Certified angus??

chrisc133

What exactly makes certified angus better?

my local shop sells a lot of certified angus stuff at a hefty markup...is the price worth it?  

Im itching to cook another brisket and he's selling a certified angus brisket at $4.99 a lb. This is almost twice as much as my local Walmart choice brisket--but would it be better?  I really wish I had access to a Costco prime brisket here...

Brisket_Fanatic

It's the breed of cattle and the like others the quality within the breed. Lots of good info here.

Dondgc

This won't help if you don't have access to Restaurant Depot - but I bought an Angus brisket from Restaurant Depot last week for about $2.50/lb.

If Walmart is still an option I think I would save the 50%. 

Darby_Crenshaw

the ELI5 version:

The USDA inspects slaughter houses and the process, and makes sure things are safe (or, safe by their definition at least).

But you can also have them GRADE your meat.  That costs extra. you can't sell meat that is not USDA inspected (fpr safety), but you CAN sell meat that isn't graded.

So we see, in our grocery store, the grades 'select' (low) 'choice' (middle/better) and (in restaurants or some lucky stores) 'prime' (better/best). These are the grades they will ascribe to your beef.  there are other grades, but these are what you can readily buy.

they have strict guidelines for those grades.

Now imagine you are a company that wants to sell 'premium' beef (there is no graded or criteria for this word, it is a marketing word).

Omaha Steaks is an example.  Their meat carried no USDA grade.  They use a LOT of flowery terms to say how wonderful it is, but none of them are quantifiable or specific.

Now, the "Certified Angus Beef" program is different.  First, recognize that it is not about certifying that the beef is Angus.  Angus beef is everywhere.  It's the most common commerical (supermarket) beef breed in the US and there is nothing special about black vs red angus, or angus in and of itself.

BUT.

The 'Certified Angus Brand' specifically says that they have specific criteria which take into account many things (like the marbling).

In truth, some of the things are virtually meaningless.  Black angus tastes no different than red angus, yet "Black Angus" is a winner of the marketing contest.  In fact, the CAB angus program says the hide color must be 51% black.  Minimal difference.

But much of their other criteria are such that (similar to USDA Prime), the meat has excellent flavor, marbling, etc.

Essentially.  CAB is a marketing tool.  They are saying "WE grade the meat so that it meets our very high standards".  ...and people are free to vote by buying or not buying it.

 If people like thier criteria and believe in their opinion/certification, they will pay more for the meat.  and (if everything they say about their criteria is true) they will receive a product worth paying for (i.e. better than choice but not quite as good as prime). This is the price range of CAB typically.

blasting

Dondgc said:

This won't help if you don't have access to Restaurant Depot - but I bought an Angus brisket from Restaurant Depot last week for about $2.50/lb.

If Walmart is still an option I think I would save the 50%. 

It appears the have regional pricing then.  Here in phx, the angus packers are 3.09.

SkinnyV

Cab brisket 7.50/lb here.

Spaightlabs

SkinnyV said:

Cab brisket 7.50/lb here.

That's not too far off of SRF/Wagyu pricing...

The Cen-Tex Smoker

I like CAB briskets over costco prime any day of the week. I've had pretty good luck with the brand and I sold it commercially for a few years too. It was hands down the best program you could buy outside of boutique producers and SRF wasn't even around that I know of back then. 

Like Darby says above, it's a brand and they basically sell high choice and prime "Angus" (has to be at least 51% Angus if I remember right). Ours (we bought from Sysco for foodservice but we also sold it out of the case) was wet aged at least 28 days before we got them. My local Randall's (Safeway) sells it here and it is not the same I what I sold. Not nearly as marbled and I'm guessing it's not aged 28 days. If it looks good, I would say to try it.

Restaurant Depot carries a similar program called Superior Angus Choice that i have found to be the same or similar quality.

Darby_Crenshaw

forget about "Angus",  Angus means nothing

"Angus brisket" is not "Certified Angus Beef" brisket except the two are Angus.

you will see signs in supermarkets that say "Black Angus" , "100% black Angus" or "Angus beef"

this means nothing.  it is not the same as "Certified Angus Beef"

one is a breed of cattle, the other is a brand name.

the challenge, in the US. would be to find supermarket beef that wasn't Angus.

'kleenex' (with a small 'k') now means any paper tissue, cheap store brand or whatever.

but "Kleenex Brand Tissues" (TM)  are a different thing, warranted by a manufacturer to be or perform at a certain level.

chrisc133

Darby_Crenshaw said:

forget about "Angus",  Angus means nothing

"Angus brisket" is not "Certified Angus Beef" brisket except the two are Angus.

you will see signs in supermarkets that say "Black Angus" , "100% black Angus" or "Angus beef"

this means nothing.  it is not the same as "Certified Angus Beef"

one is a breed of cattle, the other is a brand name.

the challenge, in the US. would be to find supermarket beef that wasn't Angus.

