OT Hot water heater question

grege345

I was wondering if anyone here has good things to say about tankless water heaters. I only know of one person that has one and its about 10 yrs old and I remember it taking a while to heat the water. Can't remember if it was gas or electric. Are there real savings for this type of hot water heater? My current hot water heater is about 8 years old and if mi going to make a switch I figure I should do it before my current hot water takes a crap. Thanks

BYS1981

Usually it doesn't take a long time to heat the water, but the run of the pipe gives that illusion.

 I do not deal with electric water heaters,  natural gas only,  nor do I own a tankless.  You would get better percentage costs from a dealer, but some things to keep in mind:

You may have to relocate the water heater. 

Might have to run a new gas line - 35k BTU vs 200k BTU rating demand is signicantly higher, it would need no 1/2 inch fittings, long enough run,  etc - which is why relocating is an option.

If you relocate you would have to relocate your water lines too. 

Personally, I would probably stay traditional water heater.

Chubbs

I have a Rinnai in my rental property. It is okay. There is a little delay in heating the water. There is a keypad mounted to the bathroom wall where you can set your desired water temp and it will not get an hotter. There is also a sensor that lights up to tell you if hot water is being used anywhere else in house. I have not been overly impressed but nothing negative really either. 

shucker

I have a Rinnai that Ive had for about 6 years now.  Does it save me money on my water heating bills???  I have no clue!!!  BUT I love the fact that there's always hot water, it never runs out.  I also love the fact that its not heating water when there's noone home or while we're sleeping.  I've never had any trouble with it and I dont have to worry about it flooding my house like a traditional water heater.  

I dont think it takes long to heat the water.  I will say the biggest complaint my wife has is that when she's rinsing dishes, the constant turning on/off of the hot water seems to delay the hot water.  But turning it on for hand washing or a shower takes no longer to heat up than a traditional water heater.  

If mine bit the dust today, I'd replace it with another tankless unit. 

stlcharcoal

I don't know about the gas ones, but the electric tankless ones use a TON of electricity fast.  You may need to upgrade your panel or get a sub panel installed since they need TWO double 30-40amp breakers.

You'll also need to change your habits and fixtures.  If you have "mixing" valves on your sinks, you may want to change them.  If you're in the habit of flipping that handle up, for warm water, that fires up the heater on full blast just like if you were filling the tub with hot water.  Any flow turns on the heater.  So, if you can use the straight cold water, don't flip the hot handle.

The other thing that you may miss out on it with a traditional water heater, you always have 50+ gallons of water on hand.  If something happens to the main line, or your well pump, it's nice to have a small source for a while.

Take a look at the heat pump water heaters too.

I have a geothermal HVAC with a desuperheater running to a 50 gal non-powered (bypass) water heater tank.  Then my primary 80-gal heater draws that preheated water.  So, sometimes I will have almost 130 gallons of hot water, but still takes almost 90 seconds for the water to warm up in a certain bathroom since the run is so long.....all the pipes are insulated too.

Double Bogey

I have a Rinnai propane unit in my cabin going on three years.  No problems at all. Hard to say anything about time to get hot water at the tap since the plumbing is PEX and goes through a central manifold system.  I find it convenient to just push a button and turn the system off when we leave and only do the reverse when we visit.  At home I have a Horitz tankless that is natural gas. Of the two I like the Rinnai better.

Thumper169

They are Awesome and the only way to go IMO but it HAS to be GAS!!!!  "Or maybe propane"  The electric units are power hogs and can't keep up and not worth a flip...  The added extra upfront expense will be saved in energy savings so it's a no brainer..   We have one in the main house, small under sink units in the shops and one is about to go under the sink in the new outdoor kitchen...  If you have NG then you won't regret the purchase one bit.  The beautiful thing is you never run out of hot water

fishlessman

Double Bogey said:

I have a Rinnai propane unit in my cabin going on three years.  No problems at all. Hard to say anything about time to get hot water at the tap since the plumbing is PEX and goes through a central manifold system.  I find it convenient to just push a button and turn the system off when we leave and only do the reverse when we visit.  At home I have a Horitz tankless that is natural gas. Of the two I like the Rinnai better.

never thought to put one in but that might be an easy system to drain midweek at camp

4Runner

Gas Rinnai tankless here.  We have had it for about 5 years now.  No complaints and it clearly saves money for us.  We disposed of 2 40 gal tanked models for the one Rinnai unit.  Loose pressure a bit when running 2 hot water sources at once but still manageable.   

