Semi definitive answer on curing.

Little Steven

This is from a guy I know that has experience with curing. He is pretty analytical and isn't afraid to call ****. Here you go.

 

Little Steven

( -"what does 'Cured' mean?"   well, "cured" simply means preserved with salt and/or pink salts (nitrite).  either or both.

the moment that there's enough salt OR nitrite OR both to preserve the meat, it's considered 'cured'.

-"Can you make bacon without nitrite"?  weeeeeelllll.  yes and no.  mostly 'no'.  you can call it what you want, but it isn't 'bacon' by most standards.

-You can make a thing you refer to as 'bacon' without nitrite, but it isn't 'bacon' as we know it.   call it what you want. but it's basically salt-cured pork, like salt-pork, lardo, pancetta, prosciutto, etc. (and although you can use nitrite with some of these, traditionally you wouldn't).

-"Is nitrite used in bacon to protect against botulism?".  nope.  nitrite doesn't make solid muscle meats any safer with regard to botulism.  remember, a prosciutto is salt cured only, with no nitrite, and hangs for two years at room temp.  still safe, and no, there's no magic environmentally controlled room required either. so, there's absolutely no issue cold smoking versus hot smoking with or without nitrite.  sausages? different thing.  even with the salt, sausage is still ground meat, fat, bacteria and (potentially) botulism spores, protected from oxygen by being packed into casings and intermixed.  but muscle (ham, bacon, loin) has no botulism spores INSIDE the meat. the word' botulism' comes from the Latin word meaning sausage.  the salt is protecting you here, with regard to bacon.  even then, you refrigerate it anyway.  but that's beside the point.

-I always ask why the desire for no nitrites.  if it is for health reasons, that's admirable, but illogical.  for one thing, there's far more nitrite in a stick of celery than that pound of bacon.  and if you had a diet high in bacon, it'd be that fat and (possibly) the salt that kills you, not the nitrite.  there's no reason to be eating bacon in the first place if you have health concerns.    the salt is in much higher concentration than the nitrite.  but notice no one ever asks for a recipe for bacon without salt?  people have conflated the warning against eating lots of cured meats with the typical fear of the unknown , in this case 'chemicals!'. 

-"don't eat a diet high in cured meats if you want to stay healthy".  THAT is true.  but it ain't the nitrites.  it's the salt and fat.  let's not pick and choose.

-still worried about nitrite? ok.  then stop swallowing your spit.  more than 90% of the nitrites in your diet, including those who eat bacon, is produced by your body, because it NEEDS it.  including your own spit.

-"But I buy nitrate free bacon at Whole Foods".  No, no you don't.  You buy "no nitrite added" bacon, but it still has nitrite in it.  "wha-wha-whaaaat?!?!!?", you say?  yep, if someone prefers the "no nitrite added" bacon they get at an organic food store because they think it is healthier, they need to realize they have nothing less than the SAME salt and nitrite cured type of 'unhealthy' bacon everyone is buying from Oscar Meyer for four bucks less.  that healthfood/organic stuff typically says "no artificial nitrite added".  but they still cure it with nitrite, in the same concentration too. they just happen to use 'celerey powder' for a 'natural' source of nitrite.  saying 'natural' nitrite is better somehow than 'man made' nitrite is like saying 'natural' oxygen is better than 'man made' oxygen.  it's not, it's simply playing to ignorance and a flase sense of what is healthy.   i don't mean 'ignorant' as-in "people are stupid", i'm simply saying they are ignorant (i.e. "not aware") of what nitrite does, where it comes from, why it's there, and whether or not is is truly a danger. truth is, celery is so high in nitrite, that they powder it and use it in their cure so they can say "no artificial nitrites'.  but don't for a second think you are getting nitrite-free, or eating magically healthier bacon.

nitrite is required in our diet.  it is in very high concentrations in many vegetables (beets, celery, spinach, etc.).

if a person is TRULY worried about nitrite intake, they should push aside that spinach salad, stop eating celery as a between meal lo-cal snack, and eschew beets.  and god forbid there's arugula in your salad.  you get more nitrite from an arugula salad than from eating five hot dogs.

actually.  i am mistaken. it's not five hotdogs.  it's FIVE HUNDRED.  you need to eat FIVE HUNDRED hot dogs to get as much nitrite as an arugula salad.

