I don't care....

johnkitchens

I am a southerner and have lived in Georgia my entire life. I am not a redneck and have tried hard to avoid the redneck lifestyle that is so prevalent here. 

With that being said my family roots are traced back to humble and poor people that were laborers and sharecroppers. My paternal grandfather born in 1910 was the best man I have ever known and a sharecropper his entire life. He worked hard and barely got by. Thankfully my dad, his son, was able to lead an easier life and was able to retire at age 50. 

My life has been great. Financially and otherwise. I have no warm and fuzzy feeling for the rebel flag. When I see it here locally it is usually in the yard of the stereotypical trailer or house that you think it would be in. In other words redneck central. 

I would never fly one because I don't want to be lumped in with the other local rednecks and hicks that do fly one and because I have no reason or desire to fly one. 

In all honesty most of the people here in my part of Georgia that fly them, and there aren't many, are uneducated and poor, but the message from them isn't about states rights. It is a message to blacks to let them know how the person feels. 

My problem is that the war cry to take it down is an infringement. The rednecks and hicks do have the right to fly it. 

I think it is dangerous to make people take something down just because you don't like it. Sure the flag has been perverted, but they still have the right to fly it. 

Just my take on it. The flag is a symbol that has been perverted for the wrong reasons. I don't like it, but I can't change it. I know a lot of people that think the rainbow has been hijacked as well. 

theyolksonyou

@johnkitchens while I agree with a lot of what you say, I know there are some who really feel it's a heritage. 

But your right, in those "stereotypical" places, it's racist idiots. 

Personally, I have no affinity for the flag. 

theyolksonyou

Also, back to @tonytiger 's early post. I really enjoy these off topic threads when we all act like adults(mostly). I enjoy the insights and viewpoints of people different from me. Although you won't change my beliefs or politics, it does open my eyes to a different perspective. 

Legume

Thanks for the post @johnkitchens

Maybe I've missed it - I only catch some of the news, but has there been a government push to ban the flag from private citizens or property? Or has it just been to remove it from flying officially over gov properties/bldgs?  I haven't seen anything saying the flags should be outlawed, banned from public use, etc.  I will say I've seen a strong reaction from businesses, etc. to take action, not always an informed position, probably more related to fear of losing money if they're somehow tainted by the flag.  Amazon, pure business decision.  I'm sure they looked at the revenue from selling items with the flag and it was an easy decision to not risk a backlash.  Pulling reruns of the Dukes of Hazard because of the flag on the car and probably elsewhere in the show is just an ignorant and fear-driven decision that really just makes the whole thing worse.  I wish someone would've just said - it's a paint job on a car in a show that's representative of the characters and the time and characters, stop losing your collective minds.  But, they need advertisers.

If there is a gov push to totally ban the flag everywhere, I'm right there with you.  But what I see is businesses bowing to the vocal public opinion (amplified by the media).  I have not seen anyone's rights at risk unless I missed it.

henapple

If anybody should sell the rebel flag... It's Walmart 

theyolksonyou

@legume as far as I know, you're on point. Other than the public grounds in SC. 

Apple pulled all apps with the flag including historical modeling educational app.  ridiculous  

Hiding the flag does not erase our history.   

Fred19Flintstone

henapple said:

As far as not understanding the south.. You won't unless you're  from here.

So it's kinda like grits, huh?

tarheelmatt

@johnkitchens what you describe is mostly true for those that want to stand for the flag for the wrong reasons.  

Don't take me the wrong way here guys and for some that have cast a stereotype on someone that defends the flag, etc.  I don't really care if the flag is up or not at the capital.  In the history books is fine with me.

I am just not fan of those that label southerners as uneducated, dumb, racist, and rednecks.  Are there plenty of folks that give it a bad name and really gives a reason to stereotype?  Sure, but the same can be said for an American too, who loves their flag.  Those that say negative comments about southerners are in the same place as those giving it a bad name.  

I do see the flag as heritage, and I am a proud southerner, period.  That doesn't mean I am a terrible person or a racist.  I have never traced my family, but I am sure some family do trace to that very war.  

