Inability to do 2 zone cooking on a round kamodo?

jollygreenegg

Was reading this article on amazing ribs.com.  Author says 2 zone cooking is not possible on a round kamado (ie BGE).  I have a XL and do this all the time...  I don't think the author is accurate on his assessment...  What do you guys/gals think?



http://amazingribs.com/BBQ_buyers_guide/smokers/egg_kamado_and_ceramic_grills_and_smokers.html

Eggcelsior

He highlights the issue with Kamados in regards to the ceramic soaking up heat. If you only place the coals on one side of the egg and leave it alone, eventually the entire cooking space will be relatively constant with temp.

Now, if you're treating the egg like any other grill when cooking something hot and fast(lifting the lid frequently) the cooking space won't heat up the same so you would maintain the indirect/direct zones better.

jollygreenegg

Eggcelsior said:

He highlights the issue with Kamados in regards to the ceramic soaking up heat. If you only place the coals on one side of the egg and leave it alone, eventually the entire cooking space will be relatively constant with temp.

Now, if you're treating the egg like any other grill when cooking something hot and fast(lifting the lid frequently) the cooking space won't heat up the same so you would maintain the indirect/direct zones better.

I would think that even though the ceramic would put out even heat all around, the area over the fire would be still be hotter from the flames/charcoal. 

The author does say 2 zone is possible on the Primo because of the oval shape which goes against the ceramic theory.

Foghorn

"I would think that even though the ceramic would put out even heat all around, the area over the fire would be still be hotter from the flames/charcoal."

It is.  I do two zone cooking on my XL all the time - just like I did on my round 22.5" Weber before that. 

As the grill gets smaller it is harder to do, but on the XL it is easy.  I usually light the coals in the back and use the front of the grill as my cooler zone.

As @Eggcelsior says, this works best when you are raising the lid fairly frequently.

Focker

Good read, and as an owner of both eggs and kettles in the Midwest, agree with his assessment.  Have never used a Primo, so I can't offer any advice as to whether it would be that much of an advantage over an egg.  By design, it would make it easier.    

The problem with anything other than maybe the XL, is proximity to the fire, and ceramic.  Yeah, you can create two different cooking temp zones, but not a true on/off heat two-zone fire.  The whole point of this style of fire is to slow the cook.  Two temp zones closer together, counter that.    

The XL could work.  Light a chimney, when fully lit at peak, dump on one end of the firebox, and start the cook immediately.  

ChiliPepper

Honestly I have to agree with meathead at amazing ribs. An egg with a platesetter installed is not a true "2-zone" setup. Don't get me wrong, I love my egg, but...

Direct vs Indirect is just as much about the ability to go between the two setups (aka have both setups available on the same surface). If I want to reverse sear a 2" thick ribeye to perfection than I need to:

1) fire up the egg with the platesetter installed and let the steak cook for a bit

2) pull the steak off to rest, while I risk burning the heck out of my hand and arm to remove the platesetter

3) Lastly, let the egg come up to full throttle for the sear.

I hate pulling a hot platesetter out of the egg, did it once, and decided that would be the last time I tried that. For me the egg is either a direct cooking machine, or an indirect cooking machine, but never both at the same time...

SmokingPiney

@ChiliPepper - pulling the platesetter needs to be a well planned, SHORT move. I set mine on a Weber kettle that I put right next to the Egg. Welding gloves are a must, as is not having imbibed in too many adult beverages.

It's a "no joke" operation. 

theyolksonyou

ChiliPepper said:

Honestly I have to agree with meathead at amazing ribs. An egg with a platesetter installed is not a true "2-zone" setup. Don't get me wrong, I love my egg, but...

Direct vs Indirect is just as much about the ability to go between the two setups (aka have both setups available on the same surface). If I want to reverse sear a 2" thick ribeye to perfection than I need to:

1) get a second egg

FTFY

SmokeyPitt

ChiliPepper said:

Honestly I have to agree with meathead at amazing ribs. An egg with a platesetter installed is not a true "2-zone" setup. Don't get me wrong, I love my egg, but...

Direct vs Indirect is just as much about the ability to go between the two setups (aka have both setups available on the same surface). If I want to reverse sear a 2" thick ribeye to perfection than I need to:

1) fire up the egg with the platesetter installed and let the steak cook for a bit

2) pull the steak off to rest, while I risk burning the heck out of my hand and arm to remove the platesetter

3) Lastly, let the egg come up to full throttle for the sear.

