Need some advice on finishing my table.

chrisc133

I have a nice table being built for my grills and need some advice on finishing it. This will be my table design --but of course cut to my grills. It's made out if Cyprus and is 29" x 90". 




Through my forum research--I see the best spar varnish is a marine grade varnish. I don't have access to marine stores here, but Amazon carries this--which is one of the often recommended brands. 






my questions are:  

1. will the above work  for my table? I've been told that some varnish will not stick to Cyprus. Is that an issue here? 
2.   I would like to stain my table prior to applying the varnish. Would that be a problem? Any recommendations on products to stain the table under the varnish? 
3.  How many coats should I apply? And how much of the varnish should I get?  I'm thinking the one court so I will have additional on hand for re-application in the future... But I really have no idea how much coverage one quart will get me 
4.  I would also like to cover the table. I've looked at a few websites recommended on here,  but a few of the recommendations are old.  Any recommendations on A cover? Are there any inexpensive options for a table this size? 

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help. 

Wolfpack

sorry not a wood worker- looks great and love the table. Let me see if I can summon some help for you @nolaegghead

YukonRon

Chem E here. I deal with medium to ultra high solids functional polymers. My responsibilities include, but are not limited to; Aerospace, automotive, defense, and healthcare. 
Find a distributor of Sikkens furniture or wood finishes. It is expensive, but very well worth the investment.  You will appreciate the long life this product provides.

DoubleEgger

+1 on the Sikkens

Sonny3

My table was built by the same folks. Good quality. Congrats. I put 5 coats of Marine Spar Varnish on mine. LOWES carries a true marine grade clear glossy varnish. I think its about $16 per quart and I used 2. FWIW. When I get home I'll post a pic.

Toxarch

The guy at Rockler said the best stuff they carry for outdoor is Man O' War Marine Spar Varnish. That's what I am using. You can buy it on Amazon.

chrisc133

Sonny3 said:

My table was built by the same folks. Good quality. Congrats. I put 5 coats of Marine Spar Varnish on mine. LOWES carries a true marine grade clear glossy varnish. I think its about $16 per quart and I used 2. FWIW. When I get home I'll post a pic.

@Sonny3 did you stain your table before applying the varnish?  What varnish are you using from lowes?

YukonRon

chrisc133 said:

Sonny3 said:

My table was built by the same folks. Good quality. Congrats. I put 5 coats of Marine Spar Varnish on mine. LOWES carries a true marine grade clear glossy varnish. I think its about $16 per quart and I used 2. FWIW. When I get home I'll post a pic.

@Sonny3 did you stain your table before applying the varnish?  What varnish are you using from lowes?

This is exactly what I am talking about. With Sikkens, there is ko need to do multiple applications, and the durability exceeds anything that is out there for marine or outdoor applications. Whatever.
Half the time, half the material. You figure it out on the performance vs cost.

Sonny3

I did not know about Sikkens when I started to do my table.  It sure would have saved me a lot of work.  I put 5 coats on it and sanded with 320 in between.  I am happy with the way it turned out though. Yes, it was work, but I am just an old retired guy and time is something I have lots of.  And it was the first time I had really tried to finish off something that might be considered furniture.


I did not stain it, I wanted the beauty of the cypress to come through.

YukonRon

@Sonny3  - Table looks killer. You did a wonderful job, I am sure it will be fine for years to come. The wood looks beautiful, and cypress is a very pleasing material to work with, due to the appearance, and the final result.
320 to sand, makes a nice surface. You can tell it was a labor of love.

Sikkens is a very old Dutch company. They got their start painting coaches for European aristocracy, in the 1600s. If you have ever spent a winter in The Netherlands, specifically Amsterdam, (the city of islands) you would understand why the Dutch are particular about wood coatings. 

Not many people are familiar with the Sikkens product, however, the high end furniture manufacturers and around 70% of the upper end marine (global basis) market utilize Sikkens. 

Quick qualifier here.... I built a deck, several years ago, when I lived in Georgia. Every piece of lumber used was given two coats of Sikkens. Then it was assembled. I moved from Georgia to Kentucky about 10 years ago. I was recently back in Georgia on business and had the opportunity to visit the current homeowners. To this day, they still have people coming up to their door asking them what is on their deck. It has not been retouched. One top rail was replaced due to storm damage. They used something else initially to coat it. After a year, he replaced the board and used Sikkens. No problems since.

If my previous response or even this response, appears offensive, they, in no way, were intended to be. I occasionally get over exuberant when I try to help. It is the OCD in me.

chrisc133

YukonRon said:

chrisc133 said:

Sonny3 said:

My table was built by the same folks. Good quality. Congrats. I put 5 coats of Marine Spar Varnish on mine. LOWES carries a true marine grade clear glossy varnish. I think its about $16 per quart and I used 2. FWIW. When I get home I'll post a pic.

@Sonny3 did you stain your table before applying the varnish?  What varnish are you using from lowes?

This is exactly what I am talking about. With Sikkens, there is ko need to do multiple applications, and the durability exceeds anything that is out there for marine or outdoor applications. Whatever.
Half the time, half the material. You figure it out on the performance vs cost.

