Dry brine boneless ribeye roast- 1st attempt

booksw

Today is Tuesday and I have 11 people coming to dinner this Friday (9 eat beef).  I spent a good bit of time this past weekend reading this forum, and the links it sent me to, and came up with the plan to dry brine a boneless ribeye roast (choice).  I looked at the prime at Costco but not only did the price scare me but also they were too big for me to tackle as my first try (the smallest one was 14 pounds).  I had read some people say to dry brine for 4 days and some say for 1 day.  So, today it is Tuesday morning and I just trimmed and salted my roast and put it in the fridge.  I will take it out on Friday and season it and put it on the egg- I guess Friday early afternoon- so that is a bit more than 3 days.  I trimmed it as close to the meat as I could, including as much of the silver skin I could get off.  I was surprised that it sort of unraveled as I was trimming it so I tied it up after I salted it (kosher salt, sprinkled from up highish to get an even coat).  I lined a shelf in my fridge with parchmant and then I put the salted roast on a rack on the paper and then I draped another piece of parchment over it to protect it from other stuff in the fridge.  Now I will aim to just enjoy the journey and I would appreciate any words of wisdom from all you sages.

Thatgrimguy

Beef is fine to salt early like that. I find that pork can take on a hammy texture.

I would do it at about 350 indirect and not sear it. With you giving it 4 days to dry out and salting the exterior you should get a great even browning just from roasting it. I like to cover mine in EVOO and salt/pepper just before throwing it on the grill.  

fishlessman

wouldnt salting for 4 days give the exterior a corned beef flavor or maybe the salting is lighter here.

booksw

Thanks @Thatgrimguy !  I have seen people say 350 and some say 225- low and slow.  I have some concern that it isn't too marbled so maybe the low and slow would be better?  I also bought "Penzey's prime rib seasonings" I read about on this forum- I was going to maybe cover it with olive oil (or mustard?) and then the Penzey's. I am leaning away from the sear- especially if it is nicely browned at the end of the cook- which I imagine it will be.  I love to TRex a ribeye but then I can do the high heat sear at the beginning of the cook, before my guests arrive (and the wine starts flowing).  I have read so much for and against the sear of the ribeye roast, and I think it would only add to the chaos as everyone is arriving, which I am hoping to minimize.  I am also thinking to pull at 130?

Darby_Crenshaw

that amount of salting can't cure the meat, not past the surface anyway, and that surface will be smoked and browned as well after cooking.

heck, the smoke ring is virtually cured meat anyway, by definition, and no one ever complains that gives it a hammy taste (nitrite)

it won't be hammy or anything negative ('curing' related).

looks like you may have trimmed the fat cap off it.  i hope not. that is gold (lit. and fig.) when it browns and crisps up

lose the paper.  it isn't doing anything for you, and you don't want crossed signals.  if you want it to dry a bit at the surface, it won't where the paper touches it.

if it is a 'wife' thing (as most meat-left-in-the-fridge issues seems to be), then i can't help you. 

cooking at higher roasting temps versus lower temps has nothing to do with marbling or "low and slow" as we do with pork butts, etc.   what lower temps do is make for a longer more drawn out and gentler cook, with less carryover and more chance of taking it off at the desired temperature (internal).  it also yields a more uniform cross section, rather than a rind of overcooked surrounding a smaller core of medium-rare.

but you can cook it either way.

dried for a few days like this you will have a nice brown exterior at lower temps or higher.  i never recommend direct searing, especially with a fat cap, but that's personal preference.  seems showy, and creates work, and i seriously have no idea what is gained by it, but it is very popular.

you can start high temp (indirect) and lower temps and finishing cooking at say 250-300.  that's tough in a BGE though.  that's a method betters suited for the electric oven.*

or you can start low and then crank temps at the end (also indirect), which some say gives a great crust.

but you get a good crust at lower temps too.  there's no one method that is the only way.

do what is easiest to do when you have guests and wine and side dishes and a wife and conversation...

for me, that's a 250 roast for a few hours.  on, shut the dome, cook it, open the dome, rest, serve.  zero hassle

no reason to turn the easiest cook on the BGE into the most difficult
--------

EDIT   *actually, it isn't so tough to sear first and then roast cooler, but requires some finagling and small amount of planning/experience.

