I need advice on stain / sealant brand

Hoosier_Patriot

Hey Table EggHead Gurus,

I am just about done with my cedar table and am ready to put stain/sealant on it.  I went to Lowes and noticed a wide range in prices.  Olympic is like $25 a gallon but Thompson Water Seal was $10 a gallon (on clearance, I guess Lowes is dropping that product?).  

Any suggestions on these brands or do you prefer another?  Thanks

heartmedic

Sorry I can't help you with your stain, but love the table. I'm assuming this is the future home for your EGG. I am wanting to build a table for my EGG and was going to start looking around for plans and ideas. Is this your own or did you find this somewhere ?

bettysnephew

Do not waste money on the Thompson's, it is basically paraffin dissolved in mineral spirits. Spend the extra money and get the better stuff, your table will last much longer.

RRP

+1 what @bettysnephew said... But with a twist..Thompson's is just junk! It is one of the finest examples of marketing BS hyping an inferior product that has ever been perpetrated on the American consumer. I could tell you how I really feel about it but I'm too reserved of a guy! LOL

fergi

+2 what @bettysnephew said... Thompson's is a waste of time and money.

Hoosier_Patriot

@ HeartMedic:
Like you I had a hard time finding plans for all but the most basic of tables.  Fortunately I have a friend who is much better at woodworking than I am and he helped me.  I still don't have any plans, except for the ones in his head...

I will say that I went on Pintrest and got many ideas for what I wanted and came up with what you see here.  I'll post more pics when the whole thing is done.

Hoosier_Patriot

@ Bettsy'sNephew, Fergi, and RRP ... What brands do you consider "the good stuff"?

ksmyrl

About the only thing at the big box stores that is any good is Cabot Timber Oil. You really want a true penetrating oil. Funny you asked this today. I literally just finished staining the floor of my deck about an hour ago. I used Sunbrite Deck Oil. It's a commercial product sold at pressure washing shops. Ready Seal is also an awesome product. One of these three are the only ones I'd use. In this order.

Ready Seal
Sunbrite
Cabot

All are between 35 and 50 a gallon.

I'm not trying to be a know it all, but for years I ran my own deck staining and restoration business. 

RRP

Personally I used Olympic myself when I built my table 15 years ago. 9 years later I touched it up and still have nearly a half gallon left! With your cedar table is it going to sit out in the weather or be protected? One thing you might want to consider is brushing on a sealer first which will help close the wood cells and make the boards accept the stain uniformly instead of blotches. That is also cheaper so you aren't wasting expensive stain doing that sealing. Then depending on where your table will be and if it will be subject to damaging UVL besides water you might want to consider at least two if not three coats at least on horizontal areas. Your table looks nice so don't cut corners on the cost of the finish, nor the effort you put into it.

YukonRon

Use Sikkens. It is a Dutch brand used by out door and indoor furniture manufacturers everywhere. Their deck stains and sealers last twice as long as anything else available. Look them up on line. Find a distributor, it is expensive but it is worth it. I used it when I lived in Georgia, on my deck, and I had people coming up to my house asking me about the coatings I used.

henapple

@Hoosier_Patriot ...Sikkens is good. Take into account sun, rain, etc. Polyurethane is an option. If you live in an area of extreme climate changes I wouldn't use polyurethane. Cabot is good stuff. I've used on several decks. 

Thompsons is the Royal Oak of sealers. Available and cheap but not very good....sounds good but I'd stay away from it. There's much better for the $.

DoubleEgger

Another vote for Sikkens. It'll survive the harshest climates. 

Hoosier_Patriot

RRP ... The table will be on the deck outside... having spent almost as much on the table as I spent on my egg (cedar is expensive), I probably won't spring for a table cover for at least a year, maybe longer.  I like your idea of sealing first and staining next ... So I'm guessing you'd recommend a clear sealant and then the stain color of my choice.  Looks like you're happy with Olympic ... I will also look into the other brands recommended here.

