First cook - Not sure where I went wrong

boomchke

I apologize for the detail here but I wanted to get all the info I could in here...

Got the XL BGE a couple days ago and did a couple of non-food test cooks on it.  Played around with getting the temp where I wanted it and making sure I could maintain it.  Seemed to work well and I was pleased with how well it was holding temp.  So for my first cook - I decided (for better or worse) to try an indirect cook of a marinated pork tenderloin followed up with some grilled veggies.  

I figured it would take ~45 minutes to get the grill ready so I took the tenderloin out about 15 minutes before I started the grill to get it up to room temp by the time I throw it on.  I put lump in the grill and mixed in about 8 or 9 pieces (total) of apple and hickory wood chunks.  I used lighter cubes and lit the grill in 3 different places.  

So heres where Im wondering if I went wrong....

I put put the plate setter and the grill back in right away, closed the egg, left the bottom damper open full and the put the daisy wheel on top but left it fully open.  I waited for the grill to get to the temp I wanted (210) and then started experimenting with the dampers until the grill locked in at the temp I wanted.  Im using a remote ambient temp probe and after about 45 minutes things had stabilized and the white smoke seemed to go away.  In fact, all smoke seemed to go away.  I could feel heat coming out of the top, but I didnt see any 'blue' smoke.  I know some people say its really hard to see so I figured I was good and just couldnt see it in the light I was in.  

So I put the meat on with an internal meat probe and shut the lid.  The inside grill temp came back where I wanted it and stayed there for the most part.  I tweaked the vents a couple of times since it was trending up or down away from my target temp...  Im wondering if this was part of my problem now...

So I just left it.  Waited for the internal temp of the meat to get to 150, then opened it up and expected to see a glorious chunk of perfectly grilled meat.  Not the case, the tenderloin looked un-cooked on the outside.  I guess I was expecting something looking like this -> http://www.smoking-meat.com/image-files/smoked-pork-tenderloin-juicy.jpg

So I ended up taking the plate setter out to cook the veggies and thought I'd throw the meat on with it to cook the outside a little too.  When I took the plate setter out I noticed that at least 1/3 of the lump hadnt lit.  I opened the dampers a bit to get the temp up to cook the veggies and most of the lump then started which I think caused my veggies to get the bitter white smoke taste.  The meat actually turned out pretty well actually, I mean, it was edible.  The veggies were awful.

So here are my questions....

-It seems apparent that I lit the grill wrong since a large portion of the lump wasnt lit after almost 2 hours.  Im assuming this is an issue and likely what caused the white smoke later in the cook as it was lighting?

-Is there a difference in how you light the grill for low temp vs higher temp cooks?  Should I put the daisy wheel, plate setter, and grill in right away?  Or let things get going before I do all that?

-I guess this was an assumption I had, but should I make sure all the lump and wood is lit before trying to get to my target temp?

-Is it possible that I just didnt have enough lump in the egg?  I dont think I loaded it up to the top of the fire ring.  Should it be each time?  Im wondering if this is why I had to mess with the dampers to keep the temperature from going up and down...

It just seemed like 2 hours into a cook I shouldnt have white smoke coming out of the egg.  I mean - it was sort of like being around a campfire.  Any advice would be appreciated!

ryantt

I let my xl going with a webber  chimney for high temp cooks.  3/4 of it full with lump light and the spread that out over my lump wait 10 min and it's ready to run for steaks.  Now for a low temp cook I use 1 or 2 starter cubes, let it run maybe 5min with lid open and put my plate starter in and dial in my temp.  Now make sure not to go over your target as it takes forever to l cool the egg down.  

On my xl 210 is almost impossible to hold.  It's better for me to settle in at 250ish. 

On a low temp cook it's not uncommon for your lump not all to light.  I've gone 12-14 hrs at 250 and only 1/2 my lump was going when I finished.   

I know people with way  more egg knowledge will comment, keep egging and post photos of the cooks.  It helps the group diagnose the issues.   