@YukonRon is this the product you're talking about?  They have a few different products. 



 Or something out of this line?

http://www.perfectwoodstains.com/products/deck-stain

What part of Georgia did you live in?

chrisc133

@Sonny3 your table looks great. For the price of their tables--I don't think they can be beat. Do you cover your table?  If so, where did you find a cover?

YukonRon

chrisc133 said:

YukonRon said:

chrisc133 said:

Sonny3 said:

My table was built by the same folks. Good quality. Congrats. I put 5 coats of Marine Spar Varnish on mine. LOWES carries a true marine grade clear glossy varnish. I think its about $16 per quart and I used 2. FWIW. When I get home I'll post a pic.

@Sonny3 did you stain your table before applying the varnish?  What varnish are you using from lowes?

This is exactly what I am talking about. With Sikkens, there is ko need to do multiple applications, and the durability exceeds anything that is out there for marine or outdoor applications. Whatever.
Half the time, half the material. You figure it out on the performance vs cost.

@YukonRon is this the product you're talking about?  They have a few different products. 



 Or something out of this line?

http://www.perfectwoodstains.com/products/deck-stain

What part of Georgia did you live in?

Northeast of Atlanta in Gwinnett county. I used the translucent deck stains. Awesome material, incredible durability, easy to work with. I did not put a protective clear on it. You could stain and clear or just go straight to marine clear. Either way you will get something long lasting and beautiful, for years to come.
I do not know if you recall, several years ago, there was an all Female team that qualified for the yacht racing event, "America's Cup. " Very cool design on the boat, painted exclusively with Sikkens. Many of the boats competing today  painted with Sikkens.
Also, Dale Earnhardt's car, the black number 3 was painted in Silkens automotive refinishes. FWIW.

Sonny3

@chrisc133, I don't plan to cover the table.  I have a patio lanai where I can roll it out from under the cover when I cook and then roll it back when I am done.  I have thought about a cover and think I would call a mobile boat cover maker to come out and make one to custom fit it.  Then again, after seeing so many of the great outdoor designs of this site, I am already thinking about the next design.

@yYukonRon, no harm no foul.  I found nothing offensive in you great description of the recommended product.  I only wish I had know about it, that's what I was saying.  I was just a day late and dollar short in finding all of the great knowledge of this forum.

jimithing

I used Sikkens Cetol 1 RE when I built my table.  It's only been about 6 months but so far so good.  I liked the fact that you can choose from different colors.  I brought in a scrap piece of wood to my local dealer and they painted 4 or 5 different colors on there so I could see what they'd look like against my cedar.

http://www.perfectwoodstains.com/view-product/cetol-1-re

chrisc133

jimithing said:

I used Sikkens Cetol 1 RE when I built my table.  It's only been about 6 months but so far so good.  I liked the fact that you can choose from different colors.  I brought in a scrap piece of wood to my local dealer and they painted 4 or 5 different colors on there so I could see what they'd look like against my cedar.

http://www.perfectwoodstains.com/view-product/cetol-1-re


 

@YukonRon I just got off the phone with Sikkens and he recommended the Cetol 1RE.  Said to apply one coat--wait 24 hours--and then apply a second coat.  He said to make sure to only apply 2 coats as any additional coats will mess it up.  He said it would need a reapplication every 4 years or so when the sheen wears.  He said the advantage of the Sikkens over a Spar varnish is that it's not as brittle and doesn't need as many coats.

@jimithing is your table exposed to the elements?  Do you cover it?  Since you've used this product--any other advice/recommendations?

YukonRon

@Sonny3 Did he give you recommendations on surface prep? Grit sizes etc?

chrisc133

@YukonRon I think you meant that to me.  

I didn't ask about surface prep--I'll have to give them a call back unless the paint store here can provide those details--but he said no sanding.  Just one application--wait 24 hours--and apply again.

nolaegghead

I sanded to 120, applied two coats of marine epoxy, sanding between coats, then 3 coats of spar, sanding lightly 120 - 240 between coats.   3 years later, looks almost like new.   I'll post a followup thread at some time.

YukonRon

Do you have access to compressed air? The reason why I ask, is as some have mentioned previously, sanding helps define the grain of the wood when finishing. Compressed air will do a marvelous job removing sanding dust from the surface. I did a ton of prep work on my deck. I took the sanding from 120 to 240 to 360 to 400 and final sanded at 500. Used compressed air to blow off all surfaces, then added one wet coat, checked for areas that needed a slight touch up, or additional sanding, cleaned if necessary, then applied a second wet coat. The results were beautiful, just beautiful. I did not touch it for three days, the surface was rock hard.
All the work is in the prep for any type of finish.

DoubleEgger

YukonRon said:

All the work is in the prep for any type of finish.

Amen brother! 

nolaegghead

You can use a vacuum to remove dust after you sand if you don't have compressed air.  You just want to remove the dust that will get picked up when painting.

I usually just sand to 120.  I'll go up a little higher if it's a hardwood that's going to get a glossy finish - 220-ish area.   Most professional woodworkers don't go over 180 in the initial prep. 

