OT - Any day traders?

RedSkip

Getting myself interested in this world and curious if any eggheads day trade.  

Lit

I'll trade you a Wednesday for a Friday.

RedSkip

I was hoping for a few tickers not actual days...but I did ask for day trades.  Touche

YEMTrey

It's a real quick and easy way to go broke.

RedSkip

I know, or quick and easy to make it big.  Yet 90% of traders fail, so the deck is stacked against anyone who tries.  Too many algorithms to complete with.

YEMTrey

That and, along the lines of one of my favorite quotes:

"You may be very smart and your evaluation and research correct.  However, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

And with what's going on in politics lately, this would be an even more extremely difficult time to day trade.  You could be doing everything right, but  you know who in the White House could change everything in a second.

Wolfpack

I had several friends who did it for years- always claimed they were beating the market. Until they weren't and mysteriously went back to work. 

YEMTrey

I'd be much more comfortable say if you had a ton of experience in a field of work.  Say you've been in pharmaceutical sales you're entire life.  You be seasoned enough to know trends and spot something earlier than others and could take advantage of that.
Stay within your circle of competence, otherwise you're just gambling.

Lit

RedSkip said:

I was hoping for a few tickers not actual days...but I did ask for day trades.  Touche

I know I was just kidding. Like stated above it's risky especially shorting. If I remember correctly you have to set up a margin account to cover your losses before hand. You also have to consider the amount of time it takes to track your gains and loses day to day for taxes. I have a buddy that wasn't day trading but was buying and selling a lot and it ended up getting him audited and cost him a decent amount of money due to all the work involved.

RedSkip

Sounds like you're a seasoned vet of the market YemTrey

Spaightlabs

Get ya some.

If it doesn't say casino on the door, it ain't gamblin!

Try Forex too- easy money for sure.

YEMTrey

I have definitely learned many a lessons.

Markarm4119

It is a good hobby if....red is your favorite color!

Spaightlabs

you know how to make a small fortune in day trading?

Start with a large fortune.

I'm sure you'll be fine.

RedSkip

No different then spending money here, it's all flammable one way or another.

Eoin

YEMTrey said:

That and, along the lines of one of my favorite quotes:

"You may be very smart and your evaluation and research correct.  However, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

And with what's going on in politics lately, this would be an even more extremely difficult time to day trade.  You could be doing everything right, but  you know who in the White House could change everything in a second.

I nearly always have a currency position of some sort with my business as I sell in £ and Euro and buy in £ and Euro, more of the time net buying Euro. Trading shares or gold or other commodities is similar technically.

The first point @YEMTrey makes is correct and also a favourite quote of mine, in that you can be right about the fundamentals and where the currency or other market is going, but wrong about the timing. This is in a standard market and I'm comfortable enough taking a position in a standard market - win some, lose some. Short term day variations are almost impossible to pick, and I watch the £ Euro pair constantly and have been doing for a long time.

At the moment it's far worse doing business here in the UK with Brexit and I imagine it's the same in the US with Trump exercising his pen.  The risk situation now is like playing a risky and unpredictable game, but one where the rules keep getting changed. Brexit cost me 6 figures in £ on the currency over a 6 month period.

Dobie

Day trade, naw. I consult my broker on a few single stocks I like, paid off pretty good but I'm no Buffett. Consider this, you might like the NFL but do you think you can make it as a walk on? 

RedSkip

@Dobie Depends on the position, QB no, but kicker you bet!  I get the point veryone is making, just asking if anyone does it.  Look  alike not...

fishlessman

buy a boat.  i did that thinking i would lose money back in 1992 and its now worth twice as much   and im only in it 2 or 3 times a week so it doesnt get much use