TheShaytoon

Life Changer.  Our new house has two, we will never ever have a tank again.

Some mornings after a good night of drinking, you can just sit there....and take a freaking LONG shower.  And also shower sexy time does not get interrupted when the water runs out.

Little Steven

Tankless is the best way to go if there is no one home during the day.

Canugghead

Put in a gas Paloma almost nine years ago, still going strong.
Installed a Chili-pepper pump at the furthest faucet, with X10 remote control, running the pump momentarily enssures almost 'instant' hot water even at distant faucets.  Two lessons learned:
1) pipes undersized, so the farther faucet loses pressure if two are in use.
2) unlimited hot water means "kids" stay in shower forever.

Canugghead

Little Steven said:

Tankless is the best way to go if there is no one home during the day.

true, when there's constant demand for hot water, the 'idle heat loss' is reduced.

caliking

TheShaytoon said:

Life Changer.  Our new house has two, we will never ever have a tank again.

Some mornings after a good night of drinking, you can just sit there....and take a freaking LONG shower.  And also shower sexy time does not get interrupted when the water runs out.

Sold. I will get one installed pronto. Make that 2.

grege345

Thanks for the feedback. Electric is out. I have the room in the panel but the thought of 3 40amp double pole breakers is not gonna happen. @30,000 watts draw makes it a no go. I do have propane. If I had natural gas it would be a no brainier. So now I have to just figure how much propane this thing is gonna pull. The electric geothermal hybrid heat pump version might be a possibility. 300$ rebate from the electric company plus the yearly run cost is 200$ vs the standard 600$ for traditional water heater. 

DoubleEgger

I looked into one years ago at a previous residence. I had a well and the plumber told me that his customers with wells had issues with consistent water temp because the water flowed through the heating tubes at different rates depending on the pressure (min max pressure on your pressure switch). I don't know if that's resolved with the newer models but it seemed logical to me at the time. 

hondabbq

We have no gas at my house. So its not an option.
We installed a Rheem Marathon series tank.
Living out in the country with no municipal water I had to change our anode 2 times a year. At $25 each change that added up over the last 8 years.
The Rheem tank is made of plastic. No need for more anodes. It will lose only 5 degrees of temp with no power over a 24 hour period. so its pretty efficient. They are not cheap by no means but worth it in my case and maybe yours.

grege345

Thanks @hondabbq the more I look into it I think the hybrid rheem may be for me. Propane just isn't cheap enough to justify the cost. Kicker is in my area we have 30" gas pipelines all over our town with no supply lines. Go figure. 

Eggcelsior

TheShaytoon said:

Life Changer.  Our new house has two, we will never ever have a tank again.

Some mornings after a good night of drinking, you can just sit there....and take a freaking LONG shower.  And also shower sexy time does not get interrupted when the water runs out.

This is the best advertisement for them I've seen. You should get paid.

johnkitchens

TheShaytoon said:

Some mornings after a good night of drinking, you can just sit there....and take a freaking LONG shower.  And also shower sexy time does not get interrupted when the water runs out.

You must be a rock star. 

gerhardk

We have a oil fired water heater, I think it is impossible to run out of hot water with it.  One day my wife left the hot water running and went to work, the water was still running hot 9 hours later.

Gerhard

saluki2007

We are in the process of building a new home and we are going with a tank less option and using PEX for the lines.  Still trying to figure out if we want gas or electric.  We are also contemplating tying it into the radiant heat system instead of going with a full blown boiler system.

Chubbs

johnkitchens said:

TheShaytoon said:

Some mornings after a good night of drinking, you can just sit there....and take a freaking LONG shower.  And also shower sexy time does not get interrupted when the water runs out.

You must be a rock star. 

I thought I was cool for drinking beer in the shower. 

hondabbq

grege345 said:

Thanks @hondabbq the more I look into it I think the hybrid rheem may be for me. Propane just isn't cheap enough to justify the cost. Kicker is in my area we have 30" gas pipelines all over our town with no supply lines. Go figure. 