'kleenex' (with a small 'k') now means any paper tissue, cheap store brand or whatever.

but "Kleenex Brand Tissues" (TM)  are a different thing, warranted by a manufacturer to be or perform at a certain level.

Yes this is the brand. 



Maybe be I should give it a try...it'll be about 65 bucks for the brisket. 

Darby_Crenshaw

If it says "certified angus beef"  that's the stuff that is graded by them, not the USDA, and which compares favorably to about USDA top-choice or the lower end of prime

i frankly think the name is hampered by the push on Angus(!) beef in advertising (McDonald's had 'Angus' burgers for a while for example, plus the supermarket pimping of the word 'angus' as though it's better than some other breed they don't sell anyway). The name makes it sound like someone is merely certifying that it's angus beef

in reality they are saying it is angus beef which has further been certified (by their brand) to be good enough to sell under their name

if it was "Porsche Angus Beef" people would understand it more clearly. The word "Certified" is too ambiguous, since most peeps dunno what certifying stands for in this case

nolaegghead

Porsche Angus Beef sounds pretty sexy to me.

Marketing is influential in purchasing, and all the sheep need direction to buy the cows.

Personally, I topically notice the grading and the non-graded claims of heritage, but what sells me is the reputation of where I buy my meat (mostly based on my experience but also other factors) and how it looks.  You can tell more than any certification or grading how the meat will taste if you can see and feel it.  Feeling your meat should be a religious experience.   If you do not like to feel your meat, perhaps your wife, girlfriend, boyfriend of husband can fill in for your squeamishness. 

During the later part of 2003 and the early part of 2004, the American fast food industry ran a public relations campaign to promote the supposedly superior quality of Angus beef. However, the first of these campaigns was run by Back Yard Burger in 2002.[24] Beginning in 2006, McDonalds commenced testing on hamburgers made with Angus beef in several regions in the US. After this test, the company said that customer response to the burgers was positive[25] and began selling the burger made with Angus beef in all US locations in July 2009.[26] In response to the test in the US, McDonalds Australia began selling two Angus burgers, the Grand Angus and the Mighty Angus, using Australian-bred Angus, in their restaurants.[27]

The American Angus Association created the "Certified Angus Beef" (CAB) standard in 1978. The purpose of this standard was to promote the idea that Angus beef was of higher quality than beef from other breeds of cattle. Cattle are eligible for "Certified Angus Beef" evaluation if they are at least 51% black and exhibit Angus influence, which include black Simmental cattle and crossbreds. However, they must meet all 10 of the following criteria, which were refined in January 2007 to further enhance product consistency, in order to be labeled "Certified Angus Beef" by USDA Graders:[28]

• Modest or higher degree of marbling
• Medium or fine marbling texture
• "A" maturity
• 10 to 16 square-inch ribeye area
• Less than 1,000-pound hot carcass weight
• Less than 1-inch fat thickness
• Moderately thick or thicker muscling
• No hump on the neck exceeding 5 cm (2")
• Practically free of capillary rupture
• No dark cutting characteristics
• Usually black or red in color

In summary, the meat sellers are setting their own criteria, and marketing it versus paying the USDA to apply their grading.  And we all know there is more to taste than what we see insofar as fat content.  The CAB people are trying to correlate some cow characteristics to determine grade.  Hey, whatever works. 

Darby_Crenshaw

I agree that the esoteric criteria like a steer having 51% black hide (with 49% red allowable) is marketing BS

For example, in Europe, or at least Scotland I think, where the breed originated, it's red that trumps black. And there is just absolutely no difference in the meat, because siblings can exhibit different colors.  

But the other criteria DO tend to ensure the meat is better than USDA select and choice, simply because they focus on the same things he USDA does too

most people though buy 'Angus' in general purely due to marketing. They couldn't explain what angus means. But the name sure sounds cool, right?

chrisc133

Darby_Crenshaw said:

I agree that the esoteric criteria like a steer having 51% black hide (with 49% red allowable) is marketing BS

For example, in Europe, or at least Scotland I think, where the breed originated, it's red that trumps black. And there is just absolutely no difference in the meat, because siblings can exhibit different colors.  

But the other criteria DO tend to ensure the meat is better than USDA select and choice, simply because they focus on the same things he USDA does too

most people though buy 'Angus' in general purely due to marketing. They couldn't explain what angus means. But the name sure sounds cool, right?

Yep...from a marketing perspective, it sure seems to work.

I'll give the CAB brisket a try.  I just took out the last packer from my freezer...it's been in there a while, and I was very disappointed to see it was a select brisket I picked up on sale a long time ago.  I just got back from a work trip to Texas...absolutely love brisket and want to produce something with similar results.