Thanks everybody! 

ksmyrl

If you choose a penetrating oil semi transparent stain don't seal first. The oil has to penetrate the wood. Otherwise it will just sit on top and not last but a few months. You could condition the wood but its new so no need. With cedar conditioning is rarely needed, but whatever you do Do NOT condition with oxalic acid. It's awesome on pine but will ruin cedar. A good quality penetrating oil will last 2 years out in the sun. Then clean and re apply every two years. The darker the color the more UV protection. But...the darker the color the more difficult it is to apply uniformly. You could choose a light color and apply 2 or 3 coats. A clear coat looks good and protects from dirt and such but has zero UV projection. Hope this helps. 

heartmedic

Thanks for the advise and looking forward to seeing the finished product.

RRP

Listen to @ksmyrl as he makes valid points that I skipped over. One idea I will add though - you said you will probably avoid buying a table cover, but for under $10 you can buy a UVL tarp like at Harbor Freight to protect your table. After all that table is an investment of both your time and material! I have a BGE cover for the Summer, but up here the Illinois winter with the snow, cold and UVL can be brutal! I'm on year 12 with my same under $10 tarp!

ksmyrl

Great point @RRP. My 2 year estimate is uncovered. Covered...the finish can last for years and years. Just an annual cleaning with a brush and water. The reason your cover porch floor lasts years longer than your uncovered deck...UV damage. A table cover is a great investment.

bettysnephew

I used a Sherwin Williams stain on mine and it worked well for me, but there are many members here that have far more knowledge than I regarding these products. Follow their advice.

stevesails

SiKkens.  You can get it from a marine store.  gethe the table the color you want.   Then put a few coats of clear on.   Expensive but worth it.  I use it on the exterior teak on the boat.  

Hoosier_Patriot

Very good point about the value of a cover... if it delays re-staining by 2 years then it's saved me money!  While I was "away" I was researching stains, going on to forums for professional painters and the brand TWP came up and these guys seemed to like it as much or better than some of the brands already mentioned here.  Anybody have any experience with that brand?  If so, opinion?

Hoosier_Patriot

KSMryl:  I like the idea of penetrating oil.  The forums for professional painters seem to like it too.  

newegger169

Stain with anything then go over with 3,4,5 costs spar urethane and do a 220 grit sanding between coats

Hoosier_Patriot

Beautiful

Hoosier_Patriot

ksmyrl said:

About the only thing at the big box stores that is any good is Cabot Timber Oil. You really want a true penetrating oil. Funny you asked this today. I literally just finished staining the floor of my deck about an hour ago. I used Sunbrite Deck Oil. It's a commercial product sold at pressure washing shops. Ready Seal is also an awesome product. One of these three are the only ones I'd use. In this order.

Ready Seal
Sunbrite
Cabot

All are between 35 and 50 a gallon.

I'm not trying to be a know it all, but for years I ran my own deck staining and restoration business. 

I researched Ready Seal and didn't bother looking at the other two.  What sold me was that it is "Goof Proof" ... I'm not a skilled woodworker and I need something that is as "forgiving" as Ready Seal says they are...  I also like the idea of only having to clean it and then add another coat in 2-3 years, not stripping and doing it all over again ... I built the table to support my Egg habit not start a wood resurfacing habit ;-) ... of course if I listen to all of you about getting some sort of tarp to protect it then it might be more like 4-5 years before I have to do anything with it ...

However, KSMyrl, you are wrong about big box stores, at least here in the Hoosier state ... I can get Ready Seal at Home Despot er, um Depot I mean ... It is "special order" but I can get it free shipping to my local store... and it was only $36 with tax for a gallon ... not too bad.

Again, thanks to all, I love the Egg Head Forum, you guys are the best... God Bless & enjoy the rest of your spring!

Hoosier_Patriot

poster

look up twp 100, its listed as a preservative. Limited colours though and not available in some states due to VOC laws

jak7028

1) Use color in the sealer, that is what keeps the table from graying overtime.  Clear sealers protect from moisture, but not color retention.

2) Use a long alkyd sealer, slower drying and better penetrating.  Probably going to run $50/gallon for good stain.  DO NOT build it up though, it will wear off quicker.  Wipe it on, then wipe off the extra.  Thicker stain or extra coats is a bad thing depending on the product.  Some water-based are more topical stains and can handle a film, not penetrating oils though.

