Injection question

clemsontyger97 · May 2016

I've read enough on here to know there are definitely two camps on the injection preference, but one thing I haven't seen is whether or not there's any safety concern in doing so. There's another smoking forum I've come across a couple of times when Googling certain things, and one user in particular is adamant about not injecting not because of anything to do with flavor or moisture, but because of the necessity to ensure the meat gets past 135-140 within 4 hours.

I'm doing a turbo butt Sat and thinking about injecting for the first time just to see what (if any) difference I notice, so the 135-140 IT won't be an issue. But for low and slow then it could. For those who do inject, has this ever been an issue with a low & slow?

smokeyw · May 2016

I have never heard this. But I will say that I have never seen any difference in cooking time if the meat is injected or not. Have at it!

SPRIGS · May 2016

smokeyw said:

I have never heard this. But I will say that I have never seen any difference in cooking time if the meat is injected or not. Have at it!

Me neither.

fishlessman · May 2016

i inject well after the 140 internal temp so no problem. the only thing i inject cold is already cooked ham. was never a safety issue for me, just something i do, inject between 160 and180 internal

people on this forum were injecting and smoking at 220 dome years ago, i know for a fact the internals did not reach 140 for the first 6 to 8 hours, its probably pretty close now that we do these 250 plus at grate temps, close enough i wouldnt have a problem with it

clemsontyger97 · May 2016

fishlessman said:

i inject well after the 140 internal temp so no problem. the only thing i inject cold is already cooked ham. was never a safety issue for me, just something i do, inject between 160 and180 internal people on this forum were injecting and smoking at 220 dome years ago, i know for a fact the internals did not reach 140 for the first 6 to 8 hours, its probably pretty close now that we do these 250 plus at grate temps, close enough i wouldnt have a problem with it

Yea I've seen your technique referenced on Playing with Smoke and Fire blog, which probably the way I'm going to go. Was just curious about early injection though because I'd never heard of that before anywhere else except that one site.

YukonRon · May 2016

On a brisket at 160F IT then wrap.

stompbox · May 2016

This sounds like nonsense to me.... I inject butts cold all the time before I put them on the grill.

How does one hypothesis that the injection keeps it cooler? because you are adding more mass or volume? How is that different than buying a butt that is .25 pound heavier?

.25 might even be a stretch, as much that shoots out of it when I inject and as much of it that runs out on my grease pan, I'd say we are talking about a very insignificant impact to weight let alone cook time.

dougcrann · May 2016

I have spoken with an FDA inspector about that whole 40-140 in 4 claim. His "unofficial" thoughts...it is a CYA thing for the food industry. He told me that food joints need some sort of protection in the end entry of someone with a weakened immune system eating at their establishment and getting sick. Sort of buy it sort of dont. I ALWAYS put the meat on the smoker, when the lid is still open wipe the temperature probe with an alcohol pad and stick the probe in. Granted I have only been doing this for a couple years but my wifes immune system is in the crapper...and she has never gotten sick.

dougcrann · May 2016

I frequent another bbq site. This discussion has been "beat to death" over there.

clemsontyger97 · May 2016

dougcrann said:

I frequent another bbq site. This discussion has been "beat to death" over there.

That's most likely the same one where I first read this being debated. @stompbox as the theory goes, it's not that the injection keeps it any cooler, it's that you are creating an entry point for bacteria from the surface into the meat, which then must pass that magical 140ish range within 4 hours. By that logic any insertion, even a temp probe, would create the same issue. My assumption before even posting was that with all the injection posts I've seen without having this brought up there must not be too much to be concerned about.

stompbox · May 2016

clemsontyger97 said:

dougcrann said:

I frequent another bbq site. This discussion has been "beat to death" over there.

That's most likely the same one where I first read this being debated. @stompbox as the theory goes, it's not that the injection keeps it any cooler, it's that you are creating an entry point for bacteria from the surface into the meat, which then must pass that magical 140ish range within 4 hours. By that logic any insertion, even a temp probe, would create the same issue. My assumption before even posting was that with all the injection posts I've seen without having this brought up there must not be too much to be concerned about.

oy vey. I am not worried about that in the least. The injection hole is nearly sealed back up once the needle is pulled back out, thus protected from the outside environment. I would guess that Cider Vinegar, without really knowing, also has some bacteria killing properties of its own. That stuff is pretty potent.

bgebrent · May 2016

stompbox said:

clemsontyger97 said:

dougcrann said:

I frequent another bbq site. This discussion has been "beat to death" over there.

That's most likely the same one where I first read this being debated. @stompbox as the theory goes, it's not that the injection keeps it any cooler, it's that you are creating an entry point for bacteria from the surface into the meat, which then must pass that magical 140ish range within 4 hours. By that logic any insertion, even a temp probe, would create the same issue. My assumption before even posting was that with all the injection posts I've seen without having this brought up there must not be too much to be concerned about.

oy vey. I am not worried about that in the least. The injection hole is nearly sealed back up once the needle is pulled back out, thus protected from the outside environment. I would guess that Cider Vinegar, without really knowing, also has some bacteria killing properties of its own. That stuff is pretty potent.

I wouldn't be too worried either. However, whether the hole "seals" or not is not pertinent. It's the injection needle carrying microbes into the meat. This is very plausible. Vinegar is bacteriostatic, not bacteriocidal. It impairs bacterial growth but does not kill bacteria. Just so you know. It is a theoretical risk when injecting cold.

Injection question

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