In celebration of N.O., LA

Sardonicus

Sometimes you like the result.  And sometimes you have to get over it.

YukonRon

Sardonicus said:

Interesting, albeit unsurprising responses.
For better or worse, the decision to remove NOLA's monuments to slavery and Jim Crow is, well . . . it's all over 'ceptin' the lawsuits.

That's how this democratic republic of ours works.  
It's a lot like a civil war: 
Sometimes you like the result.  And sometimes you have to get over it. 

  

Will the art hanging in museums follow?

Sardonicus

YukonRon said:

Sardonicus said:

Interesting, albeit unsurprising responses.
For better or worse, the decision to remove NOLA's monuments to slavery and Jim Crow is, well . . . it's all over 'ceptin' the lawsuits.

That's how this democratic republic of ours works.  
It's a lot like a civil war: 
Sometimes you like the result.  And sometimes you have to get over it. 

  

Will the art hanging in museums follow?

 
If that's actually a serious, real-world question, well . . .
Merry Christmas, YukonRon.
                                             

YukonRon

Sardonicus said:

YukonRon said:

Sardonicus said:

Interesting, albeit unsurprising responses.
For better or worse, the decision to remove NOLA's monuments to slavery and Jim Crow is, well . . . it's all over 'ceptin' the lawsuits.

That's how this democratic republic of ours works.  
It's a lot like a civil war: 
Sometimes you like the result.  And sometimes you have to get over it. 

  

Will the art hanging in museums follow?

 
If that's actually a serious, real-world question, well . . .
Merry Christmas, YukonRon.
                                             

Why not? It has already begun at several universities around the country, due to a small portion of the student population requesting removal. One piece, in particular, had no reference to slavery, but showed children in bare feet playing. Troubling thing to me, the piece of art created in an era, where most children were barefoot. The piece of work had all children; African American, Native American, and Caucasians depicted running and playing. Pain, is in the eye of the beholder.

bgebrent

A bit like censorship.  If you want to keep it from the people, burn it.  Lest they learn from it, understand their history, what was both right and depraved.  Burn it by god so it can't hurt anyone else.  And then, after you've burned up history, you invite it's return.  The most ignorant, intellectually deprived post yet!  Philosophy 101.  History 101.  Put your head in the sand.  Let's ignore the facts and bury them in the ground, or, should we use the historical facts to teach, be enlightened, chart a new course.  No, damn the torpedoes and flck the facts, lets make everyone sing Kumbaya and act like it never happened.  Oh, and tear down all the historical artwork too.  Yep, it's art.  ISIS would agree.  The stupidity of political correctness astounds me.  Free water bottles for the first 500 in central park before noon.  Sheesh

YukonRon

@Sardonicus communicated the removals. The people of NOLA spoke, the council voted 6-1, it matters not to those of us it did not offend, it mattered more to those, that these statues and monuments did offend.
We do not live there. We can only observe.
I would find it odd that the folks in NOLA keep other remnants, such as the outdoor museums, depicting how the slaves were forced to live. Should they be removed too, or are those sights less painful to observe than confederate statues? Or are those considered sights of historical heritage? 
Again, pain lies in the eye of the beholder.

bgebrent

@YukonRon, it appears the Buffalo has struck.  We're same page brother. Read my post prior to yours. Merry Christmas.

YukonRon

bgebrent said:

@YukonRon, it appears the Buffalo has struck.  We're same page brother. Read my post prior to yours. Merry Christmas.

Yeah, Merry Christmas Brother!

Sardonicus

 
If a mere change in location of a handful of symbols in one city elicits such indignant concern, imagine the reactionary consternation across our nation a few short years from now.

There're many, many more changes down the road.    

New Census data shows Latinos driving shift in U.S. population demographicFox News Latino

UNION CITY, NJ - MARCH 28: Hispanic residents walk down a street on March 28, 2011 in Union City, New Jersey. Union City New Jersey, one of the stateâs largest cities, has a population of Hispanic or Latino origin of over 80%. According to the new 2010 Census Bureau statistics reported last Thursday, the Hispanic population in the United States has grown by 43% in the last decade, surpassing 50 million and accounting for about 1 out of 6 Americans. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images) (2011 GETTY IMAGES)

Census Bureau data . . . 

The changing demographics across the U.S. also indicate that many states are moving toward becoming minority-majority — where all minorities combine to make up more than half the population. . . .

Thirteen states now boost a minority-majority in their under-20 population, up from only five states in 2000. None of these states showed an increase in the under-20 white population, . . .

"It's a continuation of a trend in terms of growth,". . .  Hispanic population is increasing the most of any racial or ethnic group."

. . . census data shows . . . as many as 25.6 million new Hispanic and Asian voters could sway the vote in states across the U.S. come 2016 and 2020.

. . .  with California potentially seeing more than 7,650,000 new Hispanic and Asian voters, and Texas more than 3,000,000.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2015/06/25/new-census-data-shows-latinos-driving-shift-in-us-population-demographic/

 You'd better stock up on those blood pressure pills, reactionaries!  

It may not be just statues changing, but statutes.