1.) light a fire with OLD lump (no VOCs).  keep the lid open, and lower vent SHUT.  this gives you a hot fire at the top of the lump.

2.) direct sear the roast (if that's what you want, i don't direct sear rib eye, due to the fat cap).  i find this is better for tenderloin beef, with no exterior fat.  put the meat on one side of the grid, and roll it to the other over time as it sears.  with an air dried roast you will not have any sticking.  with a fresh roast, it will take maybe a minute to 90 seconds before you can roll it to the next position.

3.) when seared, open the lower vent, take out the grid and toss in the plate setter, replace the grid, and shut the dome.  rest the meat for a few minutes (you want it to stop cooking anyway).  the platesetter, chokes lower vent, and the cold dome (because it was open the whole time) will help bring down temps.  wait until the crap smoke stops though, because you just choked the fire and it will smolder.  that's ok, because the meat needs to chill out.

4.) toss the roast on and roast slow until you hit your target temp (which is below desired final temp on your plate).

there will be less carryover because the roast was cruising slowly before it came off.  searing at the end drives a lot of heat at the roast at the very end, and your carryove is higher, so pull it off even lower

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO SCREW UP THIS COOK (unless you overcook).

sear first, sear last, no sear, higher roast temp, lower roast temp....  they all work, they all result ion a great meal.  unless you take it to the ridiculously recommended 160 as written on the package.  just don't over cook.

Thatgrimguy

I like higher temps because I get a better browned exterior than I do low and slow. I find that 250 in an egg won't give me the crust I desire before the inside is done.

booksw

Thanks @Darby_Crenshaw.  I DID cut off the fat cap so we will see.  I saved it in the fridge so I can possibly tie it back on.  I cut if off after reading that it would block the air dry process (the same article also said to cut off the silverskin under the fat before salting for the same reason).  I took the paper off the roast after reading your post (I had it on there mostly to not bug my husband or my vegan teenage daughter, but too bad for them).  - I am going to use a leave-in thermometer and take it off at 130.  If I do sear, I will follow your instructions. "IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO SCREW UP THIS COOK (unless you overcook)."- those words will help me a lot...

I have never done one of these roasts before @Thatgrimguy, so I will learn about the browning.  I do have experience with many overnight briskets that all had a great crust after very low and very slow but I know this is a different ball game.

Darby_Crenshaw

Thatgrimguy said:

I like higher temps because I get a better browned exterior than I do low and slow. I find that 250 in an egg won't give me the crust I desire before the inside is done.

i dry age or at least dry it in the fridge a few days.  never have a problem with getting a brown crust.

but not many people dry or dry age. 

this guy's roast will be in the fridge all week uncovered.

the restaurant "slow roasted" prime rib served everywhere, usually with a great crust, is generally only roasted at 200-225 or os, never seared.  and the crust is always there.

it's just how you approach what it is you want for a result.

i'll agree that a good strategy for browning is to sear (direct or indirect) at high temps.  but it isn't required for a brown crust.  many ways to skin this cat. 

it's confused a bit by using the term "searing" when talking about a roast.  older references (Pepin, Child, etc.) will talk about a sear, but they mean high temp in an oven (indirect, in our case).  being grill owners, we usually mean direct, over the coals.

that's led to the thinking that a rib roast needs to be directly seared (over colas) to 'sear' it.  it doesn't  you can go high heat indirect at some point in the cook and still sear.  that yields browning.  the direct sear gives you browning and blackening.  and soemtimes it botches the crust (if you roll it prematurely and it sticks for example).

it is possible to get a brown crust without searing, or with it.  without drying, or with it. 

big picture, i find slow roasting gives me absolutely everything i want, and the best cross section.  and it is a two step cook.  close egg, and open it when done.

that's me.  whatever others do is fine.  but my method doesn't make yours wrong.  and yours doesn't make mine wrong.

just tryna provide  information and options here, not opinions. 