Hawg Fan

Welcome to the forum.  It sounds like you did everything correctly when building the fire if you were going for a low and slow cook of 225-250 degrees.  You should have let the egg get stabilized at 400 degrees DIRECT for a pork tenderloin.  PT is a quick cook that needs to be grilled and turned frequently.  Grilled vegetables should also be cooked direct at 400-450.  If your egg is stabilized at a higher temp, you won't need to worry about the VOC smoke over powering your cook.  Hope that helps.

GregW

cooking indirectly does not require all the lump to be lit.
And in my experience I have found that I don't need to be to the top of the fire ring with charcoal to cook something as small at a tenderloin.
I do think since all the charcoal had not ignited it did cause the bad smoke you describe at the end of the cook.
I do light my egg differently depending if I doing a low or high temp cook.
I light on one portion of the lump if I'm doing low and wait until the temp is stable to put the food on.
If I'm doing high temp I want all the coals burning and glowing red.

It's hard to get any kind of crust on a tenderloin unless you put something like a rub with a little sugar in it or a sauce. Particularly in a completely indirect cook. The tenderloin doesn't have a fat cap to help a bark to form like you would see on a pork butt.

Philly35

^^What he said. Also, that's a lot of wood chunks for a tenderloin. 

Theres no need for all the lump to be lit. If it was, that would be one hot fire! Vocs will burn of with heat, no need to have the lump lit for it to burn off-radiant heat will do it. What kind of limb were you using?

Mattman3969

Your lump was only burning what was needed to maintain the 210 temp that you were aiming for. You can't have a low temp fire with a bunch of lump burning.  

The loin didn't look like what you linked to because you were cooking indirect but my guess is that it wasn't far off after the direct portion of the cook.  

The 2nd round of white should have cleared fairly quickly.  You were lighting more lump and prolly more smoke wood that hadn't burned on phase 1 of your cook. This is what messed with the veggies and veggies take on smoke really easy especially if you used Olive Oil on them.  

I I start my fires the same for L&S or hot and fast. The only difference is when I start closing the vents. 

Theophan

I have had 2 BGEs for 4 or 5 years, I think, and LOVE them, but I don't consider myself an expert.  More knowledgeable people probably will join in.  But my thoughts, for what they're worth:

• On a low and slow cook, you don't expect all of the lump to be burning.  It burns in a fairly small place, usually, and then sort of moves into other parts of the lump.  So that wasn't a problem.
• Yes, for a higher heat direct cook, I do try to get the lump lit across the whole surface, if possible, and let it burn for a little while to get there if necessary.
• I've never had white smoke after the first 15 minutes or so.  It seems like even low-and-slow temps will drive that stuff out of the lump, even the part that hasn't burned yet.  So most of the time I don't get white smoke on the second time I light the same lump.  It seems like you put a whole lotta wood in that lump, and my guess is that when the temp and the fire started getting higher, more of the wood started smoldering and burning and you were getting more wood smoke from it, not "bad smoke."  Next time, try to smell the white smoke you get at first, and see whether you like the way it smells or not.  Then smell it again when you get the very thin blue smoke.  Then, if you get thicker smoke later in a cook like this time, after raising the temp, maybe, smell it again and see if it smells like the white smoke at the beginning.  My guess is that the smoke you got after 2 hours wasn't bad, and would only have provided a nice smoke flavor.
• I don't know how to help with the temp fluctuation, because I don't know why some people seem to see them and I don't.  Usually the dome temp stays steady as a rock for me.  I hope someone else can help with this.  For a low and slow I usually fill to the top of the fire ring, just as you did.

jtcBoynton

At low and slow temps, only a small portion of the lump will be burning at a time.  What you saw is normal. It doesn't take much to maintain a 215-225° temp.  

Nanook

Nothing wrong with cooking pork tenderloin indirect. Both direct or indirect will work, but you're better off to cook at around 375°-400°. 8 or 9 chunks of wood is A LOT for a cook that should take 45-60 minutes. You will find that the VOC's will burn off a lot quicker at that temp then at 210°. I'm sure some of the members with way more experience than me will chime in and offer their thoughts and advice. 