                                     

The Evolution

will be

LIVE.

Sardonicus

YukonRon said:

@Sardonicus communicated the removals. The people of NOLA spoke, the council voted 6-1, it matters not to those of us it did not offend, it mattered more to those, that these statues and monuments did offend.
We do not live there. We can only observe.
. . .
Again, pain lies in the eye of the beholder.

You are correct, sir.

Sardonicus

pgprescott said:

Sardonicus said:

Darby_Crenshaw said:

i'm not debating you sardonicus. 

and i mentioned not knowing the full story behind the rationale for removing each statue.

i just find either extreme (villifying or worshipping) to be, well, an extreme, a simplification

. . . Just replying - conversationally. . . .
Our values dictate who we choose to venerate or vilify.  

. . . New Orleans has made its choice.

. . . I just wonder how this action helps. Does it enlighten the ignorant now or in the future? . . . 

I think that it can, @pgprescott .  

Lemme ask you:  Is there a difference between a celebratory monument and an historic monument?

I won't post a buncha pics, but I'll post a Google link to images of "confederate statues in New Orleans".  There are many images to view.

https://www.google.com/search?q=confederate+statues+in+new+orleans&biw=1366&bih=599&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjk4LuAxefJAhWGLSYKHcNeAJoQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=voPUUHhMC4oYFM:


I respectfully ask you to view those photos as objectively as possible and decide if you view those images as
enlightening the ignorant about the confederacy
or glorifying the confederacy to the ignorant.


Do you see anything other than gallantry, nobleness, heroism, in the images portrayed? 
Do you see anything educational or revelatory regarding the historical circumstance of the confederacy in the presentation on those figures?


It's your eye, so you'll behold those monuments' intended purpose as you will.
  

Either way,
Happy weekend
and
Merry Christmas

HendersonTRKing

YukonRon said:

@Sardonicus communicated the removals. The people of NOLA spoke, the council voted 6-1, it matters not to those of us it did not offend, it mattered more to those, that these statues and monuments did offend.
We do not live there. We can only observe.
I would find it odd that the folks in NOLA keep other remnants, such as the outdoor museums, depicting how the slaves were forced to live. Should they be removed too, or are those sights less painful to observe than confederate statues? Or are those considered sights of historical heritage? 
Again, pain lies in the eye of the beholder.

Oh noes!  Democracy at work!!

I didn't see what's to become of these silent vestiges of our troubling past. Some have suggested they be placed in a museum or other place of public accommodation, where people might view them in an educational setting so that we of the present can learn about the past, lest we are condemned to repeat it. 

Or not. There's always that warehouse where the gubmint stored Indy's Arc of the Covenant and the rest of the dangerous sht the public can't be trusted with. 

FarmerTom

YukonRon said:

Darby_Crenshaw said:

i'm not debating you sardonicus. 

and i mentioned not knowing the full story behind the rationale for removing each statue.

i just find either extreme (villifying or worshipping) to be, well, an extreme, a simplification

So what will they call Lee circle once the statue is removed? He was positioned with his back to the north. 

Maybe be we can go to DC and remove Thomas Jefferson, who birthed his children into slavery? Take down the Washington monument as well. 

Where are the reparations for the native Americans? My people were bought over essentially as slaves to mine coal, live in company housing, and paid in company script. Maybe we could look into those things that offend me and have them removed too.

America's history is not all about chopping down a cherry tree. The very ink used to write our history was derived from the blood and tears of the oppressed. We are a better place now. 

This is land is shared by many, not to be owned by few. Statues and remnants that changed the history of the world, should not be removed. They should be there to create discussions like these for those that want to understand from where we came, long after we are gone, to solidify our direction going forward, epitomizing the land of the free and recognize this is the home of the brave, that sacrificed to keep this country the rest of the world looks to in crisis.

Remove everything that offends, let us start in DC.

bgebrent said:

Revisionist history is for idiots.  Our history is what it is.  To take down historical monuments because they're now PU is bs.  It negates the past and all that was right or wrong with it.  To keep and maintain those works of art one might argue helps perpetuate a dialogue about what was right or wrong about it!  Or stick your damned head in the sand and protect your children from the f'ing truth!  Study and learn from history, or a ISIS does, defile and destroy historical art.  Ridiculous.  And, I wish that 170,000 would've gone to folks in need, not pc ****!

Couldn't agree more with you both.  PC is destroying the fabric of this country.  There is little if anything in this country that is not offensive to someone.  And as far as NO having spoken, I believe this was a council decision, was it not?  While it can be argued they represent the people of NO, I think we have all seen how political bodies often ignore "the will of the people", to further their own goals and line their pockets.

DoubleEgger

I've been Dachau Concentration Camp outside of Munich. It's a very moving place. You can learn from history if it's done the right way. I'm glad I went and I'm glad it wasn't bulldozed years ago out of shame. 

FarmerTom

Amen DoubleEgger.  And I suspect there are many Japanese who would like to see every likeness of Harry Truman removed.  But History is just that, and can't be changed, though apparently there are those doing all they can to try to erase it.  Liberal ISISism running amok right here in the USA.