Fire went out during night cook of brisket

Egginole

Woke up to cold egg, brisket 90 degree internal temp... is this salvageable? Or did I just create my first story about "The first brisket I cooked on the egg, really didn't cook." What a kick to the groin.

Scottborasjr

It's salvageable unless you left the lid open for the birds to get at it, light that fire and get going.

Little Steven

The external temp matters more than the internal. You have a minimum of four hours less than 140* surface temp

The Cen-Tex Smoker

you are fine. Done it many times over the years. fire it up and go.

TexanOfTheNorth

Little Steven said:

The external temp matters more than the internal. You have a minimum of four hours less than 140* surface temp

Minimum? Did you mean maximum?

TexanOfTheNorth

Egginole, that is a shot to the pills! Any idea what may have gone wrong?

Egginole

Thanks! Started at 10pm - left it at 12:30 am - dome 225. Of course the one day the kids sleep late and woke me up at 7 was when I found the fire out, dome temp not registered and internal temp at 90. Yes, 7am is late for our kids.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

TexanOfTheNorth said:

Little Steven said:

The external temp matters more than the internal. You have a minimum of four hours less than 140* surface temp

Minimum? Did you mean maximum?

no- minimum. You can go many hours past that in most situations. 4 hours is the safest of the safe meant for commercial kitchens that have a lot of contamination and serve the public. Your egg is sterile and really has no chance of contaminating your food for many, many hours.

Little Steven

TexanOfTheNorth said:

Little Steven said:

The external temp matters more than the internal. You have a minimum of four hours less than 140* surface temp

Minimum? Did you mean maximum?

No I meant minimum of safe time. They always give you extra. We have seen a lot of this over the years and typically a guy has the egg stable, puts the meat on, watches it for a few hours and goes to bed. He gets up say 7 hours later and finds the fire has choked out. The important thing is to try figure out how long the internal temp of the egg was below 140. Most people use salt on a long cook or a salty rub. Salt is a natural preservative and smoke is also. The bacterial growth on the surface of the meat is what you have to worry about and with the aforementioned and the fact that a hot egg is an inhospitable environment for bacteria in the first place the 4 hour rule is a minimum. That said, it's not me that is eating it.

TexanOfTheNorth

@Little_Steven, thanks for the clarification!

Black_Badger

I'm with Cen-Tex, Cook it, eat it, enjoy it. Happened before, will happen again...

B_B

GA_Dawgs

Agreed, fire it back up and enjoy it tonight.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Egginole said:

Thanks! Started at 10pm - left it at 12:30 am - dome 225. Of course the one day the kids sleep late and woke me up at 7 was when I found the fire out, dome temp not registered and internal temp at 90. Yes, 7am is late for our kids.

225 dome is too low. You are at serious risk of your fire going out unless you are a fire building pro. I still don't risk it. I find that 250-260 is the sweet spot for stable all night fires. 225 dome is like 210-215 grid. That adds many un-needed hours to your cook. 250 dome is around 235-240 grid which is right in the sweet spot if you want a true low and slow on your egg. 

Egginole

Great feedback. Learning a lot. Thank you

Black_Badger

Hey Cen-Tex, where do you put your grid? I've been trying to cook everything elevated ever since getting the CGS rig, but I'm curious if that throws off my dome/grid temp estimates.

Cheers -
B_B

gdenby

Egginole,

For future reference, check the gov's Food Safety site. The info is intended for food service, so as to rule out any chance of sickness. Quite strict.

Also, check out an online pathogen modelling site. While most of the projections assume there is contamination, on can check for the predicted growth of various nasties at different temps, pH, salinity, etc.

Little Steven made some very good points about how the salt and smoke keep the food from being contaminated. That surely adds some to the safety interval, although I haven't found any definite info on that.

Also do searches on "Nathan Myhrvold food safety." He made a lot of statements around the time the mega-book "Modernist Cuisine," came out. The book spends about 60 pages discussing food safety. One of the crucial points is that keeping the food safe is both a matter of temperature and time. While the food guidelines always say anything under 140F is a hazard, that is a simplification. If you hold something contaminated w. salmonella, for instance, at 126 for 5 hours, it will be pasteurized. Many cooking environments are not so stable, so 140F is safer because the time to clean is just a few minutes. At 185, everything dies almost instantaneously.

