Sharpen a $1 knife

HeavyG

Discussions about which knife to buy or how to sharpen them are frequent topics here.

I've always felt it is more important to keep whatever knives you have properly sharpened than to fret over what steel they are made from or how cool they look or how much they cost. While I do have a few very expensive knives the knives I use most are less than $25 apiece. Never been in a dollar store but I may have to  stop into one and see what I can get knife wise.

In any case, I came across this video which was posted today that really demonstrates what a good sharpening will do for even a "crappy" knife and thought it might be of interest to some of us:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dFFEBnY0Bo#oo

BilZol

I cannot sharpen knives. I have tried. I send my Emersons back to the manufacturer to sharpen and just replace my Sams Club knives when they get dull. One day I'll find someone to teach me how to do it right. 

lousubcap

Thanks for the post-I use stones and as with anything, the more you practice/use the better you get.  I have never gotten to the video presented edge but improve with every undertaking.  FWIW-

GrateEggspectations

Just did my four favourite knives with a water stone and am so glad I did. To all those who are contemplating it, it's worth investing the time to learn.

Sharp knives not only make the kitchen duties all the more enjoyable, but somewhat counterintuitively, they also make the task of cutting much safer!

Botch

That thievin' bastid paid for a damn dollar knife with a washer!  
 
I use a series of diamond stones, and finally an 8000-grit Japanese waterstone, on my plane blades and chisels in my woodshop, but just use commercial sharpening and "steeling" on my kitchen knives.  Have a "ChefsChoice" electric grinder for my next sharpening; maybe I'll have to try the waterstone for final honing and see what happens (I haven't tried the paper sheet test, but I can shave my arm hair with my plane blades, freshly sharpened).  

bboulier

I have used Arkansas stones (work well, but very time intensive), ceramic stones, the ozitech sharpener, and others.   A few months ago I bought a Chef's Choice 15 Trizor electric sharpener on sale.  Works great. Use a home made leather strop every other week to keep the knives honed.  Have not needed to use the electric sharpener since the initial sharpening.  Now I use the Chef's choice device to sharpen my children's and neighbor's knives and give a leather strop as a present.

HeavyG

Botch said:

That thievin' bastid paid for a damn dollar knife with a washer!  
 
I use a series of diamond stones, and finally an 8000-grit Japanese waterstone, on my plane blades and chisels in my woodshop, but just use commercial sharpening and "steeling" on my kitchen knives.  Have a "ChefsChoice" electric grinder for my next sharpening; maybe I'll have to try the waterstone for final honing and see what happens (I haven't tried the paper sheet test, but I can shave my arm hair with my plane blades, freshly sharpened).  

Since you're also a woodworker have you ever seen any of the videos of the Japanese competitions where they use their planes and try to get the thinnest/longest continuous shaving? Those events are pretty awesome.

Lit

Agree. I have a $10 or so calphalon Santorum that I had ruined used those electric sharpeners so I did pretty much what this guy did and changed the angle and poliahed it. It stays really sharp for a couple uses and that's about it. The soft metal just can't hold those angles. Sharpening is key though.

SGH

BilZol said:

I cannot sharpen knives. I have tried.
My brother, I assure you that you can. It is by no means brain surgery. If it was, I couldn't do it. You simply need to sit down with someone who is proficient at it and let them explain the "whys" of what they are doing. It's honestly not that difficult at all. 


One day I'll find someone to teach me how to do it right.

If you ever find yourself just this side of Biloxi, come by the house. I will gladly show you what I know. It won't take long because I don't know very much

  

Smokin_Trout

I do an OK job at best. But I don't stop trying.
My brother was helping me remove fat from a bunch of pork butts, complained how dull the knife was, until he gashed a finger open. 

