Long time Egger, first time poster - Challenger Nest??

miniMAXd

I somewhat recently graduated from a wooden table to a metal Challenger Island.  I previously used the bge table nest in my old wooden table.  Currently my large is "Un-Nested" and sitting directly on metal, inside the Challenger table.  Is there a problem going with no nest?  I definitely like the look/height of no nest and prefer to go nestless. What are the downsides to not using a nest in a metal table?  My dealer also mentioned no gap was required.  Just curious if anybody had a metal table no nest horror story?  Thanks!!

cajunrph

The only thing I could think of is the heat transfer from the bottom of the Egg to the metal. I'd still think you'd want some air flow under the Egg. May be a grate or the ceramic feet. 

And welcome to the forum. 

miniMAXd

cajunrph said:

The only thing I could think of is the heat transfer from the bottom of the Egg to the metal. I'd still think you'd want some air flow under the Egg. May be a grate or the ceramic feet. 

And welcome to the forum. 

thanks for the welcome!  I guess I'm wondering why the air gap would be necessary?  The photo's in the catolog picture the egg without an air gap. Along with all the pictures on Challengers web site.    

55Kevy

I, too, have a Challenger cart.  When I did my first high temp (600F) cook, the egg started rocking about 1/4" when I opened the dome.  I suspect that heat transfer to the cart caused the cart surface to warp slightly.  The egg has been rock solid since, so apparently no permanent damage.  But I plan to get a nest or something before my next high temp.

1move

I would put it in a nest, I would be too worried about damaging the cart and its finish. 

bhedges1987

I have mine in a nest in my challenger.  I don't mind the height.  It feels a little high right now, but I'm used to cooking on a medium, with normal grate cooking level without a woo.  

Now I'm on a large, with a nest, in a cart, with a woo.  It's about perfect height.

I wouldn't risk damaging my cart for an extra 2" on the height.  

Jeepster47

Fire up the egg and cook a normal meal.  Then open the two doors under the egg and CAREFULLY feel the aluminum support under the egg.  With that, you can make an informed decision.  I checked out one at an egg fest ... then ordered a nest along with the Challenger cart. 

@pgprescott makes the nest a part of the deal when you buy a cart from his store.

miniMAXd

Jeepster47 said:

Fire up the egg and cook a normal meal.  Then open the two doors under the egg and CAREFULLY feel the aluminum support under the egg.  With that, you can make an informed decision.  I checked out one at an egg fest ... then ordered a nest along with the Challenger cart. 

@pgprescott makes the nest a part of the deal when you buy a cart from his store.

Thanks fellas!  Gonna kick back with the infer-red thermos this weekend and observe.  I results to come

kcw

I have one sitting in a nest, also would prefer it sitting lower in the cart.

GATABITES

I have a challenger cart for the XL. the egg rest on the table nest. I personally would not want the egg resting directly on the base of the table. The tale nest is only maybe $40. no brainer to me. 

miniMAXd

After 4 plus hours between 500-700* this was the highest temp registered. Outside air temp was 53*  No movement when opening the lid, and a few degrees cooler inside the cabinet.      Next test will be a low and slow with regular temp readings along the way.  

Jeepster47

@miniMAXd ... did you feel the cross bar inside the bottom cabinet right under the egg?

miniMAXd

@Jeepster47... The inside crossbar was about 3-5* less than where the egg sits the entire cook

pgprescott

Well, to each their own. Hard for me to believe the metal is only 100 under the egg. The coal burns @1300. Hope you are happy with the decision in a couple years. 

chuckytheegghead

I personally use the table nest. It doesn't raise it that high where it makes it look awkward and creates a little air flow. In my opinion the nest is worth the few extra dollars to protect against any possible damage to my cart. 

HeavyG

pgprescott said:

Well, to each their own. Hard for me to believe the metal is only 100 under the egg. The coal burns @1300. Hope you are happy with the decision in a couple years. 

Just how hot do you think the bottom of an egg will get in normal usage?

