Table design strength validation request

Bjorg

Hi Eggers,

                I have designed a table for the XL egg I bought yesterday. I am no expert at google sketchup or carpentry but here is what I came up with:

Google Sketchup plans:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18036404/Table v6 1x4 bottom (4).skp

Pictures for those who dont have the free software: 

Red is the frame blue is the drawer: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18036404/Table v6 1x4 with color coding.png

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18036404/Table v6 1x4 bottom (5).png

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18036404/Table v6 1x4 bottom (4).png

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18036404/non x ray view.png

My issue:

The angled sections under the top table are drawers. The back of the table has a full length 1x6 supporting it, but on the front it only has the section between the legs strongly supported. I did strengthen the table behind the drawers to solidify that side 1x6 but I fear that the table is lacking support on the front exterior edges and that I should forget the drawer Idea. I dont want to be telling people not to lean on the table front corners. Should I go with my gut feeling and forget about the drawers and feel safe about my table or is this design strong enough?

I would of loved to hide my ash tool, grid cleaner, looftlighter and long tools in the drawers instead of hanging them (I will use a tarp and tarping a bbq with stuff hanging on the sides is a pain) 

Further info:

I will use IPE wood (very strong)

I will use Quikrete countertop mix and make a one section 2 inch top slab (3 inch concrete in front and back of the egg with rebar, is that sufficient?)

I will use the egg nest for table from BGE, elevating the egg 2 inches from table. 

The bottom front section of the table is on hinges and will be used for storage (just flip open). The woo2 fits nicely in there.

I will hang some grills under the table sides using SS hooks.

Table will be on casters

Thanks

stike

even without the drawers, those front corners are going to have little support.  the rear is fine, because the strongback at the rear is continuous and can cantilever (stick out like a diving board) well enough withut bending.

the angle complicates the front, too.  hard to make that connection.  even if you could overlap it a bit, by using a 90-degree connection, you'd have a better chance.  but again, that connection is almost impossible to make in wood

you could hide some angle iron or tube steel (1x1 would be more than enough) behind th wood, and that would be ok.

tuck it into or behind each front leg, then cantilever it out to the side.

stike

another thought... make it just deepr enough that you can have one strongback at the very rear, and then one parallel to it, in front and just behind the BGE under the hinge.

they'd be maybe 6 inches apart., both sticking out left and right full width.

they'd act as a bit of a boxed beam if you glued and screwed a 3/4" thick plywood top to them.

again, straightening out the front would allow you to use a face frame of 1x stock that was one piece (even with th  large holes cut in it for the drawers), backed up invisibly by another 3/4" piece of plywood.  those two together (even with the holes cut in them) would mirror the two you'd have at the back.  more than enough strength for that front corner to cantilever out in space like that

limits your top surface to something monolithic though. no tile or open-spaced decking. stone or corian (solid-surfacing)

i'll try a quick sketch

stike

the two in the back carry the rear cantilever ('stick-out').  but they also carry those side pieces, which themselves cantilever forward.  the whole thing stiffened by the plywood.  the face frame is added stiffening.

believe it or not, i framed a very similar roof to this about 20 years ago.  well, designed it, and had the framer do it. haha

no steel.

it was ripped off from the robie house by FLlW.

 

4Runner

My table stinks but functional. Wish I had the know how to do this.

Bjorg

Interesting stike, thanks for the input. How high could I do the cut-in for the drawers? they are currently 4.5 inches high. The 1x6 support is 3/4"x5.5"

I would also have to make an opening for the hinge to have some room to sit and open, or I could just do a circle and raise the egg hinge above table level. 

NightwingXP

Stike you never cease to amaze me!

^:)^

stike

if you doubled-up the 1x face-frame AND 3/4" plywood behind it (glued well), they'd be an inch and a half thick.
assuming you cut the holes cleanly, and given the 3/4" plywood top, and the framing in back and sides, i think your 4-1/2" high holes for the drawer would be 'ok'.

you aren't cantilevering out there that far.  but i'd want it stiff, because someone will lean on it.  glue it all well

Bjorg

Very nice. We are on the same page regarding stiffness. 