Darby_Crenshaw

booksw said:

Thanks @Darby_Crenshaw.  I DID cut off the fat cap so we will see.  I saved it in the fridge so I can possibly tie it back on.  I cut if off after reading that it would block the air dry process (the same article also said to cut off the silverskin under the fat before salting for the same reason).  I took the paper off the roast after reading your post (I had it on there mostly to not bug my husband or my vegan teenage daughter, but too bad for them).  - I am going to use a leave-in thermometer and take it off at 130.  If I do sear, I will follow your instructions. "IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO SCREW UP THIS COOK (unless you overcook)."- those words will help me a lot...

fat doesn't block the drying.  it's in fact WHY you dry. 

the big thing about a prime rib roast (aside from the meat itself) is the fat cap.  we trim it sometimes to a uniform thickness, but i don't know anyone advocating taking it entirely off.  that's what gives you crust.

tying it back on won't really work, because when you carve it, it will just be a separate strip of fat on the plate, and the meat it was cut from will have no crust, just a steamed surface.

don't panic or worry. it will still be excellent, and no one will know really.  tenderloin doesn't have a fat cap either, and the meat surfaces brown instead.  all good.

silverskin can somewhat slow the salt, but it is permeable too.  i just take it off as a rule because it is tough and flavorless and undesirable.  always take that off. the fat though... fat is desirable.  again though, at this point, don't turn back.  you can't tie on or  adhere that fat unless cen-tex shoots you some meat glue. 

Thatgrimguy

I would definitely go with @Darby_Crenshaw advice. His experience goes much further than mine.

jeffwit

I cooked one of these for Easter this year and followed what these guys are saying. Dried in the fridge, did a herb rub, and cooked at 325-350 to desired IT. Probably the best meal I've ever made on the egg. Just a word of warning, you will get quite a bit of carryover cooking while resting, so pull early so you don't overshoot your desired IT. 

jeffwit

P

Darby_Crenshaw

jeffwit said:

I cooked one of these for Easter this year and followed what these guys are saying. Dried in the fridge, did a herb rub, and cooked at 325-350 to desired IT. Probably the best meal I've ever made on the egg. Just a word of warning, you will get quite a bit of carryover cooking while resting, so pull early so you don't overshoot your desired IT. 

i found out too the hard way that carryover on a big hunk of meat like that just keeps climbing. i did a roast at a high temp because i didn't plan well, and got a beautiful lloking roast.  rested it, and ate a half hour later after making sides.  the thing was probably 175 when we sliced it.  like slicing a balsa wood log.

this is also the reason i go a hundred degrees lower.  225-250 will allow you to pull the roast and let it sit for an hour or so without nearly as much carryover as a roast done a hundred degrees hotter, or with a final sear. 325 is still considered 'slow' by some, but it is still a hundred degrees hotter than true slow-roasted prime rib.

never tent it, and never put a towel over it to "keep it from getting cold".  you WANT it to cool off.  will be juicier too.  less juice on the plate the cooler the meat is.  the dirty little secret about resting isn't that the juices are "redistributing", it's that meat is a sponge.  the colder it is, the more water it holds.  you want a balance between juice that runs freely when you cut it, and to much of that. too cold, no juiciness.  to hot, too much on the plate.

think of it this way.  when raw, the meat has the MOST moisture it can possibly have, right?

but when you cut the meat raw, it doesn't leave water all over the cutting board.  there's no juiciness, yet is has all of it's water.  and when you slice a cold hunk off the cooked left-overs, it also doesn't lead to juice all over the place.  cold roast beef doesn't have "juices".  it's firm and cold.

but the juices are there.

heat it up.  there's the juice again.