so why the hell do we want to bother with adding nitrite to bacon if it isn't for botulism's sakes (it's not)?  well, it CHANGES the meat.  and it does it in a way that salt can't.  it adds a piquancy that salt lacks, it firms the meat, it gives it a familiar pleasing red color that doesn't do anything for flavor, but just keeps it from looking grey, which some associate with spoilage or 'old' meat.  the red preserves a certain fresher look, basically.

but mainly it's that it firms the meat and adds the 'cured' flavor that most people like and associate with things like ham, bacon, etc.

let's face it, a salt-brined pork loin is not at all like back bacon (canadian bacon), right? yet it's the came cut of meat. 

the only difference?  nitrite.

-difference between cold and hot smoke?  first, nitrite doesn't do jack-diddly for either. it's all about the flavor and firmness and color. but the smoke...?

Hot Smoke:  cooks the bacon.  it's easier to do, faster, and can deposit a lot of smoke.  it firms the meat (by cooking and a bit more moisture loss). that cooking and moisture loss means a firmer bacon, and when cooked in slices it will not shrink, will tend to be drier (but not in a bad way, just not sizzling/popping/spitting)

Cold Smoke: does not cook the bacon.  nitrite is not protecting against botulism hear either.  so why do it?  well, I hot smoke because it's easier.  so i cold smoke when i have a lot to do, a ham maybe at the same time, and because the smoke can be subtler.  my set-up for cold smoking (thru a aluminum dryer hose) usually involves cold weather, and by the time the smoke gets to my chamber, its condensed a bit and loss some harsher aspects.  do i taste a HUGE difference? not really.  but i do it because that means the smoked bacon is now still uncooked (though not 'raw', because it is still cured of course).  when i cook it in the pan, it will be the first time it gets cooked, and will retain a little more moisture.

keep in mind that this is DRY curing.  dry curing ALWAYS removes water from the meat.  country hams are drier, prosciutto is drier, etc.  

but supermarket bacon (and a city ham), are WET cured.  in fact, the supermarket bacon is actually processed raw, sliced and then needle injected (hundreds of needles) with brine,  then finally packaged.  it cures very quickly, on the way to the store.  that's why 'city' hams are called city hams.  they tossed them in a cask of brine, and they cured on the train on the way to the city. 

since we are very much used to supermarket bacon being limp and 'raw' feeling (floppy, obviously not cooked), we are loking for the same thing when we make bacon.  but dry cured hot smoked bacon is not this at all.  cold smoking can remove the 'cooking' aspect though, and so you end up with a similar looking product (un-cooked) to supermarket bacon.  but it will still be drier because it has had water removed (by dry curing, salt and sugar remove water), rather than had water ADDED, as commercial bacon has. )

jimreed777

Thanks for posting this - nice read. Makes me want to give curing and smoking my own bacon a shot.

NDG

Good read - similar to Ruhlman's take about the "no nitrites added" hoax but more detail . . . thanks.

http://ruhlman.com/2011/05/the-no-nitrites-added-hoax/

fishlessman

theres a shot part way down on two cooked cornbeefs, left is salt only, the way i get it, and the right with the cure. seems normal for me to have the brown corned beef, but that was the color of the bacon i had without cure, seemed so wrong, the bacon needs a little curing agent

SGH

Well written and most informative. Thanks for sharing.

hondabbq

Thanks

Austin Egghead

Very interesting post and link.  Will you post this on the other forum.

Cookinbob

Good information here.  I am pretty new to curing, so appreciate all I can read.  Thanks for posting it.

NDG

So the nitrate free stuff is a hoax - but the other side of the cure topic is Carcinogens from high heat cooking the cured meat.  It is what it is, but I posted this awhile back so here it is again.  My lil sister is a super smart food science major, had the highest GPA at ohio state within her major for 4 years in a row, now travels the world working at vineyards with Wine.  She just finished up with Opus One last harvest and she is now in Australia for their harvest - I love bragging about her!  I asked her about this topic as I was making bacon, and this is what she had to say . . . 