I read a lot of reviews on the Marathon series tanks.
The efficiency ratings I was reading were 94-95%. Partly due to the 2.5" insulation around the whole thing. It only comes in a 50 or 75 gallon in Canada. We had a 60 gallon standard metal one and deiced to go up to the 75 gallon tank. With the ratings we figured it would be worth the difference. Also the cost to go to the 75 from the 50 was only $98 more.
Once I got it hooked up and filled the tank, it only took a couple of hours to get up to temp. Having never swapped out a tank before and with the volume of water that's in thee I was impressed with the speed it heated up.

Skiddymarker

Just put in a new gas fired tank, the sales guy talked me out of a tankless. This may have a lot to do with the "country" pricing of tankless units here in the GWN. Install for a tankless meant a new vent ($200), and the final price was only about $2200. A 40USG tank was about $900. We have never run out with the 40USG tank. Unlike @TheShaytoon, SWMBO and I are old fashioned, the bed is for sexy time (I'd probably fall down and break a hip anyway and at my age it takes a long time to heal) and we don't take showers as if it was a hot tub. 
My summer gas bills (hot water only) are in the $30 range of which $20 is a fixed delivery charge meaning maybe $10 is actual gas usage. Even if a tankless saved me 50% of gas use, at $5 a month it would take more than my lifetime to pay back. Do the math. YMMV. 

SmyrnaGA

If you're even considering a circulation system, I would stay far, far away from electric hot water heaters.

My 8 yr old house came with 2 Rinnai (gas - R85) feeding a circulation system.  The circulation system has a 10 gallon electric water heater (Rheem 81VP10S) and a on/off 100 watt circulation pump.  When everything is working, I have instant & unlimited hot water anywhere in the house, but...

In the winter, my electric bill was around $400, gas bill around $200.  Summer time, electric bill is somewhere between $800 to 900 (summer surcharge + A/C), gas bill around $50.

Two months ago, the electric water heater stopped working and we lost hot water.  After figuring out it was the electric heater, I turned off the circulation pump and closed the valve next to the output from the electric heater.  This forced the hot water from the Rinnai up the return line to the faucets.  The electric bill last month was $194 and gas $183.  If the kWH savings is the same in the summer, my summer electric bill should be between $400-500.

I now have to wait a minute or two for hot water, but, the savings from my electric bill could EASILY pay for another egg by Christmas!

DMW

Chubbs said:

I thought I was cool for drinking beer in the shower. 

I haven't tried that yet...

TheShaytoon

Eggcelsior said:

TheShaytoon said:

Life Changer.  Our new house has two, we will never ever have a tank again.

Some mornings after a good night of drinking, you can just sit there....and take a freaking LONG shower.  And also shower sexy time does not get interrupted when the water runs out.

This is the best advertisement for them I've seen. You should get paid.

I own a marketing firm...no joke.  I get paid to come up with this crap. Thanks!

Roadpuke0

Being a plumber for over twenty years and dealing with electric and gas units a multitude of times my first question to you would be where do you live? These units are all based off of temperature rise. They all work if sized correctly to your climate and size of home and usage points. I would say the number one problem we incounter is the average home owner trying to install the units and not sizing the gas supply correctly for the demand of the unit when it's running and possible other items at the same time. I could keep on rambling on with much more but do not want to bore you. The key is find a good installer. I would recommend a unit by noritz , a.o. Smith or Rihanni. The first two I know for sure have listing for your area of certified installers that may be helpful at there web sites. There sites will give a little more info that will be helpful. They save money long term. Good luck in your quest.. If you pay travel time from northern Illinois and cook on the egg , I might make the trip:-)

theyolksonyou

johnkitchens said:

TheShaytoon said:

Some mornings after a good night of drinking, you can just sit there....and take a freaking LONG shower.  And also shower sexy time does not get interrupted when the water runs out.

You must be a rock star. 

Rock is not the kind of star I was thinking about....

danv23

I have a 50 gallon gas with insulated pipes throughout the house and a recirculating pump (built with the house at construction). The pump is programmable, but I leave it on all the time. I've talked to plumbers who recommended that because it, according to them, saves wear and tear on the heater because unused heated water returns to the tank which reduces the number of times it fires up. I love it because when you hit a spigot, it's hot in about 3 seconds.