3) DO NOT clear coat over a sealer.  The spar urethanes or marine varnishes are great over a regular stain if you want shine to it.  They can peel over a sealer because they need to penetrate into the wood a little.  If you want it to look like indoor furniture and it is not going to be exposed to the elements all the time.  Look at doing an interior stain, then spar urethane or marine varnish over the top.  If you want a flatter look that will look nicer longer, use the exterior deck sealers.

4) DO NOT seal before you stain.  Some people use wood conditioners or blend of water and alcohol to even the grain out to make the stain take more even.  Once you decide on stain, put a sample on a scrap piece to make sure you like it.  All wood stains differently.

5) There are several brands that make good products - cabot, sikkens, messmers, twp, penofin, etc.... They each have different lines, and everyone will have their own opinion on which one is better.  Just make sure you get the right one.

Oh, and Thompson's sucks

Hoosier_Patriot

Thanks Jak for your words of wisdom
 and (Poster) the TWP 100 is not available in the Hoosier state because of VOC

jak7028

no problem, noticed I was a little late after I posted.  Most of the advice applies to the stain you purchased anyway though.  

Also, for restaining down the road.  Good test is to splash water on the table.  If it repels the water, it will most likely repel the stain because sealer is still present.  Which means wait longer to restain it or remove what is there, then restain.  

DaveRichardson

Can you road trip out of state and get the TWP within a short drive????  It'd be worth it!

Begger

First, if ANYTHING is 'not available in your state due to VOC laws', California will be first on the list.
When I was taking WoodShop at the local JC, we had several 'special' cans of finish which were going to be either difficult or impossible to replace due to screwy California rules.  

Second,  Just keep OIL with OIL and Water with Water.  I understand that mixing oil and water finishes is a NO-NO.

And as kind of an aside, IIRC, it was Thompsons Water Seal that pretty much invented that market.   If they have changed the 'formula' to cheapen it to a price point or simply increase profit, doom on them.

ksmyrl

Hoosier_Patriot said:

ksmyrl said:

About the only thing at the big box stores that is any good is Cabot Timber Oil. You really want a true penetrating oil. Funny you asked this today. I literally just finished staining the floor of my deck about an hour ago. I used Sunbrite Deck Oil. It's a commercial product sold at pressure washing shops. Ready Seal is also an awesome product. One of these three are the only ones I'd use. In this order.

Ready Seal
Sunbrite
Cabot

All are between 35 and 50 a gallon.

I'm not trying to be a know it all, but for years I ran my own deck staining and restoration business. 

I researched Ready Seal and didn't bother looking at the other two.  What sold me was that it is "Goof Proof" ... I'm not a skilled woodworker and I need something that is as "forgiving" as Ready Seal says they are...  I also like the idea of only having to clean it and then add another coat in 2-3 years, not stripping and doing it all over again ... I built the table to support my Egg habit not start a wood resurfacing habit ;-) ... of course if I listen to all of you about getting some sort of tarp to protect it then it might be more like 4-5 years before I have to do anything with it ...

However, KSMyrl, you are wrong about big box stores, at least here in the Hoosier state ... I can get Ready Seal at Home Despot er, um Depot I mean ... It is "special order" but I can get it free shipping to my local store... and it was only $36 with tax for a gallon ... not too bad.

Again, thanks to all, I love the Egg Head Forum, you guys are the best... God Bless & enjoy the rest of your spring!

Hoosier_Patriot

You are correct. I discovered last night on ready seals Web site they are now selling in Home Depots. I still buy from the commercial guy I bought from when I was in the biz So I was not aware of that. You can't go wrong w ready seal. Of the hundreds of guys I know in the professional wood restoration business 90 % of them use ready seal. It's the best in my opinion. 

Bottom line, use a penetrating oil. Clean and re apply annually or every 2 years. And you'll be fine. I reapply annually. All it takes is a quick wash with mild soap and water. Dry. Then reapply. Wood will last for decades if you do this. Our boat dock is 25 years old. Not a season goes by when someone doesn't say " you replaced your dock". No...just regular maintenance with a quality product. Good luck.