Brisket flat problems. Beyond frustration

lwjr

i have attempted to smoke five brisket over the last four weeks.   I pulled the first at 192 internal temp. It was slightly dry but edible.  Next one was pulled at 200 and dry as a bone.  The next one was pulled at 190. Again it was a little dry but edible.  I thought I was not letting it cook long enough so on the next one it was pulled at 203.   Dry, threw it away.  I just pulled today's attempt off at 185. I was thinking since it the ones I pulled at 190 were close, maybe pulling at 185 it would be the way to go. Tough as leather.  Which tells me it did not cook long enough.  Each brisket was cooked between 240-260.  I wrapped each one after removing from the egg and let it rest for 45-60 minutes.  Todays flat was wrapped in butcher paper from the time I started until I removed it.  I have cooked a couple unwrapped and have wrapped one once it cooked thru the stall.   
I have been using flats because I do not want to expierment with $50 worth of brisket every week. Once I had figured out the flats I would move to a full brisket.  The flats have been around four pounds each. Unfortunately the stores out here only carry choice briskests. I know that could be part of the problem.  The one meat market sells choice only.   
Im not trying to be Aaron Franklin but I would like to be able to smoke a brisket flat that my family can eat. Any suggestions is greatly appreciated 

JohnInCarolina

I understand the logic of trying to experiment on flats before attempting a full packer, but you should do the opposite.  Let us know and we'll walk you through it.  I'm no expert but even my first packer was miles better than any flat I have ever done.

lousubcap

First up @lwjr- welcome aboard and I would say "enjoy the journey" but you have definitely hit an obstacle.  I have wrestled with flats for many cooks so, while I don't recall the temperature/ cook results I applaud your dedication to documentation and sorting this out.  
Here's what I will offer-flats are a tough and challenging cook.  So, when is it done-when the thickest part probes "like buttah".  And that can run across quite a temperature range, although you did have it covered.  (Edit: every cow is out for revenge. No two cooks are the same.) That said, you need to focus on the thick end of the cook.  And if there is a significant thickness difference across the cut then foil protect he thin end for a good duration of the cook.
And as an aside, I see flats around here for about $6/lb and packers in the neighborhood of $3.79/lb.  Packers (with the higher fat content) are more forgiving and yield a much broader finish -line target.  All above -FWIW-

Terrebandit

I always cook a full packer with a minimum USDA grade of choice.  You are,cooking the driest part of the brisket only so you need to retain moisture during the cook.  My only suggestion would be to lower the cooking temp to around 230, and use the Texas Crutch ( HD Foil double wrap, with about 1/2 cup of Doctor Pepper added to help with moisture content) at the stall around 160 or 170.   If you don't want to do that try to braise it in liquid in a foil pan.  

blind99

Flats are a PITA. They're the hardest part of the brisket to cook. I have better luck with the cheapest restaurant depot packer than any flat I tried. 

lwjr

Thank you to all of you for responding. I'm going to try to smoke a full a full brisket next week. A good friend of mine asked Aaron Franklin last week about my problem with flats.  Aaron told him, why is he trying to smoke a flat?  That pretty much summed it up for me. 

lousubcap

Gotta love the wisdom of the master-but never forget that Aaron Franklin can get all the packers he wants.  Sometimes you just have to play the flat hand you are dealt.  Q knowledge across the Q landscape will serve you well.  

Terrebandit

Yeah, one could cook a select grade packer for cheap, lop off the flat for brisket chili, and eat the point for dinner.  

A31unit

I feel your pain. Just attempted my first brisket flat last week. Learned a lot. Especially with the good advice learned here. Was dry. Some say under cooked some say over cooked. It was all gone by the next day.  Can't wait to do my first packer.

Gdhoosier

Agree with the recommendations to try a full packer, although my for my first brisket cooks, I bought just the point from my butcher and those turned out great. The flat is so lean, yet the point has both fatty and lean (bottom part of the point). You might see if you can buy just the point and try that, but as someone pointed out, the meat is cheaper by the pound if you buy the full packer, so it may not be much more just to do the full packer.  You'll get there - don't give up!

Mosca

I've done a couple flats and they came out fine. I inject them with low sodium beef broth.

Also you might not be resting them long enough (45-60 minutes). I let mine go 2 hours minimum.

Everyone prefers point to flat, but no one throws away the flat; it's still good eatin'. Sometimes you do a flat because you want brisket and that's all you can get at the supermarket. Not everyone has the same resources as Aaron Franklin.

tarheelmatt

lwjr said:

i have attempted to smoke five brisket over the last four weeks.   I pulled the first at 192 internal temp. It was slightly dry but edible.  Next one was pulled at 200 and dry as a bone.  The next one was pulled at 190. Again it was a little dry but edible.  I thought I was not letting it cook long enough so on the next one it was pulled at 203.   Dry, threw it away.  I just pulled today's attempt off at 185. I was thinking since it the ones I pulled at 190 were close, maybe pulling at 185 it would be the way to go. Tough as leather.  Which tells me it did not cook long enough.  Each brisket was cooked between 240-260.  I wrapped each one after removing from the egg and let it rest for 45-60 minutes.  Todays flat was wrapped in butcher paper from the time I started until I removed it.  I have cooked a couple unwrapped and have wrapped one once it cooked thru the stall.   
I have been using flats because I do not want to expierment with $50 worth of brisket every week. Once I had figured out the flats I would move to a full brisket.  The flats have been around four pounds each. Unfortunately the stores out here only carry choice briskests. I know that could be part of the problem.  The one meat market sells choice only.   
Im not trying to be Aaron Franklin but I would like to be able to smoke a brisket flat that my family can eat. Any suggestions is greatly appreciated 

This (in bold above) I find odd, since you've done five flats already and could have nailed your cook with the packer because you likely had more fat/marble.  

jtcBoynton

@lwjr   You have started your brisket learning experience by trying to cook the hardest cut first - a small portion of flat.  If you do not want to buy a full packer, there is another possible route to take. Depending on what your butcher is willing to do, you could buy what is sometimes called the 2nd cut of brisket.  The butcher will take a full brisket and make a vertical cut, separating it into a piece that is flat and one that is more roast shape. The flat piece is mostly the flat and the rounder piece is mostly the point. There is actually some of both portions in the two pieces. The butcher will sell the flat piece to others at elevated prices (around here, flatter pieces are more popular) and sell you the rounder piece at a discount.  The mostly point piece will not be as pretty looking as the flat, but it is definitely the most tasty portion. 

