Very OT - Any Woodworkers Here?

Fred19Flintstone

I'm thinking of buying a table saw off CL.  Any advice?

 http://flint.craigslist.org/tls/4234738944.html

 

RRP

Fred19Flintstone said:

I'm thinking of buying a table saw off CL.  Any advice?

 http://flint.craigslist.org/tls/4234738944.html

 

I'm a wood butcher myself...I'd suggest you call and ask for the model and age and a little history of its use whether beat to hell in a business use or just as a hobbyist. Also hp of the motor and ask about vibration and rust issues as well. Then comparison shop on the net. If possible you ought to see it in person and listen to how it runs and then make a test cut or two. BTW these are not cabinet grade saws but a good home board buzzer saw for light duty use.

KennyLee

Looks like a little older model, but pretty good buy if everything is in working order.  About 1/3 of the out the door price for the current model brand-new.  And my experience with Ridgid power tools has been really good.

Botch

That is a really good price, and Ridgid hasn't been on the market all that long so it wouldn't be that old (although, older tools are, in a lot of cases, preferable!).  

Here's one simple test.  Bring along a length of wood dowel, raise the blade all the way up, and then using the miter gauge, cut the end off it, and then slowly run the cut end past the rear of the blade; you should hear the wood lightly touch the teeth.  Now, put the miter gauge in the other miter slot (opposite side of the blade) and do the same thing.  The sound the wood and blade make should sound when they touch at the back should be essentially the same.  If it makes a much louder sound, or doesn't touch at all, then the motor mount isn't square with the table.  This can be corrected (I've done it to my Delta) but its not much fun.  All other tuning (squaring the fence to the blade, the blade to the table vertically, etc) are easy to do.

If you have a good-quality straightedge, 36" long or so, you should also bring that, lay it upright across the table in various directions, and shine a light at the bottom edge, towards you; that'll show you if the table is warped at all, something you won't be able to fix (the pressed steel wings that saw has may be too high or crooked, but that too is something you can fix; its the central, cast-iron portion that you want to be flat).  

I'm a bit anal wrt tools; if you're just wanting this saw for fencing etc you probably don't need to go to these lengths.  And that is a good price!  

Alphonse

Good price if all is in working order. It's a saw that you would not find in really serious woodworker's shop. Flipside, buy it, use it until you want a serious cabinet maker's saw and then you can sell it to get most of your money back. Be prepared to spend some bucks for a decent blade. A bad blade will make a $3000 saw mediocre. Buy an excellent blade and you can always move it to another saw if the time comes.

Doc_Eggerton

Depending on what tools and experience your have, and what you want to use it for, you might prefer to look for a radial arm saw.

gmac

Looks good but you'll need to take some fine sandpaper or steel wool to the cast table.  Get that rust off and then give it a real nice coating of paste wax.  

I have a Delta Contractors saw that looks a bit similar although maybe a bit heavier and it's served me well for 15 years.  Agree that you need to make sure it's nice and flat and make sure the fence is in good shape but for that price you won't go too far wrong.

Fred19Flintstone

I have a Shopsmith that I keep in the garage (which means it gets limited use).  I'm making a move to claim the basement for my workshop and I want to augment the set-up with a table saw.  IMO, the Shopsmith is not very good as a table saw.

Fred19Flintstone

Doc_Eggerton said:

Depending on what tools and experience your have, and what you want to use it for, you might prefer to look for a radial arm saw.

I am a hobbyist. I measure once, cut twice and hope the glue will hold! It's funny you mentioned a radial arm saw because I grabbed my Dad's OLD one last week. It needs to be reconditioned before I fire it up. I still want a table saw though.

Fred19Flintstone

@Botch , @Alphonse & @gmac - Good suggestions.  I'm going to look at it on Thursday.

Botch

Fred19Flintstone said:

IMO, the Shopsmith is not very good as a table saw.

 

That's not just opinion.  The mall demonstration of the Shopsmith in TS mode convinced me to go with separate tools (I do have a combo jointer/planer, however…)

Hungry Joe

Those were not bad saws when they were new and still could be a good deal but that one does not look like it was taken care of to well. It would be hard to test it with all that rust.

I would pass unless I was looking for a project but you might want to take a look and make an offer if everything looks sound. If there is anything more then surface rust on the top, like the motor mounts and other parts of the saw I would pass. Other wise a little non silicon wax and steel wool can polish that top up to look like like new. I would never use sandpaper on a table saw top.

I am guessing for a little more then double that you can buy a new or nearly new Ridgid saw if you find a good sale or discount.

henapple

I've got a brother in Arkansas that has a saw that can out saw any saw you ever saw. If you saw a saw that can out saw my brother's saw in Arkansas, you saw more than I saw in Arkansas.