SoCalTim

I can close my eyes and still my first cook mega disaster. Boy I've come a long way. My learning curve on the egg was close to 6 months. It's only now - some 3 years later that I feel very confident with my egg. Today, I control the egg, it doesn't control me. 

YukonRon

SoCalTim said:

I can close my eyes and still my first cook mega disaster. Boy I've come a long way. My learning curve on the egg was close to 6 months. It's only now - some 3 years later that I feel very confident with my egg. Today, I control the egg, it doesn't control me. 

No freaking way do I control the egg. My checking account can testify to that. I am like a moth to a flame. I got issues. I have a recliner with a 30 oz Yeti cup holder for therapy. 

stemc33

I would of went with raised direct at 375-425. Basically wherever the egg settled in at between those temps. 

Did you fill to the top of the fire ring or top of firebox? For cooks less than a couple of hours, I only use a firebox full. Comes up to temp faster and gives me distance from the direct heat.

What was your dome temp? I use my iGrill2 ambient probe but it's just to see if I'm losing or gaining temp without having to go outside on crappy days. I use dome temp for dialing in desired cooking temperature. I only use one or two small chunks for cuts like a tenderloin. I probably would of used chips so the smoke would of cleared before the veggies went on. 

In addition to the large quantity of smoke wood, the moisture content of your smoking chunks could of caused more smoke. My guess is that when you adjusted the vents, the wood started to smolder. 

@SoCalTim hit the nail on the head about the learning curve. I've learned a lot in the last two years and have a long way to go. Just enjoy the journey and make adjustments as you go. 

gdenby

Actually, for a 1st cook, it didn't go too bad. I think your temp control was quite good.

I think the main problems are more a matter of method. As @Hawg Fan mentioned, tenderloin is better suited to a higher temp, direct cook. At low temps, it will take hours for Maillard reactions to brown the meat, and there's not enough fat or collagen in a tenderloin to keep it from drying out. As mentioned above, the brief period direct helped that.

When the platesetter was removed for the vegetables, the air flow changed, and a huge mas of oxygen kindled more lump, and possibly started some of the wood burning. On of the remarkable things about ceramic cookers is that the air flow is so well controlled during a lo-slo that only the carbon in the lump gets enough oxygen to burn. Any smoke wood, or wood remnants in the lump "pyrolize." When that happens, the wood decomposes directly into the good flavor vapors. There is little of vapor that comes from partial combustion.

One thing you might have done is to simply put the veggies over the gaps at the rim of the 'setter. The air there is a good bit hotter than up in the done. Alternatively, have a 2 tier grill set-up, and place some sort of block on the lower grill to make an indirect area above. A simple aluminum pan will be fine. The food in the "shade" will cook at the ambient temp, but the food exposed to the glow of the lump will be getting 400-600 on the bottom side.

boomchke

Thanks for all the feedback!  I wanted to summarize a couple of points and make sure I got it right...

-I had too much smoking wood in the egg.  Sounds like I definitely put too much wood in the egg.  Im assuming this is what caused the white smoke later on.  Some of you have suggested to use wood, but only a couple of chunks or chips for cooks that aren't going to be very long if I want smoke flavor.

-It sounds like the VOCs can burn off of lump and wood in the grill that hasnt lit yet meaning that there wont be an issue with the lump and wood not all being lit at the same time.  That's great to know.

-As to the white smoke. It sounds like this isnt necessarily a bad thing.  That is, it could just be some of the smoking wood lighting or smoldering later on in the cook.  Im sure it will take time to learn, but it sounds like the real test is seeing what the smoke smells like to see if it is good or bad.  Im assuming that the 'campfire' like smoke I detected when I tried the veggies was the bad smoke smell.  

-The tenderloin could have been done indirect, but probably at a higher temperature which also would have cleared the white smoke sooner.  