I hate pulling a hot platesetter out of the egg, did it once, and decided that would be the last time I tried that. For me the egg is either a direct cooking machine, or an indirect cooking machine, but never both at the same time...

@ChiliPepper I agree pulling the hot plate setter can be a bit of a pain.  Just a suggestion- I have had pretty good luck simply using a foil pan with a grid sitting on top.  If you want you can add some liquid to the pan to create a better indirect barrier.  Much easier to remove the foil pan than the plate setter.  If you use liquid it will add some moisture to the meat, but I usually dry it with paper towels before the sear anyway.  

Focker

We can even add the KJ's Divide and Conquer cooking system and Turbostream into the discussion.  The half-moon ceramic "deflector" or TS's diffuser plate will push the heat into the other zone, there is nowhere else for it to rise.  

Might as well save some significant coin, buy a few 2$ firebricks at the local stone store, and place them on the grid, standard setup.  Buy a second grid(Weber 18.5"er), raise it with carriage bolts, nuts, washers (SS of course because zinc plated is sooooo harmful), or 3 firebricks and place on top of that.....$20 investment.    

fishlessman

dont think ive ever used an indirect setup for a steak

Canugghead

@ChiliPepper you need an XL like @DMW 's  

Focker

theyolksonyou said:

ChiliPepper said:

Honestly I have to agree with meathead at amazing ribs. An egg with a platesetter installed is not a true "2-zone" setup. Don't get me wrong, I love my egg, but...

Direct vs Indirect is just as much about the ability to go between the two setups (aka have both setups available on the same surface). If I want to reverse sear a 2" thick ribeye to perfection than I need to:

1) get a kettle

FTFY

FTFY 

Focker

Canugghead said:

@ChiliPepper you need an XL like @DMW 's  

Pic is a good point.  Too large of a fire, too close, and radiation from all of the ceramic surrounding the breasts, including the firebricks.   With the Weber baskets in the kettle, the basket is clearly on the other side pushed alongside the round bowl.  Not much, if any, radiation coming from Porcelain coated steel.  

The off heat section is at least double.  Fire zone, at least half.  All of that open air in the kettle is one of the best "diffusers" you can get.  

Canugghead

I also like the Vortex
http://www.bbqsmokermods.com/product-p/bsm-vor-sm.htm

Judy Mayberry

Only the XL can do that. Those of us with a Large are out of luck.

I just saw this new product online. The second picture shows it best.

http://shop.turbostream.net/products/firebox-divider-plate

GRE1

Whatever they want to call it..... 2.zones all the time on my XLs

BYS1981

I do 2 zones in my XL rather frequently, but I am usually doing quick cooks that last less than 40 minutes. I imagine EVENTUALLY without opening the lid it would become 1 zone, but I have not cooked so long that it has.  I consistently fill my XL about 1/3 piled to one side and use the other side as indirect, I only use the PS when I absolutely have to. 

Theophan

ChiliPepper said:

... If I want to reverse sear a 2" thick ribeye to perfection than I need to:

1) fire up the egg with the platesetter installed and let the steak cook for a bit

2) pull the steak off to rest, while I risk burning the heck out of my hand and arm to remove the platesetter

3) Lastly, let the egg come up to full throttle for the sear.

I hate pulling a hot platesetter out of the egg, did it once, and decided that would be the last time I tried that. 

I've been thinking of doing a reverse reverse sear .  In other words, a T-rex. Why does the sear have to come at the end?  Why not sear it first, then cool the Egg down a bit, maybe even put in the plate setter (!), and cook the steak as slowly as we like till the internal temp is perfect?  Or even just let it cool down a lot and forget the plate setter?  No burnt hands or arms, perfect steak.

It seems to me that this discussion is demonstrating that reverse sear may be just the trend of the moment, and that when people really settle in and get used to it, it's not any better, might not be as good as an initial sear followed by a low and slow cook to temp which I'm pretty sure is what the great steak restaurants have been doing for decades.

blind99

Theophan said:

ChiliPepper said:

... If I want to reverse sear a 2" 

It seems to me that this discussion is demonstrating that reverse sear may be just the trend of the moment, and that when people really settle in and get used to it, it's not any better, might not be as good as an initial sear followed by a low and slow cook to temp which I'm pretty sure is what the great steak restaurants have been doing for decades.