Photo Egg

But is it sharp enough to skin a cat...anyone can cut a defenseless sheet of paper.lol

fishlessman

cool way to open water bottles i need to try that

JustineCaseyFeldown

there's snobbery in all things really.  and almost always based on some truth (some things ARE better made than others).

but at the end of the day, the fundamentals count more than the esoterics.

i can certainly believe a one-dollar knife can be made sharp as that. 

the edge may not last, but that's a different thing.

stainless knives get b!tch slapped for not having as long-lasting an edge as carbon steel.  but it's two sides of the same coin.  a long lasting edge is harder steel, and takes more effort to sharpen.  you sharpen less frequently, but with a bit more attention.

cutco gets grief for being thin stamped junk, but they have their specific user in mind, and those users get exactly what they need for exactly the price the market will bear.

i collect books, and run into a lot of bookbinders.  they make their own knives out of solid hunks of all sorts of metals.  some make lifting knives from hacksaw blades even.

they sharpen them to a level that chef's knife aficionados might flirt with.  tools of their trade, and made from pretty humble stock. they'd shrug at the idea that a carbon steel knife has a long lasting edge, because they sharpen these things almost constantly anyway. 

hell, i got one of these myself. https://jeffpeachey.com/tag/leather-paring-knife/    i'm sorry it doesn't have a (cosmetic) damascened veneer on the blade. and I opted for the leather handle.

but it's sharper than anything i have ever handled.  the leather doesn't even stretch when you move the blade through it. and leather stretches if you look at it. moce your finger lightly along your skin.  the skin stretches. now imagine a 3/6" thick piece of steel cutting into your skin, but so sharp, so polished, the skin doesn't drag.

it all comes down to what you are looking to get out of a tool and how proficient you are at maintaining it, or how willing you are to maintain it.

just because this guy's knife only cost a dollar doesn't mean he is less of a man/cook/craftsman/whatever than the guy who is on a waiting list for a Kramer

fishlessman

JustineCaseyFeldown said:

there's snobbery in all things really.  and almost always based on some truth (some things ARE better made than others).

but at the end of the day, the fundamentals count more than the esoterics.

i can certainly believe a one-dollar knife can be made sharp as that. 

the edge may not last, but that's a different thing.

stainless knives get b!tch slapped for not having as long-lasting an edge as carbon steel.  but it's two sides of the same coin.  a long lasting edge is harder steel, and takes more effort to sharpen.  you sharpen less frequently, but with a bit more attention.

cutco gets grief for being thin stamped junk, but they have their specific user in mind, and those users get exactly what they need for exactly the price the market will bear.

i collect books, and run into a lot of bookbinders.  they make their own knives out of solid hunks of all sorts of metals.  some make lifting knives from hacksaw blades even.

they sharpen them to a level that chef's knife aficionados might flirt with.  tools of their trade, and made from pretty humble stock. they'd shrug at the idea that a carbon steel knife has a long lasting edge, because they sharpen these things almost constantly anyway. 

hell, i got one of these myself. https://jeffpeachey.com/tag/leather-paring-knife/    i'm sorry it doesn't have a (cosmetic) damascened veneer on the blade. and I opted for the leather handle.

but it's sharper than anything i have ever handled.  the leather doesn't even stretch when you move the blade through it. and leather stretches if you look at it. moce your finger lightly along your skin.  the skin stretches. now imagine a 3/6" thick piece of steel cutting into your skin, but so sharp, so polished, the skin doesn't drag.

it all comes down to what you are looking to get out of a tool and how proficient you are at maintaining it, or how willing you are to maintain it.

just because this guy's knife only cost a dollar doesn't mean he is less of a man/cook/craftsman/whatever than the guy who is on a waiting list for a Kramer

when i was about 10 dad came home with those big hack saw blades, they make a great blade.  that was back when a ten year old could carry a 10 inch knife around town the handle eventually broke off playing chicken. dad still has his, that thing takes on an unbelievable edge

Mad_Wally

Yes you can sharpen a 1 dollar knife. Personally  I find it a waste of time and money (sharpening stones). The edge will not last and so it must be done often. Usually those knives have very poor geometry and ergonomics making cutting a pain.
Why not invest in a quality knife and make your life a lot better?

