OT - Electric Cars in China - OT

Botch

PBS has had some great stories this week on things happening in China (yesterday's story on their nationwide camera/Facial recognition/AI system was bone-chilling) and tonight's story was much happier/forward-looking, their push toward electric transportation.  
- First, to avoid congestion, China actually has a lottery system to even be able to drive a car there, and it sounds like its as hard to get as a moose-hunting license here in utard; some folks never get license plates in their lifetime.
- The local behemoth in electric cars, Nio, is building recharging stations that, instead of taking 2 hours to recharge the batteries, it used hydraulic robots under the road surface to swap out the depleted battery for a fully-charged one, into the car; this was tickling to me as I've been suggesting this to anyone who would listen for awhile now.  Oddly, the electric taxis that another city required had to be recharged directly.  
- The shots of Nio's factory, completely robotized, were fascinating.  There was one robot that had one arm, with what looked like a 6-foot "C" clamp attached to it, with an electric motor tightening it rather than a finger-post.  No idea what it was pressing...
- 2/3rds of China's electric power still comes from coal, so conversion to electric doesn't really solve the pollution problem just yet.  However, China also now has the world's largest dam system throughout its country; the story didn't address that.
- Other world manufacturers have adapted their models to the chinese market; Ford, GM, Audi have chinese-specific models being sold there, and Tesla is just finishing up their first chinese plant now.   
 
Cool stuff!  

TN_Egger

I saw that and share your interest!

Gulfcoastguy

You can find a lot of these stories on greencarreports.com. Something else is that China is the only country planning on building 4th generation nuclear power plants, in fact Bill Gates is working with them.

NorthPilot06

I wish they’d take safety more seriously though. I used to work in an engineering capacity at [the now bankrupt] Westinghouse Electric and the number of fatal accidents on the new plant builds over there was sad. 

JohnInCarolina

EVs are the way of the future.  It’s just a better product, period.  

lousubcap

Not gonna discount their approach but as noted their power grid infrastructure cannot (at least 20 years ago-and that is several energy life-times...) support their cities much less down-stream demands.  Flying into any large city at night and portions were dark as the grid was not capable of supporting the demand. Likely improved but...

HeavyG

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Eoin

I'm 500 miles in to running a full battery EV as my daily driver. It requires a bit more thought, but seems feasible.

The battery swap idea was tried and dropped by Tesla. Recharging is quite fast now and getting faster. My car takes 45 kW from a 50 kW charger and has a 40 kWh battery. It will charge at that rate up to 80%.  Teslas and some others support faster chargers, up to 150 kW.

Price is still an issue, although there are some tax incentives for EVs here in the UK now. Tesla Model 3s are arriving here now, noticeable out on a long trip yesterday - I saw a lot of Teslas on the road.

As for running costs, £8 per month (<$10) gets me free charging on a 7 kW post at work. My intention is to get around 1,200 miles of use a month within this cost.

Lowcountrygamecock

I’m all for electric vehicles and am excited to see how the Tesla trucks do. But you can’t just slap 50 kW chargers on the grid at your house and expect it to work without some upgrades to your wiring and the utility. My house and my neighbors are served from a single 25 kva transformer. A 50 kW charger will let the smoke out of that baby in a hurry.

Eoin

Lowcountrygamecock said:

I’m all for electric vehicles and am excited to see how the Tesla trucks do. But you can’t just slap 50 kW chargers on the grid at your house and expect it to work without some upgrades to your wiring and the utility. My house and my neighbors are served from a single 25 kva transformer. A 50 kW charger will let the smoke out of that baby in a hurry.

There's no need for a 50 kW charger at home, home charging is mostly done overnight. I've only got the 3kW charger that works on a standard socket and I've not used that yet. 7kW single phase is usually doable at home.

billt01

people get their panties in a wad over a plastic straw..there are 276 million cars registered in 2019..that is a lot of of plastic and dead cells to dispose of...

TEXASBGE2018

Come talk to me when I can drive my electric vehicle for 400miles in 1 charge and not have to stop somewhere for 2hours if I need a recharge. Also, come talk to me when that car costs about $35,000-$40,000 new with a little style. And no a Tesla 3 ain’t it.

TEXASBGE2018

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of Electric Cars, but the technology for them to replace gas vehicles is decades away. It will be much better for the world overall and we can certainly lead the effort and should but as of now, they are a rich persons toy and status symbol. Interesting read though!

Tbent

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Come talk to me when I can drive my electric vehicle for 400miles in 1 charge and not have to stop somewhere for 2hours if I need a recharge. Also, come talk to me when that car costs about $35,000-$40,000 new with a little style. And no a Tesla 3 ain’t it.