Also, keep in mind that that metal table is going to function as one big radiator so it is going to dissipate heat pretty effectively.

pgprescott

HeavyG said:

pgprescott said:

Well, to each their own. Hard for me to believe the metal is only 100 under the egg. The coal burns @1300. Hope you are happy with the decision in a couple years. 

Just how hot do you think the bottom of an egg will get in normal usage?

Also, keep in mind that that metal table is going to function as one big radiator so it is going to dissipate heat pretty effectively.

I would guess far more than 100. It won't dissipate as well right under the ceramics. You tell me how hot it will get under there, repeatedly. Hey, to each their own. I don't have a dog in the fight. Not my table. 

Jeepster47

@HeavyG ... here's what I measured and posted last summer ... again note that my large egg was in a nest:

http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1183174/bottom-temperature#latest

miniMAXd

100, was far lower than I expected as well and definitely cool to the touch. I will continue to monitor and make the switch to a table nest if  I see any spikes in temp, or the stability of egg/table.

HeavyG

pgprescott said:

HeavyG said:

pgprescott said:

Well, to each their own. Hard for me to believe the metal is only 100 under the egg. The coal burns @1300. Hope you are happy with the decision in a couple years. 

Just how hot do you think the bottom of an egg will get in normal usage?

Also, keep in mind that that metal table is going to function as one big radiator so it is going to dissipate heat pretty effectively.

I would guess far more than 100. It won't dissipate as well right under the ceramics. You tell me how hot it will get under there, repeatedly. Hey, to each their own. I don't have a dog in the fight. Not my table. 

I'm guessing that the reading on his IR is a little low due to the different emissivity value of aluminum versus the stock emissivity value most cheaper IR thermos are fixed at. I'm guessing that the difference between the IR gun reading and reality is not going to be double the reading though.

Aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat. My only concern might be the coating on the table but I have no idea if it is powder coated or anodized.

Normal powder coating can handle a few hundred degrees. High heat powder coating can handle 1000+ degrees. Again, I have no idea what the coating specifics are on the cart so there may be a problem there or not. I'm guessing not.

pgprescott

HeavyG said:

pgprescott said:

HeavyG said:

pgprescott said:

Well, to each their own. Hard for me to believe the metal is only 100 under the egg. The coal burns @1300. Hope you are happy with the decision in a couple years. 

Just how hot do you think the bottom of an egg will get in normal usage?

Also, keep in mind that that metal table is going to function as one big radiator so it is going to dissipate heat pretty effectively.

I would guess far more than 100. It won't dissipate as well right under the ceramics. You tell me how hot it will get under there, repeatedly. Hey, to each their own. I don't have a dog in the fight. Not my table. 

I'm guessing that the reading on his IR is a little low due to the different emissivity value of aluminum versus the stock emissivity value most cheaper IR thermos are fixed at. I'm guessing that the difference between the IR gun reading and reality is not going to be double the reading though.

Aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat. My only concern might be the coating on the table but I have no idea if it is powder coated or anodized.

Normal powder coating can handle a few hundred degrees. High heat powder coating can handle 1000+ degrees. Again, I have no idea what the coating specifics are on the cart so there may be a problem there or not. I'm guessing not.

Might want to see Toms reading from his large in a nest running at 350 dome. No way the temp of the OP at the egg and table is 100 when he is humming at 700 for hours. No way. Error. 

miniMAXd

@pgprescott this sounds like exactly what am looking for.  Do you have a link for this article?  I've searched thru most post' that mention "challenger" and all I ever find is talk about how you must have an air gap without the mention of problems people have had.  My goal is to not destroy a brand new table, but gather information to make an educated decision.  Even if my infer-red is mis- calibrated the surface which the egg sits was still cool enough to rest my hand on.  Maybe the low and slow will have drastically different results?  Still going to monitor...

pgprescott

miniMAXd said:

@pgprescott this sounds like exactly what am looking for.  Do you have a link for this article?  I've searched thru most post' that mention "challenger" and all I ever find is talk about how you must have an air gap without the mention of problems people have had.  My goal is to not destroy a brand new table, but gather information to make an educated decision.  Even if my infer-red is mis- calibrated the surface which the egg sits was still cool enough to rest my hand on.  Maybe the low and slow will have drastically different results?  Still going to monitor...