I think for my next cook Im going to try not using any smoking wood at all to get a better idea of what the smoke should be like on the grill in general.  I was a little discouraged when I took the plate setter out and got the temp up that it seemed to have a heavy 'campfire' like smell with lots of white smoke.  It makes sense to me that more of the lump lit when I opened the dampers which caused some of the smoking wood to light but I would have thought by then that all of the VOCs would have been gone too.  

So - Perhaps the smoking was going well, but when I let all of the air in the rest of the wood caught and caused the unlit wood to catch fire.  And perhaps that wood had not yet had all the VOCs cleared from it since I wasnt at a very high temperature.

It just seemed like I had too much smoke period, so Im wondering if that was all because of the smoking wood or just what to expect when using lump.

Thanks again for all the tips, I'll do some more test cooks and see what I get.

Thanks!

TexanOfTheNorth

Sounds like you've come away with the main points brought up in the various responses. Definitely... use less smoking wood.

Make sure you let us know how your next cook(s) go and Welcome!

theyolksonyou

You summed it up well.




admittedly, I haven't read all the thread so this may be a repeat, but don't sweat small +/- 25 degrees. You'll work and worry yourself silly and it just doesn't matter much. 


Good idea idea to try a cook no wood. Most of what I cook, I use lump only. Especially quick cook like tenderloin. 

gdenby

There was a fellow posting here a short time ago, I forget his tag, but he was w. Rockwood lump, as I recall. He clarified that there are VOCs and then again, their are other Vocs.  As I understand it, the worst stuff is produced during partial combustion of wood. When this happens in a campfire, the high heat from the flames (some of which are the VOCs themselves burning) don't allow much of the chemicals to settle on the food. The worst environment is a smouldering fire. Lots of unburnt volatile chemicals, many toxic, often lots of moisture creating creosote, etc. Some of the heavy "white" smoke is just condensing steam. W. use, you will see creosote hairs build up around the top vent of the Egg. In my view, this is yet another reason to be happy that the Egg doesn't require fluid filled drip pans.

Lump is not pure carbon. Even the best, binchotan from Japan, is 95% carbon. I think the rule for lump produced in the States is a minimum of 85%. I've read that some still made in non-industrial places can be about 70%. So there will always be some fumes. But if the lump was well made, not only will there be high levels of carbon, but the residues are comprised of chemicals that are not as problematic. I've read that in the States, there are places which mandate the smoke from opened charcoal kilns be completely burnt in a natural gas flame, so as to reduce air pollution levels.

BYS1981

I don't know what your experience with grilling and bbq was prior to perchance the egg, so I'll go off my experience. My first real grill was a Brinkman propane rig followed by the egg, I was green those 5 years ago. 

What I did and found most helpful was started a meat journal, I wrote down key items like temp I cooked at, rub I used, etc. I then only changed one variable at once until I got results I liked. Not only did I get comfortable with the egg I began seeing a trend of what temperature was my money maker. 

I also found my family does not like smoke, so I rarely use it and when I do it is on big cooks like a butt or brisket.

I don't think charcoal matters as much as most here do, I used to primarily use best of the west mesquite lump and I found it was ok for normal cooks. However, I did find I preferred a dense wood for overnight cooks and over time I have only stocked kamado joe red bag lump to avoid worrying about 2 lumps.

My main point is there are many ways to use the egg, and the key is to find the way you and your family like to eat. 

dougcrann

Sure this has been mentioned...TBS, the mythical wonder. I never see any thin blue smoke on ours. I know everyone goes on about a perfect smoke ring...shame it does nothing for the flavor. 
As others have no doubt said already, patience is the key to temperature control. If you overshoot your target by more than a few degrees pretty much forget about getting the Egg to drop. But I honestly don't taste a bit of difference in something cooked at 225* and the same cut of meat cooked at 275*. 
When going low and slow light a small fire. I normally put the place setter/cooking grate in and shut the lid right away. Leave both vents wide open. Assuming I want a 225* grate temperature I will shut the DW at 175*, then the bottom at 200* or so. I give the Egg an hour or so to come up to temperature and stabilize. DW set so that the tear drops are barely cracked open and the bottom about the thickness of a credit card.  Will hold 225* til it burns out of fuel. 
My other method. Light small fire, set placesetter/cooking grate up. Set up the DigiQue and walk away.