If any have never read "A Confederate Catechism, The War of 1861-1865", please do if you long for interesting facts of the war.  

What was the cause of the secession?  The south wanted peace and not war, but wasn't the root cause of war.  

The cause of the war was the the right of secession and the denial of self government.  Lincoln bypassed congress and sent armies to the south.  The south fought to repel invasion and for self-government.  


http://www.scv.org/pdf/ConfederateCatechism.pdf

johnkitchens

@legume you are right concerning the fact that as far as I know they aren't trying to ban private citizens from owning and flying the flag.

Like you mentioned pulling the Dukes of Hazzard off of TV Land is stupid! 

johnkitchens

I agree @tarheelmatt. 

caliking

tarheelmatt said:

caliking said:

it's not the state flag of SC, so why is it flying on state property?

And if folks really want to have a  go at it, why don't they work on convincing groups like the KKK and other yahoo's from misappropriating symbols of their heritage? I'm sure Billy Bob could help, seeing as how he so cleverly duped a Wal-mart employee into making his ISIS cake.

Second paragraph is a little stereotypical. 

Fact is you cannot fix stupid, period. 

Not that much actually...

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/kkk-rally-july-over-confederate-flag

theyolksonyou

1.  Msnbc for non partisan link, really?
2.  No mention of anyone named "billy bob" in the article. In fact, the only actual Billy bob I know is an actor formally married to Bradd Pitts current wife, and I know A LOT of southerners. 

johnkitchens

caliking said:

tarheelmatt said:

caliking said:

it's not the state flag of SC, so why is it flying on state property?

And if folks really want to have a  go at it, why don't they work on convincing groups like the KKK and other yahoo's from misappropriating symbols of their heritage? I'm sure Billy Bob could help, seeing as how he so cleverly duped a Wal-mart employee into making his ISIS cake.

Second paragraph is a little stereotypical. 

Fact is you cannot fix stupid, period. 

Not that much actually...

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/kkk-rally-july-over-confederate-flag

@caliking I don't get your point here at all. Of course the KKK has always used the confederate flag as their symbol. They are a bunch of idiots and no one can dispute that. 

How can we, average citizen's, convince these hate groups not to use the flag? We can't. 

Of course msnbc being the left wing organization that it is will report on this stupidity. 

I will say this though. All of these people demanding the flag be removed and now having tv shows taken off the air just because it shows a flag on a car are putting fuel on the fire. They are giving these groups just another reason to spew their hatred. 

NPHuskerFL

We have officially banned TV Land. Banned Dukes Of Hazard. Wow. Weak

tarheelmatt

caliking said:

tarheelmatt said:

caliking said:

it's not the state flag of SC, so why is it flying on state property?

And if folks really want to have a  go at it, why don't they work on convincing groups like the KKK and other yahoo's from misappropriating symbols of their heritage? I'm sure Billy Bob could help, seeing as how he so cleverly duped a Wal-mart employee into making his ISIS cake.

Second paragraph is a little stereotypical. 

Fact is you cannot fix stupid, period. 

Not that much actually...

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/kkk-rally-july-over-confederate-flag

Okay, but did you read it?  I didn't catch anything about they're marching because of racism.   

bgebrent

The mods cannot be far now!  Great discussion btw!  Too bad this isn't the national discussion.

caliking

@johnkitchens - the point I was trying to make is that activism in support of the flag should also take a look at groups that have misappropriated it, if they want to reclaim a symbol of their heritage.

I don't see why the government should have any obligation to fly the flag. If private citizens want to fly it, take pictures with it, make their own, etc. that is their prerogative, and I don't think that is being outlawed. If company shareholders want to make companies sell or display the flag and paraphernalia, then there are channels for them to try and do that.

The news that kicked off the predecessor to this thread was reported by Fox News... an impartial, centrist, reliable news source.

(Do we have an emoticon for sarcasm?)

johnkitchens

caliking said:

@johnkitchens - the point I was trying to make is that activism in support of the flag should also take a look at groups that have misappropriated it, if they want to reclaim a symbol of their heritage.

