Smoke ring or lack thereof, what am I doing wrong?

unoriginalusername

I know its a little Apples to Oranges comparison, but a friends low & slow cooks on a pellet smoker produce a smoke ring that gets applause from the crowd.  Many of you post photos with a smoke ring result on the egg that is also spectacular and I am looking for some tips on what I might be doing wrong that prevents a similar result.

Wood
I use wood chunks more than chips lately, I often soak a few chunks in water for a while before putting them into the fire and starting my cook.  Pork butt using apple/cherry and this weekends brisket was pecan/apple.

The smoke from wet wood is always white vs. clear/clean smoke... should the chunks be dry for better smoke ring results?

Grill airflow setup 
for a pulled pork I tend to have no problem holding 195-205 overnight without any need for adjustments, brisket 250 or ribs 272 but I am wondering if I need to flip my airflow setup for a better smoke ring?

I always have the bottom grate wide open and have my daisy wheel positioned to whatever temp I want to achieve, 200 usually just a hair of space and 250 a couple 10ths more etc.  Is this causing bad convection / airflow that should instead restrict the air flow in but vent out more easily?

Misc
I occasionally will put a drip tray on the plate setter under the grill and have a little water in it, results don't seem to be any different with water or not on the smoke ring but if this is to blame I will definitely break the habit.

When possible, I use a raised grid for low and slow cooks to keep things as indirect as possible and up in the dome.


Bark is amazing, tenderness and flavour is awesome but I'd like to present a better smoke ring.  Any tips would be appreciated, thanks 

johnnyp

Smoke rings are tough on kamado style cookers.   Relatively low air flowrate compared to offsets and pellets

Fortunately, smoke rings are just cosmetic

TEXASBGE2018

That’s a lot of things you are worried about when the only 2 things you should do is make sure you put your meat on the egg cold and spritz it frequently with water or apple cider vinegar.   

unoriginalusername

TEXASBGE2018 said:

That’s a lot of things you are worried about when the only 2 things you should do is make sure you put your meat on the egg cold and spritz it frequently with water or apple cider vinegar.   

Lol aren't all pitmasters paranoid about way more things than necessary?  I do spritz with either Apple cider vinegar, or an inexpensive whiskey that I've pre-smoked.

On the cold meat though, I watched an Aaron Franklin video that says you only need to fake out a smoke ring if you're not getting a real smoke ring so I've been trying to produce a ring on meat that has come up to temp some (i.e. this weekends brisket was out for about 45min).  

Eggcelsior

White smoke from wet wood is mostly just steam. If you really want one, you can fake it with a bit of curing salt or use bark-containing wood chunks and/or green wood, since they have more Nitric Oxide than other types of wood. NO is what binds to myoglobin to create the rosy color. Works best with moisture, so spritzing your meat can help too.

Again, it's purely cosmetic.

TEXASBGE2018

unoriginalusername said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

That’s a lot of things you are worried about when the only 2 things you should do is make sure you put your meat on the egg cold and spritz it frequently with water or apple cider vinegar.   

Lol aren't all pitmasters paranoid about way more things than necessary?  I do spritz with either Apple cider vinegar, or an inexpensive whiskey that I've pre-smoked.

On the cold meat though, I watched an Aaron Franklin video that says you only need to fake out a smoke ring if you're not getting a real smoke ring so I've been trying to produce a ring on meat that has come up to temp some (i.e. this weekends brisket was out for about 45min).  

All I know is I usually get a quarter inch to a half inch smoke ring on all my meat every time I cook on the egg and the only two things that I know I’ve done consistently are put the meat on cold and sprits with apple cider vinegar every couple hours

saluki2007

Not sure if anything I typing will help or not with the smoke ring, but they will help save you some unnecessary steps.

No need to soak wood chunks or chips.

When I have the DW on i barely have the bottom vent and top vents open.  But if that setup is working for you no need to change.

I don't add water to my drip pans.  I just make sure to have an air gap under it so the drips dont get scorched.

Something that might help with your smoke ring is use a salt heavy rub and put the protein on straight from the fridge.

Carolina Q

Smoke rings have nothing to do with smoke. Just the interaction among carbon monoxide, nitric oxide and myoglobin. Cook temp, meat temp and moisture also figure into it.

https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/more-cooking-science/mythbusting-smoke-ring-no-smoke-necessary

Disclaimer: I don't usually even notice whether or not I have a smoke ring. Don't care. 

fishlessman

hot and fast with alot of wood. i think this one was 350 direct til 160 internal, 2.5 hours, then finished wrapped for 5 hours total. things that also help, tree bark, briquettes. i dont seem to have a problem with low and slows either

Carolina Q

There's a chart in the article I linked above that indicates briquettes are considerably better for this than lump. But it also mentioned that a "roaring" fire was required. Low temp briquettes apparently not so much.

Theophan

STRONGLY agree with others above that a smoke ring is purely cosmetic.  I think you're focusing on the wrong thing.  "Fake" or "real," a smoke ring says exactly nothing about real smoke flavor.  Read the link offered above about smoke rings, and you'll understand the issues much better.

If you care a lot about the opinions of people who, in their ignorance, suppose smoke rings are important, then try @TEXASBGE2018's suggestions, since he says they work well for him, or even mix a little curing salt into your rub.