Focker

Holding my POS stamped Wusthof beater, there is a huge difference in confidence, and one can feel the limitations before it even hits the board, and this is directly after Japanese stone treatment.  After only several gentle uses, the edge is lost.  The water bottle trick is cool though.

My VG10s all see what I would consider moderate use.  I sharpen them.......wait for it..........ANNUALLY.  There really is no comparison, to quality German or Japanese, in my book.  I wonder how many times that dollar store stamped POS would have to hit the stones in one year?

If you cook, I mean really truly prep and cook, learn how to sharpen, and invest in a good steel by many of the brands out there.  

I don't see any snobbery in making your experience much more safer, easier, and enjoyable, by investing in better steel. 

gdenby

My experience w. .25 knives is that I could get them to slice paper, but after just 4 -5 slices thru a pork loin, they were dull again. Not worth the trouble.

I have a couple of $5 knives that are worth the trouble.

But can I ever get them to where I can dice a couple pounds of onions and not tear up? No. They are too thick.

So, right tool for the job for me is a well tempered thin blade, or a very hard thin core blade w. a softer cladding.

JustineCaseyFeldown

Sorry, but It's always a "to each his own" thing

the best book is one that is hand made and costs around1500.  There is no debate. In comparison, every other book is utter trash

Except i'd be an idiot, a snob, and a poser to suggest that's the right book for every person. Even while being entirely correct on all the technical points. They really are better, and they really cost that much. 

if you know what you are dealing with, on anything of high grade quality, and if you appreciate it, it's worth every penny. And a better investment than a four dollar paperback (or knife)

Fwiw, wusthof isn't stamped. Cutco is. Chicago cutlery is. Wusthof is drop forged. If yer gonna denigrate, familarity with the subject is helpful. Like the 'japanese' knives which are nothing more than a uselessly thin cosmetic veneer wrapped around a solid drop forged core, which more than a few have here. Not quite what they think they are). If that damascened steel isn't all the way thru your knife, you don't have a knife which benefits from the idea of pattern welding. You have one that LOOKS like it is pattern welded. A glorified wusthof

my book analogy indicates i'm a book snob. But it really is the far superior book.  And if i wanted, i could mock the 'mouthbreathers' who don't spend 1500 on a book or can't appreciate it. 

But i don't. That'd make me an ahole. Or more of one, if you already think i am one. I don't think people are morons because they don't enjoy the same thing i do, or join me in the fetish. 

And anyway, i'd bet most don't care, and are capable of getting great results without the affectation of "preferring"'a handmade book. Like knives. I appreciate the fancy stuff. Just don't need one. And i am pretty sure i do ok carving a turkey with just a simple poor man's chef's knife

Lit

JustineCaseyFeldown said:

Sorry, but It's always a "to each his own" thing

the best book is one that is hand made and costs around1500.  There is no debate. In comparison, every other book is utter trash

Except i'd be an idiot, a snob, and a poser to suggest that's the right book for every person. Even while being entirely correct on all the technical points. They really are better, and they really cost that much. 

if you know what you are dealing with, on anything of high grade quality, and if you appreciate it, it's worth every penny. And a better investment than a four dollar paperback (or knife)

Fwiw, wusthof isn't stamped. Cutco is. Chicago cutlery is. Wusthof is drop forged. If yer gonna denigrate, familarity with the subject is helpful. Like the 'japanese' knives which are nothing more than a uselessly thin cosmetic veneer wrapped around a solid drop forged core, which more than a few have here. Not quite what they think they are). If that damascened steel isn't all the way thru your knife, you don't have a knife which benefits from the idea of pattern welding. You have one that LOOKS like it is pattern welded. A glorified wusthof

my book analogy indicates i'm a book snob. But it really is the far superior book.  And if i wanted, i could mock the 'mouthbreathers' who don't spend 1500 on a book or can't appreciate it. 