I'd suggest reading up on the matter. I suppose you will become more confident estimating safety issues w. more info.

And as one last thing, sometime ago this issue had come up for the n-th time, and the thread ended around where the question of how food could become contaminated in a cooled Egg. What I subsequently found was that there is a very small chance that animal fecal dust will carry pathogens in the winter, when the cold, damp air, and low light levels do not sterilize the stuff as happens in the summer. Depending on where you were, there may have been a very small chance the brisket became contaminated. Still not likely there would have been a hazardous level of growth.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Black_Badger said:

Hey Cen-Tex, where do you put your grid? I've been trying to cook everything elevated ever since getting the CGS rig, but I'm curious if that throws off my dome/grid temp estimates.

Cheers -
B_B

I put briskets on close to grid/felt level. I have the AR oval combo so I do the stone, the foil drip pan (using the steel ring from CGS) and the brisket just over that.Big briskets won't fit too much over felt level

Black_Badger

Awesome Cen-Tex, thanks. Sounds similar to my set up, but I've been trying to stuff everything as high in the dome as I can. It's rarely easy and sometimes impossible (haha)!

Thanks again, I feel like I've learned a ton from you guys on this site, and CT you're my brisket guru.

Cheers -
B_B

Little Steven

He's my hero too!

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Little Steven said:

He's my hero too!

as it should be.

Little Steven

My life for you :x

shtgunal3

You guys need to "Get a room!"

The Cen-Tex Smoker

shtgunal3 said:

You guys need to "Get a room!"

Don't threaten me with a good time................

Little Steven

If only we were closer ;;)

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Little Steven said:

If only we were closer ;;)

......sigh.......

Too bad the forum does not have video chat

:o3

R2Egg2Q

Black_Badger said:

Hey Cen-Tex, where do you put your grid? I've been trying to cook everything elevated ever since getting the CGS rig, but I'm curious if that throws off my dome/grid temp estimates.

Cheers -
B_B

In my XL, I often cook on two tiers (upper tier about 4 1/2"-5" higher) and I usually find the upper grid temps 10-15 degrees hotter than the lower grid (at the felt level).  When I cook briskets on both grids I'll put the largest (usually 2-3 lbs heavier) on the top and it isn't uncommon for the larger one to finish first due to the higher heat.

How's the restarted brisket progressing @Egginole?

lousubcap

With regard to the BGE and temperatures here's my take on the whole thing as you can wrap yourself around too much info-

•  with indirect ( heat deflector in place) cooks the dome thermo will run about 20-40*F higher than the grate when starting out.  Longer the dome is shut the less the temp difference.  On direct cooks, the grate will get the full measure of heat from the lump and the dome will be lower than the cooking surface.  Raised grid- gets you further from the lump and closer to the dome temp.  You have at least one thermometer to run this BGE with.  Make sure it is calibrated and get comfortable with what the number it gives you means relative to the method you are using to cook. Just an opinion and we all know what those are worth-enjoy the journey!

HogHeaven

Egginole said:

Woke up to cold egg, brisket 90 degree internal temp... is this salvageable? Or did I just create my first story about "The first brisket I cooked on the egg, really didn't cook." What a kick to the groin.

What a bummer... I've worried about my fire going out on an over night cook but, it has never happened... Yet. Go to nekkidwhiz.com and look for an article regarding cooking butts. The guy that wrote that article went into depth about how to fill your fire box with lump to get the best ventilation and lots of cooking time on long, long cooks. If done right you can get up to 24 hours of cooking time without adding lump. When I cooked my last butts I followed his instructions and cooked for 16 hours and still had 25% of my lump left for future use. Just a suggestion. Happy Egging!

wilsonhp

"Your egg is sterile and really has no chance of contaminating your food for many, many hours."

If there is air flow going thru the egg, it is NOT a sterile environment. Outdoors there is mold, bacteria, etc., in the air.

Adhere to safe food handling times and temperatures.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

wilsonhp said:

"Your egg is sterile and really has no chance of contaminating your food for many, many hours."

If there is air flow going thru the egg, it is NOT a sterile environment. Outdoors there is mold, bacteria, etc., in the air.

Adhere to safe food handling times and temperatures.

good point. I still say it's ok to relight and finish the cook, but good point.