Style is subjective I suppose. A Model 3 may be a little closer than you think on the rest though. Mid-$40's for 310 miles of range. A 405 mile trip from my driveway in Illinois to Clarksville, Tn included one ~25 minute supercharger stop. And that's a V2 150 kW charger (V3 superchargers are rolling out with 250 kW). The car was charged and ready to go before I was done grabbing lunch. The cost to fuel at home, nearly zero maintenance, and the low 4's 0-60 aren't too bad either. American company/American made to boot. 

Eoin

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Come talk to me when I can drive my electric vehicle for 400miles in 1 charge and not have to stop somewhere for 2hours if I need a recharge. Also, come talk to me when that car costs about $35,000-$40,000 new with a little style. And no a Tesla 3 ain’t it.

Charging doesn't take 2 hours.

TEXASBGE2018

Eoin said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Come talk to me when I can drive my electric vehicle for 400miles in 1 charge and not have to stop somewhere for 2hours if I need a recharge. Also, come talk to me when that car costs about $35,000-$40,000 new with a little style. And no a Tesla 3 ain’t it.

Charging doesn't take 2 hours.

Ya it ain’t the 3min it takes me to fill my 4runner either. Having to plan out an extra 30min even for “charging” would pretty much turn off 90% of people here in the U.S. we want instant everything 

TEXASBGE2018

Tbent said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Come talk to me when I can drive my electric vehicle for 400miles in 1 charge and not have to stop somewhere for 2hours if I need a recharge. Also, come talk to me when that car costs about $35,000-$40,000 new with a little style. And no a Tesla 3 ain’t it.

Style is subjective I suppose. A Model 3 may be a little closer than you think on the rest though. Mid-$40's for 310 miles of range. A 405 mile trip from my driveway in Illinois to Clarksville, Tn included one ~25 minute supercharger stop. And that's a V2 150 kW charger (V3 superchargers are rolling out with 250 kW). The car was charged and ready to go before I was done grabbing lunch. The cost to fuel at home, nearly zero maintenance, and the low 4's 0-60 aren't too bad either. American company/American made to boot. 

The cheapest model 3 in my area is around $50k before tax for the package you are talking about. Plus there are very few charging stations in relation to gas stations. My point being that until they can mass produce enough to make a person earning $35k a year afford one and not have to stop for a 30min lunch in order to charge they won’t become mainstream. The other issue that exists for average folk is the high cost of retrofitting your house to charge them. It’s several thousands of dollars just for that. Hopefully In the next 10-15 years home builders will start incorporating that into their builds.

Tbent

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Tbent said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Come talk to me when I can drive my electric vehicle for 400miles in 1 charge and not have to stop somewhere for 2hours if I need a recharge. Also, come talk to me when that car costs about $35,000-$40,000 new with a little style. And no a Tesla 3 ain’t it.

Style is subjective I suppose. A Model 3 may be a little closer than you think on the rest though. Mid-$40's for 310 miles of range. A 405 mile trip from my driveway in Illinois to Clarksville, Tn included one ~25 minute supercharger stop. And that's a V2 150 kW charger (V3 superchargers are rolling out with 250 kW). The car was charged and ready to go before I was done grabbing lunch. The cost to fuel at home, nearly zero maintenance, and the low 4's 0-60 aren't too bad either. American company/American made to boot. 

The cheapest model 3 in my area is around $50k before tax for the package you are talking about. Plus there are very few charging stations in relation to gas stations. My point being that until they can mass produce enough to make a person earning $35k a year afford one and not have to stop for a 30min lunch in order to charge they won’t become mainstream. The other issue that exists for average folk is the high cost of retrofitting your house to charge them. It’s several thousands of dollars just for that. Hopefully In the next 10-15 years home builders will start incorporating that into their builds.


There is no special retrofitting needed for your house to be able to charge. A standard 220 outlet gives you 30-40 miles of range per hour charged. You plug in overnight and have a "full tank" waiting for you every morning. 110 will give you about 5 miles per hour, which can even be good enough for some people who have a short daily commute. I spent zero dollars for the ability to charge at my house. 
For most people 95% of charging is done at home. Much fewer charge stations are needed relative to gas stations. Supercharging is only needed for long road trips. Even on long road trips that 25 minute charge has been my longest stop. For the most part you stop at a supercharger for about 10 minutes to get enough charge to get to the next stop. It's usually enough time to hit the bathroom and maybe grab a drink. 

Eoin

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Eoin said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Come talk to me when I can drive my electric vehicle for 400miles in 1 charge and not have to stop somewhere for 2hours if I need a recharge. Also, come talk to me when that car costs about $35,000-$40,000 new with a little style. And no a Tesla 3 ain’t it.

Charging doesn't take 2 hours.

Ya it ain’t the 3min it takes me to fill my 4runner either. Having to plan out an extra 30min even for “charging” would pretty much turn off 90% of people here in the U.S. we want instant everything 

It won't fit with all lifestyles at the moment, we still have one petrol car and one electric. The electric costs a fraction per mile to run and can deal with most shorter trips with no inconvenience.