But i don't. That'd make me an ahole. Or more of one, if you already think i am one. I don't think people are morons because they don't enjoy the same thing i do, or join me in the fetish. 

And anyway, i'd bet most don't care, and are capable of getting great results without the affectation of "preferring"'a handmade book. Like knives. I appreciate the fancy stuff. Just don't need one. And i am pretty sure i do ok carving a turkey with just a simple poor man's chef's knife

Actually the soft outside does have a use it stops the solid core from chipping. Like you said familiarity with the subject is helpful.

Lit

Oh and the Japanese knives are harder and sharper due to the lesser angle their steels can hold but whatever they are knives so they are the same thing right.

Focker

Lit said:

JustineCaseyFeldown said:

Sorry, but It's always a "to each his own" thing

the best book is one that is hand made and costs around1500.  There is no debate. In comparison, every other book is utter trash

Except i'd be an idiot, a snob, and a poser to suggest that's the right book for every person. Even while being entirely correct on all the technical points. They really are better, and they really cost that much. 

if you know what you are dealing with, on anything of high grade quality, and if you appreciate it, it's worth every penny. And a better investment than a four dollar paperback (or knife)

Fwiw, wusthof isn't stamped. Cutco is. Chicago cutlery is. Wusthof is drop forged. If yer gonna denigrate, familarity with the subject is helpful. Like the 'japanese' knives which are nothing more than a uselessly thin cosmetic veneer wrapped around a solid drop forged core, which more than a few have here. Not quite what they think they are). If that damascened steel isn't all the way thru your knife, you don't have a knife which benefits from the idea of pattern welding. You have one that LOOKS like it is pattern welded. A glorified wusthof

my book analogy indicates i'm a book snob. But it really is the far superior book.  And if i wanted, i could mock the 'mouthbreathers' who don't spend 1500 on a book or can't appreciate it. 

But i don't. That'd make me an ahole. Or more of one, if you already think i am one. I don't think people are morons because they don't enjoy the same thing i do, or join me in the fetish. 

And anyway, i'd bet most don't care, and are capable of getting great results without the affectation of "preferring"'a handmade book. Like knives. I appreciate the fancy stuff. Just don't need one. And i am pretty sure i do ok carving a turkey with just a simple poor man's chef's knife

Actually the soft outside does have a use it stops the solid core from chipping. Like you said familiarity with the subject is helpful.

I agree.
My Gourmet chefs and Silverpoint serrated, are in fact, stamped.  You can google the Silverpoint.

JustineCaseyFeldown said:

Sorry, but It's always a "to each his own" thing

the best book is one that is hand made and costs around1500.  There is no debate. In comparison, every other book is utter trash

Except i'd be an idiot, a snob, and a poser to suggest that's the right book for every person. Even while being entirely correct on all the technical points. They really are better, and they really cost that much. 

if you know what you are dealing with, on anything of high grade quality, and if you appreciate it, it's worth every penny. And a better investment than a four dollar paperback (or knife)

Fwiw, wusthof isn't stamped. Cutco is. Chicago cutlery is. Wusthof is drop forged. If yer gonna denigrate, familarity with the subject is helpful. Like the 'japanese' knives which are nothing more than a uselessly thin cosmetic veneer wrapped around a solid drop forged core, which more than a few have here. Not quite what they think they are). If that damascened steel isn't all the way thru your knife, you don't have a knife which benefits from the idea of pattern welding. You have one that LOOKS like it is pattern welded. A glorified wusthof

my book analogy indicates i'm a book snob. But it really is the far superior book.  And if i wanted, i could mock the 'mouthbreathers' who don't spend 1500 on a book or can't appreciate it. 

But i don't. That'd make me an ahole. Or more of one, if you already think i am one. I don't think people are morons because they don't enjoy the same thing i do, or join me in the fetish. 

And anyway, i'd bet most don't care, and are capable of getting great results without the affectation of "preferring"'a handmade book. Like knives. I appreciate the fancy stuff. Just don't need one. And i am pretty sure i do ok carving a turkey with just a simple poor man's chef's knife

This book vs knife analogy isn't a good one Jeff.