There is a link on @Jeepster47 's post just above. good luck

HeavyG

miniMAXd said:

@pgprescott this sounds like exactly what am looking for.  Do you have a link for this article?  I've searched thru most post' that mention "challenger" and all I ever find is talk about how you must have an air gap without the mention of problems people have had.  My goal is to not destroy a brand new table, but gather information to make an educated decision.  Even if my infer-red is mis- calibrated the surface which the egg sits was still cool enough to rest my hand on.  Maybe the low and slow will have drastically different results?  Still going to monitor...

If it is cool enough for you to rest your hand on for more than just a few seconds I wouldn't worry about it.

miniMAXd

I'm going to assume all the table nesters will still be using their nest...

1move

@miniMAXd whatever floats your boat, Challenger didn't pay for the cart you did. Its up to you to protect your investment not them. for $50 and a piece of mind and the ability to wipe underneath once in a while in my opinion is worth the money. 

miniMAXd

1move said:

@miniMAXd whatever floats your boat, Challenger didn't pay for the cart you did. Its up to you to protect your investment not them. for $50 and a piece of mind and the ability to wipe underneath once in a while in my opinion is worth the money. 

Agreed!  If you like the protection that the nest offers, im not against it at all.  I always presumed the nest was required from reading thru previous Challenger threads that all mention needing the nest. My dealer looked at me as if I was crazy when I asked if I should use my table nest.  He contacted Challenger to re assure me one was not necessary.

I personally prefer to go nestless. I will continue to monitor table temps and inspect regularly.

Thanks for everyone's input.  I would still like to hear if anybody has had any heat issues with their table.  Hopefully I'm not "that guy"  

 

jtcBoynton

Also consider if the original fire grate has been swapped out for one of the more open after market fire grates.  The OEM grate does provide much more thermal protection to the bottom of the egg than the open grate systems.  This is especially true if you have the older ceramic fire grate.

HeavyG

miniMAXd said:

1move said:

@miniMAXd whatever floats your boat, Challenger didn't pay for the cart you did. Its up to you to protect your investment not them. for $50 and a piece of mind and the ability to wipe underneath once in a while in my opinion is worth the money. 

Agreed!  If you like the protection that the nest offers, im not against it at all.  I always presumed the nest was required from reading thru previous Challenger threads that all mention needing the nest. My dealer looked at me as if I was crazy when I asked if I should use my table nest.  He contacted Challenger to re assure me one was not necessary.

I personally prefer to go nestless. I will continue to monitor table temps and inspect regularly.

Thanks for everyone's input.  I would still like to hear if anybody has had any heat issues with their table.  Hopefully I'm not "that guy"  

 

The heat of an egg is not going to harm the cart per se - it's a giant radiator. The only concern might be the surface finish directly under the egg. Challenger has said their coating is not going to be harmed by the heat of an egg sitting on it so I'm assuming that they are using a high heat finish.

Worst case scenario - 5 years from now the repeated exposure to the heat of the egg has messed up the surface finish directly under the base of the egg. So what? It's not as if it would be visible.

One thing to be careful about with the Challenger cart is that while the surface finish may be impervious to heat it apparently can be harmed by solvents. There was a thread from sometime last year where a fellow set a can of bug spray or something similar on the top of his Challenger cart and just the little bit of "juice" that sometimes drips from spray cans ate up the surface where the can was sitting.

If only he had "air-gapped" that can!

Bullhalsey

I have a Challenger cart as well for my Large BGE.  Had it for a little over a year.  All I had underneath the base was a thick piece of floor tile.  I was doing a pizza 2 weeks ago and heard a loud "pop".  The tile had cracked under the high temp (650-700).  So I went with a table nest, adds only a little bit of height, and I don't have to worry about the heat transfer to the table.  It took a little getting used to, but I actually prefer it.  Just my 2 cents.

FlashkaBob

If the manufacturer says it's safe, why not believe them? How about this for a compromise? You know those 3 little green feet that came with your egg? why not use them? Small air gap, not too high, but off the table enough so moisture doesn't get trapped between the ceramic and the platform.