 

Here is the deal with nitrites. Very common in veggies and other food products. However it isn't the nitrite itself that is dangerous it is the combo with proteins at high heat. In cured meats there is a high risk of a food borne illness from a toxin producing bacteria called Clostridium botulinum. Really nasty little bacteria that can make this toxin which one little drop has enough power to kill thousands (and ironically is the same toxin used for botox at a very very very dilute level because it paralyzes your muscles aka no wrinks). So sodium nitrite happens to be an AWESOME antimicrobial agent against this guy. It also has a nice bonus effect that it binds with hemoglobin causing a more stable compound which keeps meat looking red (and hotdogs pink). Soooo they added this stuff to meats/cured stuff like crazy back in the day. Well in the 1970s research found that when sodium nitrite is in contact with amines (small building blocks of proteins, which protein=meat) at really high temperatures they can combine and form nitrosamines, a carcinogen. There has been a lot of research done on this and they have found it to cause liver and lung cancer in animals. So in the late 1970's the FDA thought about banning the use of sodium nitrite however it is so successful at inhibiting Clostridium botulinum growth that they decided that the risk of botulinum outweighed the risk of carcinogen formation and have since set restrictions on the amount of sodium nitrite which can be added to cured meats (120 ppm). 

That being said the original research done was conducted in the 1970's and has since been questions. But there is no doubt that nitrosamines  are carcinogens and they can be found in cured meats (especially bacon since it is fried at such a high temp ~340F). Maybe the egg doesn't cook at that high of temperatures and does more of a low and slow cook?  Also there is studies that buffering your meats by adding ascorbic acid (vitamin C) helps inhibit the formation of nitrosamine. And either way it seems like just about everything causes cancer these days so I would go with the everything in moderation! Enjoy some egg bacon!

Little Steven

Austin Egghead said:

Very interesting post and link.  Will you post this on the other forum.

Joan,

The guy that wrote it said he didn't mind if I posted here. I'll ask him if it is OK to do that.

Little Steven

Austin Egghead said:

Very interesting post and link.  Will you post this on the other forum.

Joan,

Go ahead and copy and post it there if you want.

Carolina Q

Steven, this friend wouldn't happen to live just north of Boston, would he? Interesting post, but then, his usually are. Or am I wrong?

Cookinbob

@NDG  your last sentence says it all.  Everything causes cancer (or heart attack, or high blood pressure or take your pick) so enjoy some Egg Bacon.

NDG

Yea I am glad she finished with that line - so true!

Little Steven

Carolina Q said:

Steven, this friend wouldn't happen to live just north of Boston, would he? Interesting post, but then, his usually are. Or am I wrong?

Friend? Did I use that word?

NDG

Little Steven - sorry if I made a mess of your post.  I thought my sisters topic had a different focus (cooking of cured meats) but close enough to be relevant so I pasted it here.  Now I see they take different stands. My sister could be referencing older studies said Nitrites are used to prevent Botulism . . . because your source clearly said . .  "Is nitrite used in bacon to protect against botulism?".  nope. 

Carolina Q

My mistake.

Little Steven

NDG,

It's not my information. It's from a guy that knows a fair bit about the subject. I think it's more or less accurate from what I understand. It's a forum. People can differ No worries..

cazzy

LS, very very good read.  This should be a stickey.

Little Steven

I didn't know we had them on this forum.

cazzy

Little Steven said:

I didn't know we had them on this forum.

We used to.  It's kinda sucked ever since their departure.

Little Steven

I agree.

AlbertaEgger

Thanks for the post LS, good read, and perfect timing for me this week.

Little Steven

AlbertaEgger said:

Thanks for the post LS, good read, and perfect timing for me this week.

I just copied from an e-mail. One thing that wasn't said is the nitrite is used against botulism in sausages.

Sundown

Just remember you cute little midget Canuk, he knows where you live and what AA meeting you go attend.

FlaPoolman

I miss BGD

Little Steven

Thaw out yet little fella?

Little Steven

Sundown said:

Just remember you cute little midget Canuk, he knows where you live and what AA meeting you go attend.

Like I'm scared of Him? He's a luvva not a fittah

FlaPoolman

You missed a great time and some great food but I guess your getting use to that.

Little Steven

What U talkin' bout son. I'm going to Texas next week

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vyFSdj1J5Vw#t=1 )
So I should be right in my element on both fronts