Eggcelsior

Henapple is a woodchuck.

Doc_Eggerton

Fred19Flintstone said:

Depending on what tools and experience your have, and what you want to use it for, you might prefer to look for a radial arm saw.

I am a hobbyist. I measure once, cut twice and hope the glue will hold! It's funny you mentioned a radial arm saw because I grabbed my Dad's OLD one last week. It needs to be reconditioned before I fire it up. I still want a table saw though.

That is funny, because I quote all the time, measure twice cut once.  The corollary is, you can make it shorter but you can't make it longer. That having been said I have more than once produced to left sides on a new piece of furniture, and kicked myself for it.  When I was building commercial my rule was the customer never sees the piece until it is done.  My most intricate piece was a stand to hold a hundred gallon fish tank, all by jointery.  Boy did I think every cut over a few times before I made it with that one.

RRP

Fred19Flintstone said:

Depending on what tools and experience your have, and what you want to use it for, you might prefer to look for a radial arm saw.

I am a hobbyist. I measure once, cut twice and hope the glue will hold! It's funny you mentioned a radial arm saw because I grabbed my Dad's OLD one last week. It needs to be reconditioned before I fire it up. I still want a table saw though.

You didn't mention the brand of your Fathers old radial arm saw, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that it probably is Craftsman from Sears as they were hugely popular and they sold a gazillion of them to the emerging homecraftsman. Then they got hit with a bad rep of being dangerous simply because idiots tried to use them. While I am blessed to have acquired many fine power saws over the years my 38 year old Craftsman radial arm saw still has a respectful spot in my workshop! The simple safety key to remember is it cuts with an agressive attitude meaning it climbs and comes at you as it cuts.

Fred19Flintstone

Thinking things through like that when you're a professional is critical.  That 100 gallon tank stand must have carried at least 1,000 pounds.  Joint failure would not be pretty. 

Doc_Eggerton

Wish I had photos of that job.  Load bearing was six 4x4 cedar posts, joint cut to fit together with top and bottom 4x4  rails all around.  After the fact I added a cross piece in the center to support the tank.  The whole piece was fit together like a puzzle, then some strategic screws added for reinforcement.  The pic does not show the jointery.  I would have liked to leave it skeletal, but she wanted it enclosed with shelves.

willrev

I have a large Delta Unisaw 220 volt. I used to run a cheap ryobi and got tired of burning hardwood and tearing up blades. Just not enough horsepower. I love the unisaw. I can cut through 4x8 sheets of cabinet grade ply by myself with an outfeed table. Would never go back, but it was a $2200 investment. Get as much horsepower as you can afford. Delta has some nice contractor saws also. I build cabinets. Grizzly is not bad stuff. Before you buy used, look at Grizzly too.

cortguitarman

I have a Ridgid saw and love it. You need to ask if the top is pitted. If so, I wouldn't. If it is surface rust, it can be cleaned up with some elbow grease. I'm not a fan of the stamped steel wings but it isn't a game changer. For a good vibration test, do the nickel test. Take a nickel, stand it on edge and turn on the saw. Turn off the saw and let it come to a complete stop. The nickel should stay standing.

If you are able to swing the price difference you can get a brand new ridgid hybrid saw for $529 and that comes with the lifetime warranty. The saw you are looking at is a contractor saw. These were designed for contractors to take to job sites and build custom cabinets and do millwork on site. With this saw you CAN build top quality cabinets and furniture. These saws became less popular when the direct drive saws came out. The reason...the contractor saws are heavy. To the tune of 250 pounds. The new saw is a hybrid saw. It is a combination of the features of a cabinet saw and a contractor saw. Because of the base of the hybrid and the way the motor is mounted, the footprint of the saw is much more compact. You cannot put a contractor saw flush against the wall because of the motor that hangs off of the back. The hybrid saw also has 100x better dust collection. It has a 4" dust port made for a dust collector. Contractor saws only have a shop vac hookup and have an open stand. Otherwise the saws are very comparable.

I love my contractor saw. I'd buy another in a heartbeat. If mine ever dies and the warranty somehow becomes invalid, I'll go with the hybrid saw. The simple reason - a smaller footprint, same cut capacity, and most of all better dust collection. Ridgid is a leader in the value:quality ratio.

Here is what you can build with a contractor saw like the one in craigslist. The last pic is most important...memories.

Fred19Flintstone

RRP said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

Depending on what tools and experience your have, and what you want to use it for, you might prefer to look for a radial arm saw.