Other than aesthetics, there is no difference reading one vs the other.  It is about collectibility, rarity, one offs, etc.  Unless the words are printed bigger on the fancy ones.


Does the fancy book perform better, vs a standard edition?

For the record, I don't think you're an a hole....got a lot of respect for you actually, and this hasn't been a snobbery attempt..at you, or anyone else using inferior steel.  Just trying to help a brother or two out.  I do think, you've got some butthurt towards the Japanese steel.

I could struggle, cutting a watermelon with a cheap, flimsy, stamped blade.  But holding it, tells me otherwise.

Have you used all of the steels in discussion?
You seemed like such an expert on the Wusthofs.

JustineCaseyFeldown

Lit said:

JustineCaseyFeldown said:

Sorry, but It's always a "to each his own" thing

the best book is one that is hand made and costs around1500.  There is no debate. In comparison, every other book is utter trash

Except i'd be an idiot, a snob, and a poser to suggest that's the right book for every person. Even while being entirely correct on all the technical points. They really are better, and they really cost that much. 

if you know what you are dealing with, on anything of high grade quality, and if you appreciate it, it's worth every penny. And a better investment than a four dollar paperback (or knife)

Fwiw, wusthof isn't stamped. Cutco is. Chicago cutlery is. Wusthof is drop forged. If yer gonna denigrate, familarity with the subject is helpful. Like the 'japanese' knives which are nothing more than a uselessly thin cosmetic veneer wrapped around a solid drop forged core, which more than a few have here. Not quite what they think they are). If that damascened steel isn't all the way thru your knife, you don't have a knife which benefits from the idea of pattern welding. You have one that LOOKS like it is pattern welded. A glorified wusthof

my book analogy indicates i'm a book snob. But it really is the far superior book.  And if i wanted, i could mock the 'mouthbreathers' who don't spend 1500 on a book or can't appreciate it. 

But i don't. That'd make me an ahole. Or more of one, if you already think i am one. I don't think people are morons because they don't enjoy the same thing i do, or join me in the fetish. 

And anyway, i'd bet most don't care, and are capable of getting great results without the affectation of "preferring"'a handmade book. Like knives. I appreciate the fancy stuff. Just don't need one. And i am pretty sure i do ok carving a turkey with just a simple poor man's chef's knife

Actually the soft outside does have a use it stops the solid core from chipping. Like you said familiarity with the subject is helpful.

sorry lit. that sounds logical, but it is wrong, and a fallback.  that's justification for only slapping a cosmetic veneer on there.  that veneer does nothing but sell knives to people who don't know 1.) why it looks that way and 2.) what it originally was for

the original thinking (rationale) was that of the available steels, you couldn't have one be both stiff (hold an edge) and be soft (i.e. not brittle, prone to shatter )

if you have been paying attention as these "japanese" knives came on the market, you'll remember that the first ones were very expensive, because the pattern welding ran all the way through.  they are based on sword making technology, where a brittle and a soft metal, two otherwise incongruous aspects (can't have both in one simple metal), could be combined forcibly into ONE blade.

mixing the two molten steels doesn't work. so, they forge them together by, well, i'm pretty sure you know how. if you don't, wel...

but damn.  tough way to make and sell a lot of knives.

what to do?

ah!

let's make some pattern welded stuff, wrap it around a stainless core (or high carbon core, sure).

that way you can sell them for a couple hundred cheaper.  and you can still sell stainless (easier care), or the high carbon (for the wannabes who like to brag about high carbon, but don't want to really put it on the line)

the damascened look in the vast majority of these affordable knives is useless.

but if anyone asks, we'll just say it is softer and protects the thing from chipping (or whatever line you were trying to feed me).

you see, the pattern is actually soft and brittle itself.  so, that logic makes no sense.

anyway.

there isn't a knife here on this forum that any one of us couldn't go out and buy tomorrow if we thought our manhood was riding on it. 

some of us don't think our manhood is caught up in that kinda stuff.  if it were, i'd get a much better knife than a mass produced one anyway.

personally, the food is what counts for me. and that the knife fits MY hand, an suits MY skillset (or lack of skills).

buying a knife to keep up with the joneses.  not my style.

in fact, the last three knives i think i acquired, except for a slicer from santa last year, were sent to me by the knife company itself.