SmokeyPitt

chrisc133 said:

I'll give the CAB brisket a try.  I just took out the last packer from my freezer...it's been in there a while, and I was very disappointed to see it was a select brisket I picked up on sale a long time ago.  I just got back from a work trip to Texas...absolutely love brisket and want to produce something with similar results.

I'm not saying a select brisket can't be good...but I would smoke it, chop it up, and make a huge pot of chili.  Food save portions and stock the freezer. 

chrisc133

SmokeyPitt said:

chrisc133 said:

I'll give the CAB brisket a try.  I just took out the last packer from my freezer...it's been in there a while, and I was very disappointed to see it was a select brisket I picked up on sale a long time ago.  I just got back from a work trip to Texas...absolutely love brisket and want to produce something with similar results.

I'm not saying a select brisket can't be good...but I would smoke it, chop it up, and make a huge pot of chili.  Food save portions and stock the freezer. 

Yeah...brisket chili is on my upcoming menu...although I am hoping to get a few good slices out of it for dinner.

MelSharples

@Darby_Crenshaw is spot on with the breakdown as always. One caveat, CAB is a USDA recognized grade so if you see the CAB logo you are buying a higher grade of meet. My company sells Utility, Select, No Roll, Choice, Prime, and CAB product and we generally tell our customers that CAB would be considered upper choice, nearly comparable to prime. In my opinion someone selling "Angus" beef should be pricing it at a Choice grade level.

Darby_Crenshaw

>In my opinion someone selling "Angus" beef should be pricing it at a Choice grade level.

but you can still have angus that is graded 'select', 'commercial', 'utility/cutter/canner', no?

"angus" is just the breed, and it's unassociated with quality/grade

nolaegghead

60% of the American herd are Angus according to this:

http://www.americancowboy.com/article/top-5-beef-cattle-breeds-24440

We import and export beef so I'm not sure if that correlates with what we see on the store shelves.

nolaegghead

I feel an inexplicable urge to buy Wranglers all of a sudden...

Darby_Crenshaw

it's 60% of the herd, but you're likely seeing that it occupies a much higher percentage of the beef at your grocery store.

my point (belabored at this point) is that if you ran into your grocery store (at least up here anyway) and grabbed any old chunk of beef in the meatcase, the cheapest cut, labelled select, chances are it has a sticker on it declaring 'Angus'.

so what? 

"black angus" is even more irrelevant. its it possible to taste a difference between sibling cattle where one has red patches that total 51% of its hide and the other only 49%, viz: red or black angus?

just for sh!tzznegiggles, there is a "Certified Hereford Program" just like CAB, but they are maybe behind the curve.

in the store you can simplify things by jreferring to grade and your own visual inspection. it's possible to find a cut that has enough marbling to pass for USDA prime rib eye, but which is from a carcass that has been graded as choice

nolaegghead

I still don't get it.  So what if there's like exactly 50% black hide?  So how do you measure the area of color on a hide anyway?  Do **** count?  What about genetics?  And can you have belabored questions?  What if the cowboys are wearing Levis instead of Wranglers...are they still real cowboys?

nolaegghead

#blackcowsmatter

Thatgrimguy

I learned stuff from this thread.  Thanks guys.

Jeepster47

nolaegghead said:

#blackcowsmatter

@nolaegghead ... I would respectfully submit, that on this forum #allcowsmatter

nolaegghead

This is troof:  I had a cat named angus who was white with black spots.  He was 51% black. Or maybe 49%.  Somewhere around there. 

And the myth that Angus doesn't have horns is debunked here:

MelSharples

Darby_Crenshaw said:

>In my opinion someone selling "Angus" beef should be pricing it at a Choice grade level.

but you can still have angus that is graded 'select', 'commercial', 'utility/cutter/canner', no?

"angus" is just the breed, and it's unassociated with quality/grade

Well, you're absolutely right about that. I guess I was thinking more about packers from RD, Costco, etc.. Certainly wouldn't go to Kroger and see something labeled Angus and automatically think I was buying something great.

@nolaegghead I hear cats with that kind of coloration grade out very high in China...

Ladeback69

Spaightlabs said:

SkinnyV said:

Cab brisket 7.50/lb here.

That's not too far off of SRF/Wagyu pricing...

I just looked at SRF's site and there cheapest brisket is $129 for an 11-14 pound one.  That's $9-$11 a pound.  I think I will stick to RD's choice or pirme at $2.99 a pound here.  I have had good look with choice, but prefer prime.  I have had some CAB and it was really good, but that would be for special occasions.  For CAB I like going to Dodge City Beef in Shawnee, KS.  Briskets there are about $7-$8 buck or so a pound.

theyolksonyou

@nolaegghead that horned Angus comment made me laugh. 

SmokeyPitt

@nolaegghead that new avatar made me...well...never mind.