I don't see why the government should have any obligation to fly the flag. If private citizens want to fly it, take pictures with it, make their own, etc. that is their prerogative, and I don't think that is being outlawed. If company shareholders want to make companies sell or display the flag and paraphernalia, then there are channels for them to try and do that.

The news that kicked off the predecessor to this thread was reported by Fox News... an impartial, centrist, reliable news source.

(Do we have an emoticon for sarcasm?)

Like I said the flag can't be reclaimed from the KKK. How could it? 

Sorry if you got offended by me calling me MSNBC a left wing organization. (I don't do sarcasm.) 

theyolksonyou

But @caliking that billy bob comment wouldn't fly if one of us ignorant rednecks used a name associated with another ethnic group in that manner. That's my point.   fvck the KKK, THEY DONT REPRESENT THE REAL SOUTH

tarheelmatt

theyolksonyou said:

But @caliking that billy bob comment wouldn't fly if one of us ignorant rednecks used a name associated with another ethnic group in that manner. That's my point.   fvck the KKK, THEY DONT REPRESENT THE REAL SOUTH

You hit the nail on the head Jason.  Several comments have been made towards "southerners" in a negative way and personally, I am not down with that.  In my opinion you're just as much as a bigot as the ones spewing the hate.  

Legume

Wait, wait, wait, we nearly missed something huge here.

johnkitchens said:

(I don't do sarcasm.) 

WTH?

johnkitchens

Legume said:

Wait, wait, wait, we nearly missed something huge here.

johnkitchens said:

(I don't do sarcasm.) 

WTH?

Cali mentioned a sarcasm emoticon. I am just saying I don't need one.

bgebrent

It's really pretty simple to grasp both (all) sides of this debate/argument/discussion.  The vast majority of southerners are not racist. I speak as a by birth Yankee transplant. I comprehend why some southerners take pride in the stars and bars flag as a symbol of a war memorial.  Exactly why it will still fly at stone mountain as a war memorial flag.  That stupid people chose it, no, usurped it for their heinous cause is on them and their beliefs, not the emblem.  The flag is a memorial flag.  Too damned much political correctness today.  Live and let live.  Recognize the history and be true to the real/original meaning of flag and understand it means way more than any idiotic racist banner.  Private parties are and should be able to do what they want.  States the same, within the law.  Just because ISIS usurped the Muslim religion...

Sardonicus

johnkitchens said: Of course the KKK has always used the confederate flag as their symbol. . . and no one can dispute that.  

And before that, a group of seditious states used the confederate flag (choose your version) as their symbol while they waged war with the PRIMARY aim of preserving their practice of enslaving negroes.

It is no surprise that the KKKlan, having views regarding negroes Very Much akin to those who fought beneath that/those Confederate flag(s), would adopt same as one of their banners.

It is equally unsurprising that descendants of those negroes, in the 21st Century often referred to as African-Americans, find that emblem to be malevolent in nature, intent, and spirit.

I don't blame 'em

one bit.

NPHuskerFL

Glad I grew up with this

And not this


Say what you will.  If some dude wants furry man love I don't give a care!  When did being gay or bisexual become cool?  I'm not judging but, that show wasn't built on racism. I'm so over this idiocracy of being PC. Absolutely ridiculous. 

johnkitchens

I totally agree Blake. 

theyolksonyou

@Sardonicus I don't blame them either, but there are MANY people here in the south whose ancestors did not own slaves and didn't have a chance in hell of ever being wealthy enough to own slaves that fought in the war for reasons we may never know.  Those folks want to memorialize their ancestors and I see their point as well. 

I dont think there a person on this thread that would say slavery is a good thing or that racism doesn't exist in this world, this country or the south.  Not only is it white on black, it's white on Hispanic, Asian, Indian etc...  And even though it's not really discussed, it goes both ways, cause if we're honest and mature, we all have our prejudices.  And before you light into me with white privilege, you're damn right, I have an advantage as a white male. 

Legume

yeah, but are we sure they were brothers?

DoubleEgger

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xLpfbcXTeo8

theyolksonyou

Legume said:

yeah, but are we sure they were brothers?

Maybe with that second flag they were brothers like on HGTV?