Foghorn

My brother-in-law who is a smart, thoughtful guy did it for a while, but kept his day job.  He took a course, paid for access to data/anaylsis/etc, and played with fake money for a while.  He made fake money at it so he put some real money in the game and I followed along with him.  The plan all along was that if he can prove he can make money at it, I could contribute to the kitty and share in the profits.  I was cynical about daytrading in general, but thought that his approach was very measured and thoughtful - and he's not the kind of guy to get caught up in hype.  He put in $1000 and turned it into $2000 over about 2 months and about a dozen trades.  He was selective in his trades and explained them to me as he did each one.  He made money on about 2/3 and lost money on about 1/3 during that time.  So, we decided to go bigger.  I put in $2500 and he added $500 so we each had an equal stake.  He would do the work, so we agreed that he would get 2/3 of the profit.  He continued to keep me abreast of the trades and although I didn't understand it all they all seemed as reasonable as the earlier trades.  However, from that point forward, the ratio of losing to winning basically flipped - and the wins weren't as big.  Over about 6 months we turned $5000 into zero.  He concluded that he can't consistently pick winners in a ratio that ends up being profitable.  In the context of my entire investment/retirement portfolio it was worth a shot, because if it had worked it could have been a nice supplement to my other holdings - in a diversified way. So, I have no regrets, but I wouldn't recommend it to others.

YEMTrey

@RedSkip,

 

I was a very active trader in my past, daily if you will.  Not sure that qualifies as a true Day Trader because I would hold positions at close and sometimes for several trading days. 

I associate what I did more with “momentum” trading.  Following the news, reading, research, earnings announcements, etc and “timing” the market ahead of these things. 

An example of this would be: Reading industry analyst reports and noticing that the new iPhone sales are up at all carriers. Maybe riding AAPL UNTIL the earnings announcement.  And the UNTIL part is key.  Again, while your research may be correct, in the earnings announcement they may something about PC sales or margins shrinking that would cause the stock to drop.

Like you had said earlier yourself.  There are a ton of algorithms at play at lots of places.  They aren’t trading on news or emotion, only preset triggers that have been entered.  That’s how you have flash crashes.  No rationality, only numbers and triggers driving the selling.

Maybe take your “play money”, say 10% of your portfolio and mess around and day trade with it.  That way it scratches that itch you have, but doesn’t put your entire nut at risk.  Just a suggestion, good luck!

RedSkip

@YEMTrey There are a few sites out there where you can obtain Level 2 trade data for paper trading (practice).  It's a $100/month type of hobby, and you can see if your strategy and trade "rules", when applied properly, can make a profit before you dive all in.  

As a true hobby, keeping my day job, a few hundred bucks to get your toes wet isn't too risky.  

Just seems interesting to me, I get it, it's a risk and not for everyone.  

YEMTrey

I completely understand.  I plan to manage our portfolio full time once I retire in around 10 years.  Please keep us up to date on what you decide.  Very interesting for sure!

Raymont

Have you considered buying and selling options before jumping into daytrades? At least with options you have some (limited) time for the market/stock to move your way. Of course, I thought I would be make money at options.. Yeah, I hit a few, but overall.. big loser.  I'll stay long from here on out. Still want to take risk/gamble? then check out FAZ and FAS.. derivative offerings that move 3x what the market does.. (e.g. market goes up 1%, FAZ goes up 3% and FAS goes down 3%). 

RedSkip

@Raymont  Yes, I have calls and puts out there.  Just not liquid enough for me, have to wait for the contract date to expire or get close before any real movement.  Perhaps I'm just too impatient for investment type trades.

Foghorn

Buy and hold.

Buy and hold.

Get rich slow.

Beachbum28

I'm a long term invester try to hold stocks for over 1 year for lower tax rate, I play with power companies for dividends, industrials currently on Arnc she had a nice run today but I'm not gonna sell and biotech 

RRP

Foghorn said:

Buy and hold.

Buy and hold.

Get rich slow.

I agree and I've been doing it for 51 years now. I got started when I was 21 and back then I could only scrape up enough to buy 5 shares of this and 10 of that and used my overtime checks for the money! My rationale was had I not worked overtime I wouldn't have that money so why not spend it smartly instead of foolishly! 

Grillin_beers

I day traded for two years after college.  I had a nice inheritance so I was able to make a go out of it.  I did well but the constant swings in fortune proved to be too much for me.  I still invest but I take a long view of the market.  I follow Warren Buffets mantra of only buying a stock that I would hold for ten years.  It seems to be working for me.  

Wolfpack

RedSkip said:

@Raymont  Yes, I have calls and puts out there.  Just not liquid enough for me, have to wait for the contract date to expire or get close before any real movement.  Perhaps I'm just too impatient for investment type trades.

Vegas?

RedSkip

@Wolfpack Although I agree it's very similar to gambling, not sure I'd do well when mixed with booze.