so when you rest, you are purposefully allowing the meat to cool back down to a reasonable point, so it won't run out all over the plate.  if it gets too cold, the juices won't flow at all (as with cold leftovers).  McGee talks about this a bit more scientifically. i'm just tryna paint a word picture, but it doesn't always work.

short story (too late for that!): when resting, juices don't redistribute.  they don't move from the exterior to the interior. they don't go anywhere.  but as it cools, the structure of the meat (denatured proteins play a role) is more like a sponge.  and the colder that sponge, the less free-running the liquid is within it. the better able it is to retain that internal moisture.

believe it or not, you're trying to let the roast get cold enough so that some juice comes out when you chew (or on the plate), so you perceive it as "juicey", while enough remains in the meat to keep it tender and pliable (versus hard and dry).

raw meat isn't juicey because there's no cell damage to allow the water out. overcooked meat isn't juicey because there was too much cell damage, and all the water is out. 

total goldilocks situation.  gotta find the sweet spot.

Darby_Crenshaw

Thatgrimguy said:

I would definitely go with @Darby_Crenshaw advice. His experience goes much further than mine.

no no no man.  i AGREED with you.

see? that's the thing.  either way works, just pick one and stick with it.

people say "stike writes way too much, i can't read all that bullsh!t"

so i stop giving long answers.  and then it's

"the dude just says (often contradictory-sounding )stuff without explaining it."
can't win. hahaha


so. again,.  big picture.

this is the easiest cook on the egg.  the only issue is overthinking, and flinching or trying to reinvent the wheel.  it's a classic cook.  just pick a method and do it.  don't pick eight methods and cherry pick the coolest sounding parts from each* , and then get nervous and second guess and try to hit the undo button (i.e. trim off stuff then tie it back on).

first time? follow. directions.  (anyone's)

*i swear every christmas it's "i bought a rib eye roast but not a big one because it's my first time.  i had the butcher cut off the ribs, then tie them back on, then i dry aged it, but only for four hours because i was nervous and my wife was afraid.  then i wrapped it in saran wrap for a week because i thought it was safer.  then i salted it, but think i added too much salt so i trimmed off the outer layer. then i seared it at 800, but then put in the platesetter and roasted at 400 for an hour but then remembered a guy said to go low so i did it at 200 but my fire went out.  what did i do wrong?"

booksw

@Thatgrimguy, @Darby_Crenshaw @jeffwit @fishlessman I appreciate everyone's discussion about this- it's what makes this forum so helpful.   My go-to advice is something that @lousubcap told me a couple of years ago- "enjoy the journey"- that's the bottom line.  I also bought a new cutting board with extra room for rib roast juice- being optimistic!

lousubcap

@booksw- been off the grid for a bit, but you are right to sort out the above-pick one and ride it home.  And definitely enjoy the journey.  With a good meat thermo this one is an easy cook to nail.  Go forth and have fun.

booksw

Thank you @lousubcap- I am happy to hear from you.  One question for you and for @Darby_Crenshaw and anyone else who may know - if I am aiming to take the roast off the grill at 7PM at 130 degrees (is that the best temp to take it off for medium rare-medium?), and cook it at 225 (using @Darby_Crenshaw "2 step process close egg and then open it when done") , what time should I start it...?  That is the only piece of the puzzle I haven't got a good idea about

Darby_Crenshaw

Tough call. 

I tend to take it off at 120-125. The ends will be crusted and fought over by those who like well done (or who like crust).

the next few slices will be medium-well. Then the middle ones tending toward medium-rare rare

if still underdone for some, you can toss a slice back on the grill or hide under au jus or gravy. Best advice to-date on this forum is fishlessman's: turn down the lights (dimmer switch). People who say they hate medium rare or rare will praise yours to high heaven when they can't see that it is rare

you can always cook it more if you need to. You can't uncook it though

lousubcap

I plan around 25-30 mins/lb at around 250*F on the calibrated dome to around 125*F, until length exceeds diameter then it doesn't matter.  
Here's a great link for more detailed info:
http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/1996/03/beef-standing-rib-roast-prime-rib.html  Enjoy the cook and eats.  