The finer you sand, the less stain you'll pick up, so if you want a lighter stain, sand up to a finer grit.

nolaegghead

Well, this is a long read, but informative.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/rules_for_sanding_wood

DoubleEgger

I used a couple of tack clothes when I finished my table and they worked well. 

jimithing

chrisc133 said:

jimithing said:

I used Sikkens Cetol 1 RE when I built my table.  It's only been about 6 months but so far so good.  I liked the fact that you can choose from different colors.  I brought in a scrap piece of wood to my local dealer and they painted 4 or 5 different colors on there so I could see what they'd look like against my cedar.

http://www.perfectwoodstains.com/view-product/cetol-1-re


 

@YukonRon I just got off the phone with Sikkens and he recommended the Cetol 1RE.  Said to apply one coat--wait 24 hours--and then apply a second coat.  He said to make sure to only apply 2 coats as any additional coats will mess it up.  He said it would need a reapplication every 4 years or so when the sheen wears.  He said the advantage of the Sikkens over a Spar varnish is that it's not as brittle and doesn't need as many coats.

@jimithing is your table exposed to the elements?  Do you cover it?  Since you've used this product--any other advice/recommendations?

@chrisc133I read up on their recommended process for outdoor furniture and followed it almost exactly.  This was my process:

Bought all the wood and let it sit for a couple of weeks so it would dry out a little.  I bought almost all rough cut wood so I sanded all the wood to 80 grit.  I did this with an orbital sander and it was a huge pain in the rear.  It would have been much easier with an electric planer but I didn't have one at my disposal and wasn't going to buy one.  Then I cut the wood and assembled the table.  I have a small kid so I had to work on this for a couple hours at a time on weekends where we didn't have much going.  Consequently it took me 1.5 months to build my table.

Once the table was built I did the wood prep process that Sikkens recommends.  You use TSB, bleach and water in a sprayer and spray it all over the wood.  Let it soak for a few minutes and scrub it with a bristle brush - nothing that would dent the wood.  Then you have to power wash it off.  They say a regular garden hose with a sprayer isn't good enough.  Must be a power washer.  Using the power washer made the grain rise on the wood again so once the table had dried for about a week I sanded it again.  This time with 120.  I really only sanded the parts that I was going to touch or see.  I blew as much of the sawdust off as I could.  Then i wiped it down with a damp rag to pick up any remaining sawdust. 

At that point I put my first coat on.  It was just starting to be spring at this point so it wasn't real warm outside.  It took it a while to dry to the point where I thought I should put another coat on.  Maybe 3 or 4 days.  I put on the second coat and went to Hawaii for a week.  When I came back it was dry and ready to go.

I'm pretty happy with the way it looks right now.  After the 2nd coat dried the vertical surfaces looked perfect.  The horizontal surfaces showed a little bit of brush strokes where the stain didn't quite all absorb.  I don't know if that's because I put the first coat on too heavy or what.  It was only really noticeable if you were looking at it from 2 feet away.  Those have blended in over time and I can't see them at all now.  So it looks great right now.  I do not have a cover on it.  This spring we got something like 30 inches of rain in a single month.  The last month or so it's been in the high 90's, low 100's and direct sunshine and it still looks great.  I'm very happy with the way it looks right now, hopefully it holds up as well as everyone says it does.

You can see a couple pictures of it stained here

http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1182044/my-xl-table-build/p1

My suggestions would be to follow their recommended process and have your dealer put some sample colors on a test piece of wood so you won't be surprised by the color you end up with.

BeerNBBQ

I'm gonna sneak in on this thread because I don't want to create one similiar, I have a table that was gifted to me. Its made of pine.. i've heard bad things about staining pine. I've also read that if you use wood conditioner this should alleviate dark spots. Any thoughts or tips? ( Sorry to hijack your thread ChrisC.) Thanks for any help guys.

chrisc133

@jimithing thanks for the info. 
@BeerNBBQ no problem...ask away. Lot of good advice coming out on this thread. 

Toxarch

Use compressed air if you have it, gets a lot of the loose stuff off. Then use a rag to wipe it down. I used a microfiber cloth. Then use a tack cloth. This is a must and they are like $1 for 2 of them at Home Depot ir Lowes. I cut them in half so it was 4 to a packet for me. It will get all the remaining loose dust off. It's cheap and easy to wipe it down.

Toxarch

@BeerNBBQ Mine is pine. Use a presealer and you will be fine. There's one for oil based and one for water based so buy the right one. Minwax brand works fine. Brush it on liberally and let it soak for 20 minutes. Then wipe it down. Wait about an hour and then stain or varnish. You will get great results.

BeerNBBQ

Toxarch said:

@BeerNBBQ Mine is pine. Use a presealer and you will be fine. There's one for oil based and one for water based so buy the right one. Minwax brand works fine. Brush it on liberally and let it soak for 20 minutes. Then wipe it down. Wait about an hour and then stain or varnish. You will get great results.

Thanks for the info!

Big_Green_Craig

Beautiful table!