Lit

Layering and laminating of tool steels for knives is nothing new and even a few modern factories are using laminated steel blades, under the Japanese moniker of san mai, which simply means three layer. In Finland, Norway, and Sweden, this is a very old and traditional method of knife making. Typically, a hard, perhaps even brittle core of high carbon steel is laminated over with a lower carbon or sometimes stainless steel. This is supposed to make a hard cutting edge and a more flexible and tougher exterior. As the knife is sharpened, it is the inner core of steel that is exposed at the cutting edge. In ancient Japanese blades, other configurations were used; all were attempts to have a tough, resilient and somewhat flexible shock resistant blade that has increased wear resistance at the cutting edge.

GATraveller

I need to learn how to effectively sharpen knives.  I have both Wusthof and Cutco but they all need to be sharpened.  

gdenby

GATraveller said:

I need to learn how to effectively sharpen knives.  I have both Wusthof and Cutco but they all need to be sharpened.  

Wusthof should not be a problem. As far as I know, Cutco have a special serrated edge, which is why they offer factory re-sharpening.

The issue for un-serrated knives is what angle the steel can hold. For the last 100 years, or so, standard western kitchen knives have been made from "stainless" steel. They are corrosion resistant, and so good when used w. wet and greasy foods. Less likely on the whole to chip at the edge. Obversely, more likely to bend, and even roll over. Thus, the need to be sharpened at a higher angle, and the need for frequent steeling to re-align the edge.

One needs to know the quality of the steel, and match the edge bevel w. what kind of use is required.

Standard practice until fairly recently was that Western style knives should have a 1 side bevel of no less than 20 degrees. Many older Japanese style blades can be keener, down around 15 degrees or less, but they are made of non-stainless steel, and so can rust in just a few minutes.

Both Japanese and Western (at this point more or less "German" shaped) are using better steels that combine both corrosion resistance and the ability to take keener edges.

Side note, they way the different bevels work when cutting is important. The "rocking" style used w. standard Western blades uses leverage to compensate for the resistance the high blade edge angles cause. The "draw" or "push" cuts from Japanese and older style French knives are possible because of the low angles.

Carolina Q

GATraveller said:

I need to learn how to effectively sharpen knives.  I have both Wusthof and Cutco but they all need to be sharpened.  

I think Cutco sharpens at no charge. 

HeavyG

gdenby said:

GATraveller said:

I need to learn how to effectively sharpen knives.  I have both Wusthof and Cutco but they all need to be sharpened.  

Wusthof should not be a problem. As far as I know, Cutco have a special serrated edge, which is why they offer factory re-sharpening...

Not all Cutco knives have a serrated type of edge. They have a series of knives with what they call their Double-D edge that is serrated-like and probably best left to be resharpened by Cutco.

HeavyG

Carolina Q said:

GATraveller said:

I need to learn how to effectively sharpen knives.  I have both Wusthof and Cutco but they all need to be sharpened.  

I think Cutco sharpens at no charge. 

Owners go have to pay for shipping/handling but yeah the price of the resharpening is already included in their high initial price.

Just like an Egg and "free" lifetime warranty on ceramic parts.

Carolina Q

I bought a plane iron from Ron Hock a few years ago. Was planning to make a smoothing plane à la James Krenov, but somehow still haven't done it. I was looking at his website today and see that he sells a pre-sharpened chef knife (and a couple of others). You add the handle. 8" full tang high carbon steel is $70. Tempting...

http://www.hocktools.com/products/kckp.html