Reverse sear makes a decent steak. But I find it smoky and a PITA. Season steak with salt, get egg really hot, cook steak, eat. 

Skiddymarker

Two zone cooking is a combination of direct IR from burning lump and shadowed or indirect convection heat. The XL is big enough you can put a brick in the center of the grate, load lump in one half and get true two zone cooking at the grid level. If you don't use a brick the fire will spread to the whole firebox. The LBGE gets pretty tight if you try this, IMO. 
I have a large Primo and MBGE, like them both. I can warm twice bakers indirect while cooking a chicken raised direct in the Primo, can't do that in my MBGE. For reverse sear the Primo does a good job, cooking at 225ºF indirect and then open the vents and move the meat to the direct side with the grid on the firebox. (The Primo grids suck as they are not really reversible as claimed) I use my MBGE SS grid sitting on the Primo fire box. The oval shape has some advantages. 

dlk7

The primo 400 XL cooking grid is only 1 inch wider at the oval than the diameter of the BGE XL. The fire grate is much smaller than the cooking grid and I have found that it is just as easy to do two zone cooking on my XLs.  As long as I'm not doing long cooks, over 45 minutes, I don't need a fire brick and it seems to work just fine for me.

dlk7

Using a half circle stone or my half circle raised grid with drip pan works too.

bboulier

I have both a medium BGE and KJ Classic with the divide and conquer system.  The main reason for purchasing the KJ, aside from extra space, was the divide and conquer system which allows one to cook both direct and indirect without removing the place setter or other stone barrier.  I think the D&C system will work on a large Egg.  If it does, it would be a good purchase, as it really works great.  I considered the Primo before purchasing the medium BGE, but the price was just too high.

Judy Mayberry

Yes, the KJ Divide and Conquer system works on the BGE Large Egg. I checked it out a couple of months ago.

tonkaegger

Two-zone cooking is easy on the XL.  I've done many cooks starting the food out low, and then moving over to the hot side for a sear at the end.  I do reverse sear on steaks without the platesetter, with all the coals in the back, and do the first part of the cook at 280 instead of 225.  The oval Primo has less total cooking area than the XL BGE. The article is completely wrong.

Skiddymarker

dlk7 said:

The primo 400 XL cooking grid is only 1 inch wider at the oval than the diameter of the BGE XL. The fire grate is much smaller than the cooking grid and I have found that it is just as easy to do two zone cooking on my XLs.  As long as I'm not doing long cooks, over 45 minutes, I don't need a fire brick and it seems to work just fine for me.

I think the idea oof the fire brick or grate splitter is to get more lump in the grill and keep it all on one side for direct IR cooking. Have only seen it once and I'm guessing the 1/2 load of lump in the XL was equivalent to at least a full load in my MBGE - that's enough for hours of 400º plus cooking. You have found what works for you and that's what counts. 
@bboulier - interesting, I bought the Primo because it was less than a LBGE and it did seem more versitile. (Canadian prices for a Large 300 was $1000CDN, or about $800US at the time I bought, LBGE was over $1200CDN)

YukonRon

Get an XL. That is why I bought it. I had seen the demo, I was going to get a Large.

tjv

as many have said, two zone cooking is easy on most xl size cookers.  split the fire box and your are off and grilling.

on the large, try the half stone directly under the grid.  The grid should be raised slightly above the felt line, so when you open the cooker, you whisk away the heat surrounding the grid.   If you want max two zone, leave the dome open.   the hot side is at or inside the fire ring.  

tJudy Mayberry said:

Yes, the KJ Divide and Conquer system works on the BGE Large Egg. I checked it out a couple of months ago.

the divide and conquer is built for a 16" ID fire ring.  many egg fire rings (new ones less than 6 years old) are less than 16" ID.


t

dcc

Two zone cooking is easy with two eggs.  
I have had good results with a KJ Divide and Conquer in my LBGE.  You don't have much of a difference in temp between the two zones, but having a direct and indirect zone available is far more useful than having two different temperature zones for me.  

pgprescott

Just add a half moon raised grid with drip pan and a half pizza stone to any egg and you have two zone cooking. I guess I would say you have direct and indirect, the temps will be similar. The L and XL have 1/2 stones. You would have to cut one for smaller eggs.