 teaspoon)
2 grams active dry yeast (3/4 teaspoon)

4 grams extra-virgin olive oil (1 teaspoon)

PREPARATION

Step 1

In a large mixing bowl, combine flours and salt.

Step 2

In a small mixing bowl, stir together 200 grams (a little less than 1 cup) lukewarm tap water, the yeast and the olive oil, then pour it into flour mixture. Knead with your hands until well combined, approximately 3 minutes, then let the mixture rest for 15 minutes.

Step 3

Knead rested dough for 3 minutes. Cut into 2 equal pieces and shape each into a ball. Place on a heavily floured surface, cover with dampened cloth, and let rest and rise for 3 to 4 hours at room temperature or for 8 to 24 hours in the refrigerator. (If you refrigerate the dough, remove it 30 to 45 minutes before you begin to shape it for pizza.)

Step 4

To make pizza, place each dough ball on a heavily floured surface and use your fingers to stretch it, then your hands to shape it into rounds or squares. Top and bake.

PRIVATE NOTES
Leave a Private Note on this recipe and see it here.

Adapted from "Roberta's," by Carlo Mirarchi, Brandon Hoy, Chris Parachini and Katherine Wheelock

https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016230-robertas-pizza-dough 1/1the full recipe...

elpescadorzih

I use this dough recipe. 
https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/07/basic-neapolitan-pizza-dough-recipe.html