I am a hobbyist. I measure once, cut twice and hope the glue will hold! It's funny you mentioned a radial arm saw because I grabbed my Dad's OLD one last week. It needs to be reconditioned before I fire it up. I still want a table saw though.

You didn't mention the brand of your Fathers old radial arm saw, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that it probably is Craftsman from Sears as they were hugely popular and they sold a gazillion of them to the emerging homecraftsman. Then they got hit with a bad rep of being dangerous simply because idiots tried to use them. While I am blessed to have acquired many fine power saws over the years my 38 year old Craftsman radial arm saw still has a respectful spot in my workshop! The simple safety key to remember is it cuts with an agressive attitude meaning it climbs and comes at you as it cuts.

The serial number plate said it was manufactured by Yuba, but the name Saw Smith is on the side covers.  It turns out they were bought out by Shopsmith.  I'm looking forward to using it as soon as I get it together and make sure it works.  I'm waiting for a pool table I donated to get picked up so I have the space.

Charlesmaneri

I think you can buy a equal or better table saw brand new from home depot ,lowes or sears I would check 1st before I bought a used saw

cortguitarman

@willrev I'm jealous. That Unisaw is a beast. I'd love one but I'm a hobbyist. It just doesn't fit the budget or the workshop. @Fred19Flintsone blades make all of the difference. The stock blade that came with my saw has been used once. I own a Freud Premier Fusion 40 tooth combination blade and a 30 tooth Premier Fusion rip blade. They are each $100/blade. These can be resharpened and will last for years. Another quality blade is the Forrest Woodworker II. If I had to choose only 1 blade, it would be the rip blade. It will take care of the hardwoods and plywood. As @willrev says, a Grizzly is good. I still think the best buy is the new ridgid. As you compare saws, don't be scared away by bigger saws having less horsepower than the direct drives. Direct drives have more power because they are connected right to the motor and not belt driven. They don't cut so well? Though.

Dirkdaddy

Fred19Flintstone said:

I have a Shopsmith that I keep in the garage (which means it gets limited use).  I'm making a move to claim the basement for my workshop and I want to augment the set-up with a table saw.  IMO, the Shopsmith is not very good as a table saw.

A buddy of mine has a shopsmith and he makes tons of incredible mission furniture, stuff you would pay big money for. I'm not exactly sure how he does it, he lives states away and when I see him we're having beer and admiring not building but he does this in a shop that is a small room off a small basement. No kids, that says a lot !! So...you can use a shopsmith.

Myself I'm not as skilled but I bought a Grizzley 1023 220v 3hp cabinet saw years ago and never looked back, it doesn't struggle though anything I've throw at it, but its overkill really unless you are serious.

Buddy has the grizzly contractor type saw with the shop fox fence, that is going to be 1000x better than that saw on CL. Has worked great for him, he has built all the cabinets in his kitchen and more. 

That one you posted looked to have stamped steel wings and a small motor. Fence looked OK. 

QDude

I would suggest that you look around some more.  The most important things are a good fence that stays aligned to the miter slots, a good miter gauge, a good blade, a flat top, and an arbor that is long enough to put a dado stack on.  You may be better off spending a few more dollars for a used Delta or Powermatic.  However, if you are only going to do an occasional project, this saw may be alright.

Skiddymarker

Cabinet saw, 220V, long arbour to stack blades, like @QDude says. The fence must be adjustable and stay where you set it. Think about dust collection. Good luck. 

FearlessTheEggNoob

henapple said:

I've got a brother in Arkansas that has a saw that can out saw any saw you ever saw. If you saw a saw that can out saw my brother's saw in Arkansas, you saw more than I saw in Arkansas.

LOL  I don't care who ya are, that's funny right there

Fred19Flintstone

I looked at it this morning and decided to pass. The top was a little rustier than simple surface rust. It also failed @Botch 's dowel test and @cortguitarman 's nickel test. Thanks guys for the great ideas! Proving once again, this forum rocks!!
The search continues...

cortguitarman

I'm surprised that it failed the nickel test. Sounds like the arbor is out of balance. If you are looking for a contractor style saw like that one I'd look at the Grizzly saws for new or I'd search for a Ridgid TS3660 or TS3650. They are the same exact saw. ridgid changed the model number when they changed how it was packaged. The 3660 came in two boxes. The 3650 came in one box. I have this saw and it is great! The 3650/60 is similar to the saw you looked at except the wings are cast iron instead of stamped steel. More cast iron = more weight. More weight = less vibration. These don't hit CL very often because they are wildly popular. The only thing I dislike about my 3650 is the dust collection. It hooks to a shop vac. It works, but if it had an enclosed stand it would be better.