Ladeback69

lwjr said:

i have attempted to smoke five brisket over the last four weeks.   I pulled the first at 192 internal temp. It was slightly dry but edible.  Next one was pulled at 200 and dry as a bone.  The next one was pulled at 190. Again it was a little dry but edible.  I thought I was not letting it cook long enough so on the next one it was pulled at 203.   Dry, threw it away.  I just pulled today's attempt off at 185. I was thinking since it the ones I pulled at 190 were close, maybe pulling at 185 it would be the way to go. Tough as leather.  Which tells me it did not cook long enough.  Each brisket was cooked between 240-260.  I wrapped each one after removing from the egg and let it rest for 45-60 minutes.  Todays flat was wrapped in butcher paper from the time I started until I removed it.  I have cooked a couple unwrapped and have wrapped one once it cooked thru the stall.   
I have been using flats because I do not want to expierment with $50 worth of brisket every week. Once I had figured out the flats I would move to a full brisket.  The flats have been around four pounds each. Unfortunately the stores out here only carry choice briskests. I know that could be part of the problem.  The one meat market sells choice only.   
Im not trying to be Aaron Franklin but I would like to be able to smoke a brisket flat that my family can eat. Any suggestions is greatly appreciated 

Like others have said cooking the brisket is hard and trying to just do a 4 pound flat is the hardest thing on a grill of any kind is really hard unless you are braising it in pot in the oven or in a slow cooker it not going to go well.  Try and find a 10 to 9 pound packer and you may be surprised as to the outcome.  The last brisket I did was a 11 pound one trimmed to about 9 pounds.  Cooked in about 9.5 hours at 265 for an average temp on the egg.  It was done way early and I FTC'd it for about 7 hours.  I added a little warmed beef juice to help keep it moist.  I had also separated the point from the flat to do burnt ends.  They both came out great.  Sounds like you got down what you need to do, you just need a better and bigger cut of meet.  Look for good marbling, fat is where the flavor is at.  Just trim off the hard fat at the point and leave about a 1/4" on the bottom of the fat cap.  Put you probe to monitor the cook in the thickest part of the flat.  when it get to over 190, you can start probing it to see if it probes like butter.  Remember to cut a little piece of the corner of the flat where it is against the grain so you know where to slice later when you can't see the grain.  Good Luck and welcome to the Eggdiction.

chili50bq

I've cooked both,prefer the packer trimmed around 8 to 10 LBS. My flats have been good an juicy. I use about a 3 to 4 LB butcher flat. Do my rub thang then I wrap it in a 1/2 LB of good quality bacon. Let this set for an hour. Then throw it in BGE with the place setter in ,my flat lava rock on rock and a pan of juice you like in the pan. 225 to 230 an spritz ever hour to 170 internal meat temp. Remove take off the bacon pour juice in, no soda pop product. Wrap 3 times and get each wrap as tight as you can. Cook about 2 more hours to a internal temp of 195. Use a digital temp gauge to measure, do not unwrap and probe at top of brisket about half way thru cut.Put in ice chest, no Ice, do not unwrap an wrap a towel or newspaper around it for 2 hours at least. Remove open an let rest at least 30 minutes an enjoy.

                                                    Good Luck
                                                     Barry ( Bear) Thompson 

Raideregg

UMMM, scrap the flat and go for the Packer!  Make sure to assist use a medium drip pan, I use apple juice to provide additional moisture under neath as it sits on the ceramic plate below.  This helps out tremendously I have not had any issues, your temp on the egg is fine, your internal of 190 is good.  The bigger packer will hold more moisture for sure.  Best of luck!!  

luckyboy

I didn't seen in the treads but by any chance did you remove to much of the fat from the brisket ? I usually place the brisket fat side up so that it will melt and get into the meat.

dougcrann

Brisket...what a PITA.   We use it for ground beef. Take a Tri Tip anyday..

Acn

Has anybody suggested the @travistrick method?

http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1138233/brisket-how-i-do-it/p1

I haven't done it, and I'd certainly not do it with a full packer, but it would be great for a small flat.

blasting

Question, when doing a full packer, cook until point probes like butter - between 190-205 - the flat is along for the ride - is this correct?

BTW - op - I've only done Angus packers.  It pains me to spend 40-60 on a hunk of meat when it's just me and my daughter, but with a vacuum sealer this is probably 25 meals for us.  Pretty cheap protein when you look at it that way.

lousubcap

@Acn- many have had great results with the method you link for flats.
@blasting- The reverse is the finish-line indicator-thickest part of the flat probes like "buttah" and you are there.  Temperature in the flat, point or anywhere else is only a guide for checking the flat.  

blasting

lousubcap said:

@blasting-  finish-line indicator-thickest part of the flat probes like "buttah" and you are there.    

@lousubcap

I've been doing it wrong then.  I've been waiting for the point to probe - never even probed the flat.  Got one going on tomorrow night - will watch the flat this time.  Thanks.

lousubcap

@blasting- give this link a look for some eggcellent brisket info:
Educate me, please. And enjoy the cook.