For myself, I just wanted to get a lot of good smoke flavor on some of the things I cook, and once I figured out how to do that, I just didn't care whether I get a smoke ring or not.

NPHuskerFL

It's science

TEXASBGE2018

Theophan said:

STRONGLY agree with others above that a smoke ring is purely cosmetic.  I think you're focusing on the wrong thing.  "Fake" or "real," a smoke ring says exactly nothing about real smoke flavor.  Read the link offered above about smoke rings, and you'll understand the issues much better.

If you care a lot about the opinions of people who, in their ignorance, suppose smoke rings are important, then try @TEXASBGE2018's suggestions, since he says they work well for him, or even mix a little curing salt into your rub.

For myself, I just wanted to get a lot of good smoke flavor on some of the things I cook, and once I figured out how to do that, I just didn't care whether I get a smoke ring or not.

I'm not sure how to take this? I don't think it was meant as an insult to me as I don't really care about smoke rings either. I don't think @Theophan was implying it, but I have had good results with my method. I'm with @Theophan. Its purely cosmetic. I judge BBQ every year at the State Fair of Texas and Its one of those BBQ judging, BBQ Pitmasters things that folks like Myron Mixon think are important. When I use to cook on a WSM I would get them sometimes and sometimes not. The meat tasted the exact same whether I did or didn't have a smoke ring.

Theophan

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I'm not sure how to take this? I don't think it was meant as an insult to me as I don't really care about smoke rings either. ...

Exactly right!  Sorry if there was any confusion on that!  I personally think that caring about smoke rings is a mistake, but that if you do care about smoke rings, it sounds like you have a good procedure that works.  I didn't at all mean to imply that you care a lot about smoke rings, but that it happens that the way you do it tends to make good smoke rings.

TEXASBGE2018

Theophan said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I'm not sure how to take this? I don't think it was meant as an insult to me as I don't really care about smoke rings either. ...

Exactly right!  Sorry if there was any confusion on that!  I personally think that caring about smoke rings is a mistake, but that if you do care about smoke rings, it sounds like you have a good procedure that works.  I didn't at all mean to imply that you care a lot about smoke rings, but that it happens that the way you do it tends to make good smoke rings.

I figured as much. You sir are always respectful that's why I didn't think much of it.

unoriginalusername

ok thanks for the tips, sounds like I should just ignore Queen B who says if I liked my brisket than I should have put a ring on it.

Will try a few different spritz options, dry wood for smoking and putting the meat on colder in the future to see what result I get with that 

logchief

+ whatever on @Carolina Qs link to amazingribs.com.  Mine always vary and taste is everything.  Here's a good one that happened by chance.

fishlessman

unoriginalusername said:

ok thanks for the tips, sounds like I should just ignore Queen B who says if I liked my brisket than I should have put a ring on it.

Will try a few different spritz options, dry wood for smoking and putting the meat on colder in the future to see what result I get with that 

colder meat sweats better, more ring.  bigger chunks of meat and or more meat packed in the egg helps also, if im cooking a big brisket, i want a big butt in there as well.  i did a butt once with no ring, no bark, it was a white butt. lit the fire thru the lower vent on that cook, will never do that again. 200 for a pit temp in an egg is too low, get it hotter, atleast 220/230 dome temp. you could also add celery salt to the rub

YukonRon

Cold meat is the key. Start there.  Some other things you can do,is what is done around here by brisket experts; a bit of cherry wood seems to help them in the smoke. If the heavy ring is the goal, rub in some curing salt. 

I do not use a curing salt rub nor use cherry wood (I use pecan). I use soy sauce as the binder on the spicy coffee rub because of the flavor. I also cheat by using an injection of 50% low sodium beef broth, 25% garlic juice with 25% onion juice, prior to placing on the egg, and again during the stall.

None of what I do is for the ring.

GATraveller

Of all the things I worry about when placing protein on the egg - this is the last of them.

bikesAndBBQ

I think I read that celery seeds help the smoke ring??  You could add that to your rub.

CtTOPGUN

Celery seed or celery salt in the rub will help(or a touch of curing salt). Another in the camp that cold meat will take on a smoke ring better than room temp meat. Yes on spritzing!

DoubleEgger

johnnyp said:

Fortunately, smoke rings are just cosmetic

So are fake boobs but we still love ‘em. 

gdenby

My .02

The chemical reaction that forms the color stops when the meat reaches 140F. The color penetration, as well as much of the smoke flavor penetration depends on the meat surface not drying out.

So do put the meat on cold, and spritz or baste if the surface is desiccating early on.

Properly dried wood that has been soaked doesn't really have all that much water in it. The soaking is only important if using a really hot cooker and you don't want the wood to burst into flame right away. Otherwise it just slows things down boiling away water and makes creosote formation in the Egg a little more likely.

Toxarch

DoubleEgger said:

johnnyp said:

Fortunately, smoke rings are just cosmetic

So are fake boobs but we still love ‘em. 

And like a smoke ring, those don't change the taste either. 

thetrim

fishlessman said:

hot and fast with alot of wood. i think this one was 350 direct til 160 internal, 2.5 hours, then finished wrapped for 5 hours total. things that also help, tree bark, briquettes. i dont seem to have a problem with low and slows either

That is a thing of beauty, fish!