Also, with a full 3/4 plywood sheet on top I could do a cast in place concrete countertop with a lip over the plywood edges that would be lighter than the 2 inch concrete slab I had planned to use. 

Thanks again!

I have some redesigning to do.  

cortguitarman

Stick with your 2 inch counter top idea. It looks great in outdoor applications. I was skeptical, but my buddy that made my top talked me into it.

stike

if you do a 2" concrete top, it could be structural itself. being heavier would be irrelvant, because the concrete itself would have to deflect before the wood ever did. 

my garage is roofed with a 6" concrete slab, flat, which spans full width and has a porch on top.

just some welded wire fabric in yours would be enough, but you could add some pencil thin reinforcing.

would also simplify the framing a bit.  you wouldn't need to double up the face frame, because the framing would really only be carrying the drawers and their contents.
you could probably stick with you original design, although the kink still bothers me.  tough to make that connection work. i'm still thinking the face frame in front should be continuous across the whole thing.


edited:  still thinking here...  if you REALLY were set on the kink, you could frame it exactly as you drew it, top it with 3?4 plywood (glued), and the bed the concrete in glue out around the edges.  the concrete would then actually help hold up that outside corner, and the kink connection is taken out of the 'structural' picture...

Bjorg

Made some changes and I will have to remove raise the egg and have the hinge over the table in order to have proper support like you are recommending. Definitely worth it. 

I am far from done yet, but here is how I had thought to handle the front angle edges support (kink): just make the side boards a bit longer (see picture). The drawer face plate would be the angle face (not shown yet). What do you think? Those kinks are not essential but add style and functionality to the table. 

Also, could I spread the back and front double support only 3.5 inches so the interior ones are bolted to the table legs inside edges? Seems to me it would be stronger. Also, spreading front and back support 6 inches apart would require a deeper table to make the egg fit and I do not have the required space on my deck. 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18036404/Table v7.jpg

With such a strong frame, I dont think I would need the top plywood sheet, would I? The 2 inch concrete slab would be glued directly to the frame. I am asking because plywood is not as durable for an outside application as IPE and I would rather do without. I will make another version tonight and post it after. 

Smokin_Trout

Great Look!

Since you're already taking up the space to the sides, why not extend it down to help support and use the area for large storage (plate setter on one side and charcoal on other). It would give you function and support, still allowing you to keep the great look of the angle.

Are you putting in a drawer under the egg base?

Bjorg

Thanks Smokin_Trout. 

I like the look of the top larger than the base, it makes the table unique and allows hanging hot grills under the table. Other reason is that I like hidden storage and didnt want a cabinet look. 

I was going to put a drawer under the egg base, but the woo2 combo is to large to fit if I put boards inside the legs for drawer rail support, so I just did a front panel on hinges that will flip open, creating a big box for storing stones, woo2 and the like. I will use woo2 and stone combo instead of platesetter. 

Smokin_Trout

I would go with Stikes idea of the 1x1 tubing, buried in the concrete top. Throw in a stud or tapped hole on each end to mount your side support.

Bjorg

I ditched the top drawer idea. I have made a design for a table much stronger thanks to stike tips. I can now have a big enough drawer on the bottom. I will go with the 2 inch concrete slab with notch to lower the egg. 

I will compensate the lack of top drawers with some shelving i can put under the sides. I will post the plans when I am done. Thanks for the tips guys. 

stike

i still think you could do the drawrs, but make it easy on yourself too!

Bjorg

This will be my first wood building project and I want to feel safe about my table. I am sure your are right and that it is doable though. I am also glad to have a real drawer for the bottom part so Its all good. Cant wait to get started on building it as I spent way to much time designing it lol.  

stike

all the real work is in the design


you'll do fine