YukonRon

Best thread ever. Thank you!

booksw

As I am enjoying the small amount of cold leftovers with some straight up horseradish, I wanted to give you all a final report.  As you assured me- it was DELICIOUS.  I left it in the fridge from Tues to Fri and by Fri is was looking pretty shriveled- it was dryed out and bright red on the outside and literally shrunk.  But, I stayed faithful.  I set up the lump with one flame starter in the middle and set my Flame Boss to 225 at about 4 PM.  I coated the roast with a brush of olive oil and the Penzey's English Prime Rib Rub. I set the Egg up with a pan full of water like I do when I do an overnight brisket (I made an Au Jus separately in the house). I figured that way I could really just close the lid of the egg and forget about it. I put it on at about 4:45.  The first hour it went up from 35 degrees to 85 degrees.  I had planned to take it off at 125 but the next time I looked at it- about 6:45- it was 135 and I took it off and let it sit about an hour before we sliced it (no tenting, nothing- just sitting on the board.)  I bought this board because I was tired of the liquid spilling and wasting on the countertop.  Perfection.

lousubcap

Congrats on the cook and results.  Home-run for sure right there.  And beef with horseradish is a great combo.  
And a bit of info with the water-pan.  As long as it has liquid you are fine but should it all evaporate, then your temp will rise as the heat-sink (water) is gone.  But with a controller you likely don't have to worry til the controller decides to quit.  FWIW-

AEgger

I am trying my FB for the first time tomorrow. Do I start the fire and immediately put FB in OR do I get the fire at the right temp and then put FB in?

bgebrent

AEgger said:

I am trying my FB for the first time tomorrow. Do I start the fire and immediately put FB in OR do I get the fire at the right temp and then put FB in?

Get the fire to stable temp.  Great information above!

booksw

@AEgger- did it work out?  For low temp cooks, I light a small piece of flame starter at the center of my coals (in the bottom of a cup I made in the lump if I plan to add wood for smoking) and set my Flame Boss up right away with only the pit probe attached.  I use the daisy wheel with slit openings.  Hope that helps!

booksw

OK I am going to try this again.  This time I have a 6 lb choice roast from my local supermarket (on sale) and I think I am going to not trim it, salt it, air dry it from today to Sunday and then cook and serve XMas eve.   I usually serve brisket on XMas eve but I have too many balls in the air this year to pull off an over night cook...

booksw

Botch

Darby_Crenshaw said:  
Short story (too late for that!): when resting, juices don't redistribute.  they don't move from the exterior to the interior. they don't go anywhere.  but as it cools, the structure of the meat (denatured proteins play a role) is more like a sponge.  and the colder that sponge, the less free-running the liquid is within it. the better able it is to retain that internal moisture.

believe it or not, you're trying to let the roast get cold enough so that some juice comes out when you chew (or on the plate), so you perceive it as "juicey", while enough remains in the meat to keep it tender and pliable (versus hard and dry).

raw meat isn't juicey because there's no cell damage to allow the water out. overcooked meat isn't juicey because there was too much cell damage, and all the water is out. 

I wish you could send this to every damn chef, cookbook author, food magazine editor, and newspaper columnist in the country.  I am SO SICK of reading the phrase "allowing the juices to redistribute", it makes no sense!!!  Your description describes the situation so much better.  Thank You!
 
I'm also going to forego covering my roasts with foil, now that I understand better what's going on.  As an added plus, this should keep the crust more "crusty"!  

Eggdicted_Dawgfan

Man I miss Darby. I know some don’t like him but he is one of the most helpful and valuable guys to ever come across this forum. 

Eggdicted_Dawgfan

You got this @booksw these guys have given you some great advice above. Looking forward to seeing the end result. 

booksw

Eggdicted_Dawgfan said:

Man I miss Darby. I know some don’t like him but he is one of the most helpful and valuable guys to ever come across this forum. 

Yes.  Where the heck is he?  I was hoping maybe he just created another screen name and is still around...