stlcharcoal

gdenby said:

There was a fellow posting here a short time ago, I forget his tag, but he was w. Rockwood lump, as I recall. He clarified that there are VOCs and then again, their are other Vocs.  As I understand it, the worst stuff is produced during partial combustion of wood. When this happens in a campfire, the high heat from the flames (some of which are the VOCs themselves burning) don't allow much of the chemicals to settle on the food. The worst environment is a smouldering fire. Lots of unburnt volatile chemicals, many toxic, often lots of moisture creating creosote, etc. Some of the heavy "white" smoke is just condensing steam. W. use, you will see creosote hairs build up around the top vent of the Egg. In my view, this is yet another reason to be happy that the Egg doesn't require fluid filled drip pans.

Lump is not pure carbon. Even the best, binchotan from Japan, is 95% carbon. I think the rule for lump produced in the States is a minimum of 85%. I've read that some still made in non-industrial places can be about 70%. So there will always be some fumes. But if the lump was well made, not only will there be high levels of carbon, but the residues are comprised of chemicals that are not as problematic. I've read that in the States, there are places which mandate the smoke from opened charcoal kilns be completely burnt in a natural gas flame, so as to reduce air pollution levels.

I don't really know what to say about VOCs.  On this forum, they have been adopted to be ANY white smoke that you see.  They are and they aren't.  If the lump was kilned long enough and at a high enough temp, the bad stuff is already gone......what you're seeing is the remaining wood burning off.  Just smell it--if it smells like hardwood, it's wood; if it's a really pungent/acrid, it's probably these VOCs people speak of.

VOC is a pretty general term--seems like EVERYTHING emits some that classifies as one.  Our stuff is kilned at 1200-1500F, so it burns out the heavy metals, lowers the butane, etc.  The stuff kilned at lower temps will have more of that crap still in it.

No real rules on carbon content.......but it's pretty obvious.  Shake the bag and if you here a metallic noise, it has a high carbon content.  Same deal if you drop it on the ground and it shatters--high carbon.  If it goes "thud", doesn't break, and smokes like crazy, it's still wood.  Ours averages about 80% and that's pretty high for something that comes in a paper bag.  Higher the carbon, the more fragile/brittle it is.

Some states require an emissions control or "afterburner" to burn all the particulate out of the smoke.  Each kiln has a collector that ducts to a propane fired burner which heats the smoke up at least 1570F (the minimum in MO.)  MO is the #1 charcoal producing state in the US and put those regs in place many years ago, but only shortly after the governor's family sold their charcoal plant.  What a coincidence.

Terrebandit

I use a good coating of rub and crank the heat up to at least 275.  I think 210 is way too low for this cook. 

Theophan

boomchke, no, you didn't necessarily put in too much wood.  Whether you put in too much wood or not depends on whether you liked the way the food tasted.  The point about it having been a large amount of wood was that it was probably the reason you got more visible smoke after you raised the temperature.  If the smoke smelled good, and you liked the way it tasted, then you didn't put in "too much" wood.

People are really different on how smoky they like things.  I don't usually want chicken to be super smoky, just a little.  But I have never had ribs or brisket that tasted too smoky to me, and I've often had both that I wished had been smokier.  The bottom line is whether you like the taste or not.

And as for cooking with no added wood, it seems to depend on the brand of lump.  I usually don't add any wood when I'm cooking chicken, because the BGE brand lump I use makes chicken taste a little smoky without any wood, and I love it that way.  Some people prefer brands of charcoal that apparently don't give any smoky flavor to food.  For me, I don't think I'd ever cook beef or pork without some wood in there.  Poultry or seafood it depends.  I add wood for jerk chicken, but not "plain" spatchcock chicken, for example.